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RE: Overly Independent Master? - 12/31/2010 1:49:31 PM   
ThundersCry


Posts: 892
Status: offline 		I liked LadyPact post...

I have been independent most my life LOL

However I can see, how LadyPact says in a very different way...now.

Why deny on the pleasure of.....serving.

Maybe Im a lil stubborn to -L-

Good luck

(in reply to SignaFerte)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 12/31/2010 8:53:46 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SignaFerte

I very recently acquired a cute new toy, who is extremely service-oriented. Problem is, outside of play, I am fiercely independent and generally enjoy being so.

I don't have a problem asking her to do things, I just prefer to do overall things like laundry, shopping, cooking, by myself. However I can tell that by not asking her to do these things, or even allowing her to, she's a little confused and perhaps hurt.

Any suggestions/strategies you might have to deal with this is appreciated.



I can relate....

Been a coupla decades since my first experience of a D/s relationship and there are still times I get conflicted between being Dom vs gentleman vs alround independent individual. And when Dom is conflicted, poor lil sub is left in a vacuum of confusion - been there; done that (all too often....)

And the magic solution/elixir/pill is.....???? Hmmm, still workin' on it; sorry.

What I have come up with is an old but reliable chestnut - *communication*. That and learning to be comfortable with who *I* am. I still have trouble sending the girl to the kitchen to fetch me a drink (for eg). The gentleman in me tends to react before I've thought it through and I usually ask her if she also wants, mid stride. Worse, for times when a relationship wasn't live-in and I'm visiting her etc, that I'll ask her if she minds if I fetch myself a drink.... <sigh>

Yep, I know, appreciate and have certainly experienced a sub's disappointment when I've done for myself or technically served her.... It's just who I am and I've learnt to make it a specific topic of *MUST HAVE* discussions with my submissive. Even today; I'm more comfortable ordering my girl to kneel and suck my cock than I am ordering her to boil the jug or turn a light on. The latter is comparatively so damned awkward and plain unnatural.

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to SignaFerte)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 12/31/2010 9:11:36 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Like sexyred, I am extremely confused as to why you started a relationship with a service oriented sub when you knew you didn't want any service. Because it seems as if you aren't very compatible.


Whoa, looky here - I'm borderline threatening to disagree with you here, Celeste. Up to a point... lol

It's a matter of perspective and geography, I s'pose. They tell me there are more people in New York than in all of Oz combined - which is almost the same area of mainland USA (excl Alaska). That means fem/subs (and presumably Doms, too) aren't so easy to find in your "own back yard". So yeah, we aren't so quick to spring the "incompatible trapdoor" and keep looking.

And maybe the OP is in the same boat, at least as an individual; that finding *any* complementing (fem/sub) partner isn't just a matter of pulling another name out of a hat. Not meaning to be sarcastic or flippant, btw.

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 12/31/2010 10:52:31 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Like sexyred, I am extremely confused as to why you started a relationship with a service oriented sub when you knew you didn't want any service. Because it seems as if you aren't very compatible.


It's a matter of perspective and geography, I s'pose. They tell me there are more people in New York than in all of Oz combined - which is almost the same area of mainland USA (excl Alaska). That means fem/subs (and presumably Doms, too) aren't so easy to find in your "own back yard". So yeah, we aren't so quick to spring the "incompatible trapdoor" and keep looking.


Yeah, but it's enormously depressing (at least to me) when a Dom wants to be with me because I'm the only one that he got to respond, rather than because we're totally compatible. I know, I know, separate issue, but still - don't think it's a hugely positive thing for either side of the kneel when Doms are compromising because they don't have many options.

OP, I think you're being a control freak. Let it go, and if you can't, definitely let your sub go so she can go serve someone who wants her and makes her feel good about being service-oriented. I am soooo not service-oriented, and sometimes wish I was. Any sub who loves helping out should be treasured for the gem he/she is.

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 1/1/2011 12:33:24 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		i have to agree with jujubee -- people only get into these relationships for SOME kind of fulfillment (everyone's ideal is different but there IS something we all want from this), and if you aren't able to fulfill each other, maybe it would be best if you let her go, so that she could find someone who DOES want a service-oriented sub.

it IS disheartening when a man only responds to you because you're the only thing he could get, rather than genuinely being interested in a mutually fulfilling relationship with you. if you're feeling bad because you don't want a service sub, and she's feeling bad because you don't want a service sub, then maybe it's time to part ways...?

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 1/1/2011 6:43:59 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		The "Man" wont admit to wanting her only because she was the only one to respond... until he has another fish on the hook.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 1/1/2011 9:50:01 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB
Yeah, but it's enormously depressing (at least to me) when a Dom wants to be with me because I'm the only one that he got to respond, rather than because we're totally compatible.

I don't know about everyone else, but to me, the land of "totally compatible" must be right next to Santa's workshop and wherever the easter bunny paints all those eggs. In my experience, every single person I've run across in my entire life has been some sort of series of compromises. I was faced with trying to sort it out and make a decision. It is very easy for me to imagine getting into a relationship where the fit is less than perfect. That would describe every single relationship I've ever been in. When I picked Carol, there were other women in the running. Some of those women were a better fit for me in some ways than Carol. In the end, my pick was my pick. Compromises and all, she's not my "second choice". She's the one wearing my wedding ring.

For me, compatibility is more a state of mind than a state of being. Carol and I are compatible because we make ourselves that way each and every day via a ton of tiny little decisions. The only magical compatibility we had was when we started was the desire to be compatible along with some basic interpersonal chemistry stuff.

