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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 12:48:30 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Dbg. You mentioned you make 8.50 an hour. Perhaps if you stop playing a victim and whining about what your employer require of you, you may find yourself in a situation to better your position. You can think of it this way. If your irresponsibility of driving carelessly you could have a different position from what I understand. So maybe you should look at this as the consequences of you actions puts you in a position where you get less sleep once a month. Instead of blaming the company and try and place liability on them when the liability is YOURS. That's what you aren't getting. If you get in a car and feel you shouldn't be driving then the responsibility is yours period. What you are saying is any company that mandates it's employees to come to work are liable. BS. If you aren't on the clock, YOU are responsible for your decision to drive. No one else. You know what the company expects of all it's employees. The company doesnt make anyone break the law as it doesn't mandate how you get there. It simple says you need to be there.

Angel


This is it exactly. If you are too tired to drive, take a bus or have someone drive you.  Saying they are putting you at risk is laughable.

Other people have pointed a lot of things out so I won't repeat myself.  A lot of people are looking for jobs right now.  You don't want to be the "problem employee" that your bosses talk about in meetings and are just waiting for the right time to let you go.  They have to conduct these meetings, and someone is going to be inconvenienced.  You aren't the only person in the world that has been desperate for sleep but had to do something for the job.   If you don't think they treat you right, your option is to get another job and quit.

As someone who has been in management, every group of employees has a culture, and there are always the whiners.  The whiners do an ok job, but they will never get promoted over the "can do" employees.  If you were a boss, how would you evaluate these kinds of employees?  What's worse is that the whiners complain to other employees and can create unnecessary drama. 

If you don't like your work culture, start your own company.  I hated a lot of things that my managers did.  I kept my mouth shut and worked my ass off.  I've worked my share of 24 hour shifts with no added pay.  I've sacrificed personal time and always did it with a positive attitude. I was raised with a high work ethic and pride in that hard work.  When I got to the point that I was sick of the politics and BS upper management pulled, I left and started my own company.  Now that I manage other people, I see what they were dealing with.

I get the feeling that if it were not the inconvenience of the monthly meeting, it would be something else you'd find to complain about. 

Akasha


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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 12:50:06 PM   
PyrotheClown


Posts: 1950
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I guess you could always start your own company. Then you could set the rules.

Oh god, you'd think that'd be the case

but coming from personal experience, it's pretty much like lubing your ass real nice, getting ready to be raped by life lol

Owning your own business means no paid vacation

but mostly no pay, or vacation

Especially if it's something you love doing, it's doomed to give you financial grief for the rest of your career
Find something you hate and it'll probably be a moderately "successful" soul sucking career.



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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 12:56:36 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

You seriously need to grow up.

~stef



There's currently no known cure for NPD, but a trained psychologist or psychiatrist can help you with behavior modification so you quit coming across the way you so often do in your posts.


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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 1:43:57 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

If you get in a car and feel you shouldn't be driving then the responsibility is yours period. What you are saying is any company that mandates it's employees to come to work are liable. BS. If you aren't on the clock, YOU are responsible for your decision to drive. No one else. You know what the company expects of all it's employees. The company doesnt make anyone break the law as it doesn't mandate how you get there. It simple says you need to be there.

Angel


No, I'm saying any company that deliberately mandates employees to adhere to a schedule that keeps them from getting adequate sleep which makes them a danger to themselves and others on the road should be liable. People who go out and drink without first finding a designated driver plus a back-up plan are 100% responsible for their actions. It's not the same as a tired employee who can't find a ride to an out of town meeting. People don't get fired for refusing to go out and get drunk. Drinking alcohol isn't a survival requirement. Employment is.


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Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 1:48:20 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Save yourself the trouble.  Sleep in the car.

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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 2:27:32 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		Your options are:
1. get another job
2. deal with it (and stop complaining)
3. try to fix it

There were some good ideas here. I suggest you review the posts, see what you can use, and draft a letter to management. I personally like my idea of every other month the meeting be at the end of your shift.

KK

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 2:35:59 PM   
kyohei


Posts: 1
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline 		As a bartender I know of ones that have been sued because of givin out to meny drinks to customers causeing a drunk driver so if they can be sued for something that is not there fault then a company can be held responceble as well . I know the girl that works this job and she works hard and this meetings are the same shit that is said and the comapany needs to be fair to all employees that work for them. Theres 3 of us in the house I used roomies other profile cause mine s screwed up

< Message edited by kyohei -- 12/27/2010 3:14:12 PM >

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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 2:52:03 PM   
DefiantSpankalot


Posts: 10
Joined: 5/13/2008
Status: offline 		My sub almost fell asleep several times when I was working and could not take her. It is very hard to sleep days in our neighborhood. When she goes to work she has to do her job plus catch up everyone elses - backed up laundry, rewashing dishes put away dirty, cleaning food stuck to table and floor that others fail to clean. She does everyones job and never gets enough sleep.

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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 3:13:31 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

It is very hard to sleep days in our neighborhood.


Earplugs
Room darkening shades
sleep mask (or blindfold)
melatonin

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 3:20:21 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
I think the laws are specific for certain jobs such as truckers and medical professions and if you belong to a union or not.


The drag about working at a company with a labor union is that it makes management much more adversarial. They'll deny you whatever they like and make you grieve it. If they lose no biggie - they had to do it anyway. If they win they are ahead. My last job was non union and we were treated better and with more respect than my current union based company treats us. I think the asshats at the CWA actually have made things worse over the long run.




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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 3:44:00 PM   
January


Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline 		I see defiant's brought in the big guns. I do think the company requiring the night shift folk to come to the meeting is unfair. But life--and adulthood--is full of unfairness. The meetings will mess up somebody--always.

I don't think your telling us about defiant's household duties is really relevant here. She works part time. (I worked my way through college as a nurse's aide in a nursing home (7-3:30), working 3 days a week. I often did double shifts, and never got to sit around. I even walked to and from work because we couldn't afford a car. I never complained because that was tuition I was earning.)

Defiant does not have kids. She does not go to college. Her job is not exhausting, it's pretty well the same as sitting around on one long break.

And she shoots down every idea presented to her on this forum. There were a lot of good suggestions here. We don't know her situation-- like is there a bus she can take? Can her roomies drive her? Can she drink coffee that one time per month? Why does she not realize that her own bad driving record lead her to this situation? Why would she think she's being safer to drive faster? That's nuts! Why would curvature of the spine mean she can't sleep in a car? I know plenty of people with this malady who don't use it as an excuse, constantly. (For more drugs, for special treatment... etc...)

January

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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 3:55:40 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DefiantSpankalot

My sub almost fell asleep several times when I was working and could not take her. It is very hard to sleep days in our neighborhood. When she goes to work she has to do her job plus catch up everyone elses - backed up laundry, rewashing dishes put away dirty, cleaning food stuck to table and floor that others fail to clean. She does everyones job and never gets enough sleep.


Like it or not: this is her job until she has another one. It can be damned hard to sleep during the day. I could never work a steady graveyard shift for that reason. But it is her job. Neither of you have to like it but you need to make the best out of it and find ways of maximizing her sleep time.

dfb:As for the rest, it is part and parcel with a job I am all too familiar with. My suggestion regarding the dirty dishes is to write in the log book (or whatever your procedure is) that the automatic dishwasher seems to not be working well as you have had to rewash dishes that weren't put away clean. That way the responsibility is not on the co-workers but on the equipment. If there is nothing wrong with said dishwasher that will be discovered soon enough.

My other suggestion is to start being grateful to said coworkers every single time they do a part of their jobs that makes yours easier. People are more apt to do a little extra when they know someone is appreciative of it.

edit: spelling

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 12/27/2010 4:02:41 PM >

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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 4:00:52 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

There's currently no known cure for NPD, but a trained psychologist or psychiatrist can help you with behavior modification so you quit coming across the way you so often do in your posts.

There's currently no known cure for abject stupidity, and therapy isn't likely to help with that so you're just plain fucked.

I'm coming across exactly as I intend to, and thinking that you're a brainless whiner isn't exactly an indication of NPD.  I hope you're better at emptying bedpans than you are at making psychiatric diagnoses but I'm not holding out much hope of that.

~stef


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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 4:01:21 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: January

I see defiant's brought in the big guns. I do think the company requiring the night shift folk to come to the meeting is unfair. But life--and adulthood--is full of unfairness. The meetings will mess up somebody--always.

I don't think your telling us about defiant's household duties is really relevant here. She works part time. (I worked my way through college as a nurse's aide in a nursing home (7-3:30), working 3 days a week. I often did double shifts, and never got to sit around. I even walked to and from work because we couldn't afford a car. I never complained because that was tuition I was earning.)

Defiant does not have kids. She does not go to college. Her job is not exhausting, it's pretty well the same as sitting around on one long break.


January


The household duties described were not the ones she does at home but rather the ones she does on the job.
Having worked that shift as fill for 3 different agencies, I can pretty much tell you that my experience was that it was not sitting around on one long break. YMMV.



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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 4:03:16 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		At My last job in GA, I knew a woman who had worked for the same company for over twenty-five years.  During the course of that time, she worked a schedule of four twelve hour shifts over the course of four weeks.  Three twelve hour shifts the following four.  Weeks alternated between days and nights.  It was no sit on your tail kind of work, either.  It was physical labor.  Over those twenty-five years, she managed to raise five children on her own, as well as her elderly mother in her later years.  Every doctor appointment, children or mother's illness, or need of her household was her responsibility.  Had she only ever lost sleep one time a month, it probably would have been a vacation for her.

If a little old lady from GA can do all that, certainly a couple of hours of lost sleep can be managed.


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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 4:27:25 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DefiantSpankalot

My sub almost fell asleep several times when I was working and could not take her. It is very hard to sleep days in our neighborhood. When she goes to work she has to do her job plus catch up everyone elses - backed up laundry, rewashing dishes put away dirty, cleaning food stuck to table and floor that others fail to clean. She does everyones job and never gets enough sleep.


Well, man up and support her well enough that she can quit, or beat her ass for whining..........take charge already!

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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 4:45:08 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

AngelikaJ, I'm impressed with your understanding of what workers go through and the post you copied wasn't directed at you. Considering the post I was responding to and the snide comment about psych evaluations, I have to disagree that I took it too far. I can't stand people who lack a conscience and I have a habit of calling them on it. You are certainly not one of those people. My situation will likely be resolved soon. I consider others to be victims far more than I do myself. I'm particularly concerned about SpiritedRadiance's situation since she said she goes through it every week. Employers shouldn't have the power to force employees to choose between breaking the law and keeping their jobs. Since jobs are necessary for most people to survive, employees in this situation are being forced to break the law.



Listen defiant, most employers that own their own businesses do not have the luxury of days off, we are the ones that are hustling for work and contracts and clients to keep our employees employed. I can't tell you how many times in either company that I co-own, especially my man's, that either he or I have gotten a call at 4 a.m. to go down to the peir because a boat carrying 30k worth of herring is in hours early and needs to unload now. Or they (the draggers) miss they deadline in the afternoon to unload so we have to wait for hours until the federally mandated allowable time to enter the bay approaches which sucks and makes for a 18 hour time sometimes. Time is money, so off we go on 3 or 4 hours of sleep to keep things going so our employees have work. Or in my other company that I run for my exhusband, when I need to close deals on Sunday nights or holidays or when the fuck the client can meet so that my crew can have work to go to to build these houses and commercial buildings and have a goddamn paycheck. So If I call them in for a Saturday meeting they can suck it and show up or they can work elsewhere bacause I am out there procuring work so they have jobs.

Owning the company is a thankless job a lot of times and as far as the bottom line, the past 2 years I would have been better off to lay off people, stop busting my ass to keep everyone working, and rode out the storm. Thankfully I have good hardworking employees that understand it isn't always fun and not one of them would whine about a once a month meeting and that is why I feel morally obligated to take less of a bottom line, if any at times this year, to keep good honest hard working people working. I am grateful to them, even more so when I read crap like this.

Your attitude is just embarrassing. I worked in the restaurant business for years and many mornings had meetings after getting out of work bartending at 2 or 3 a.m. to show up for an UNPAID mandatory morning meetnig. My boss would have laughed if I complained. Then replaced me.

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RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 4:47:29 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

It is very hard to sleep days in our neighborhood.


Earplugs
Room darkening shades
sleep mask (or blindfold)
melatonin



Valium. .

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 4:53:51 PM   
InControl754


Posts: 38
Joined: 12/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

You're right. I looked it up. A person is required to have 10 consecutive hours off only after working 14 hours or more. Since my shifts are 10 hours, this doesn't apply in my case. It should be illegal though since meetings at the corporate office are out of town. Driving while sleep deprived can lead to legal problems if one gets in a car accident as it's considered reckless driving.


If you feel you are putting yourself in danger, have you considered taking a half or full day off the day after the meeting? 

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Is there a law on length of time between shifts? - 12/27/2010 4:54:06 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Sir just went to work so since he can't answer you I (defiantbadgirl) will. Although this doesn't pertain to the subject of the thread, Sir is right about me having to clean up after co-workers at my location. I assure you catching everything up does not leave me time to sit around on one long break the entire night. Sleeping in a car for several hours when one is prone to a pinched sciatic nerve is a very bad idea. The level of pain from the muscle spasms caused by a pinched sciatic nerve is comparable to childbirth without an epidural. As someone who experienced both, I know for a fact I'm not exaggerating (yes that means you're wrong about me not having kids). Both Sir and our roommate do give me rides whenever they can. Most of the time, they can't take me both to and from work and to and from meetings because they're at work. Everyone who lives in our house works. According to our roommate, bartenders can be sued. If bartenders can be held responsible for serving too many drinks to someone, why can't employers? Nobody can be fired for refusing to get drunk, but employees can be fired for refusing to go to a meeting if they can't get a ride and are too tired to drive. While exhaustion and intoxication have similar effects on driving, alcohol is for recreatonal purposes and employment is necessary for survival.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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(in reply to January)
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