One final point. I can't be the only one here that actually cares about constructing life long relationships. So honestly, when I look at a partner, I'm envisioning DECADES AND DECADES of change happening. I'm trying to see if I can envision a relationship with this person that can span a lifetime. Honestly, if the relationship between these two can't handle "She wants to fold the socks and he likes doing it himself." then we're all wasting bits on the internet even responding to the OP.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to jujubeeMB)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 1/1/2011 9:59:05 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		i guess it depends on what things you feel "necessary" to your happiness at any given time. certainly those things change, but no one is more right or more wrong for saying "a service relationship makes me happy, and a relationship where i can't serve makes me sad." people have rights to their feelings.
i know for myself, i'm trying to find a long-term relationship with service aspects, and i have been actively trying to avoid people who i feel only want to use me for playtime. i think relationships are about a lot more than that.
but no one is more right or more wrong.

i guess another question to ask would be "how long have they been involved" -- if they're just starting out, there are bound to be some rough patches. but if it's been going on for a while with no headway, then compromise probably isn't working.

i am also confused by someone who doesn't WANT service getting involved with a service-oriented sub. my own late M was a very independent guy, but he also liked having a helper. he's the one who really helped me realize i LIKED service. but i can't imagine we'd have gotten along very well if he didn't want service sometimes because i probably would've just annoyed him. =p

"TOTAL" compatibility IS possible -- like you said, you and your partner are compatible because you make a conscious effort to BE so -- that is possible in life. i experienced total compatibility with M because the longevity of our relationship was important to both of us; we were compatible in our desire to make ourselves compatible. =p if he hadn't died, i'm sure we'd still be together, because it was a real commitment for both of us. it takes work on both sides, and compromise on both sides (yeah, even in power exchange).
but sometimes someone really isn't going to be a good fit for you, and keeping them attached to you is unfulfilling and uncomfortable for both of you. we are not capable of having long-term relationships with every Tom, Dick, and Harry we meet on the street, because we each have core values that may differ from each other.

< Message edited by LillyBoPeep -- 1/1/2011 10:00:47 AM >

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 1/1/2011 10:50:47 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
no one is more right or more wrong for saying "a service relationship makes me happy, and a relationship where i can't serve makes me sad." people have rights to their feelings.
This is indisputably true. But what I'm baffled at is the insistence towards negativity... yet again. In my head, I assumed that there were about 2 billion reasons why these two liked each other (hence they are together as a couple) and this one area of problem that the OP wanted some input on. But when I read this thread, it's as if there was exactly and only one way to evaluate the partner and that way was a mismatch.

When I laughed with Carol about this thread, her answer to "Why would a top want a service sub?" was, "Duh... because he likes her?"


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 1/1/2011 11:00:10 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		i dunno, i guess for me, if i feel i have to change someone fundamentally in order to really like them, then why exactly do i like them?

you can LIKE someone plenty, but still not work out in a relationship. how many people get divorced saying "we're better as friends than as husband and wife."
i don't always think simply liking someone is reason enough for a relationship to survive. it takes a lot more than that.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 1/1/2011 11:35:25 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		But again, the OP didn't talk about needing to change anyone totally. There was ONE area of contention mentioned. For them, the whole "doomed due to incompatibility" line of reasoning is just ludicrous... it's a house of cards built upon one flimsy card.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 1/1/2011 11:42:25 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		well that's why i am asking -- what defines a core need, and is this a core need for the submissive? what is necessary for this person to determine happiness? for many submissives it is a core need.
so if you're changing a core aspect of someone, why did you like them in the first place? (unless, of course, she already signed up for that -- some people do in O/p relationships.)

i don't think there's anything wrong with considering "maybe we aren't right for each other" -- i think it would be helpful for them to both take an honest look at the relationship, find the pros, cons, strengths and weaknesses -- be honest about this with each other and figure it out. just about any relationship you look at has hit this bump -- there is NOTHING wrong or ludicrous about taking an honest look at it.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 1/1/2011 12:12:01 PM   
RDa


Posts: 14
Joined: 6/15/2004
Status: offline 		Focus, of the many thoughtful and reasonable posts here, yours rings truest to me.  When two parties fall into the 'you dom, me sub' thing, it seems to me that if it's comfortable for both there's no contradiction if the dom feels like doing nice things for his sub.  Where is it written that the sub stands athwart some list of services that the dom may not invade?  If both parties are comfortable and both understand their basic orientation why should it require constant demonstration?  I'm not eat up with 'protocol.'


(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 1/1/2011 2:55:39 PM   
Twoshoes


Posts: 1218
Joined: 7/27/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
I don't know about everyone else, but to me, the land of "totally compatible" must be right next to Santa's workshop and wherever the easter bunny paints all those eggs.

Are you referring to the Canadian Arctic tundra? It's where all childhood dreams get safely stored away, where no one can ever get to them. (Or so I've heard.)

quote:


In my experience, every single person I've run across in my entire life has been some sort of series of compromises. I was faced with trying to sort it out and make a decision. It is very easy for me to imagine getting into a relationship where the fit is less than perfect. That would describe every single relationship I've ever been in.


True but untrue. While, I agree you'll always have compromises, I'll also disagree: two people can be very, very compatible. There are two ways we can adapt to someone else's distinct personality: by expressing a part of ourselves MORE or repressing a part of ourselves. I also believe that two "complete" people make a better couple, but they can also enhance each other further. (Which is why when looking, I recommend striving to be a more "complete" person, rather than trying to be "perfect" or trying to convince someone else to be compatible with you.)

quote:


For me, compatibility is more a state of mind than a state of being. Carol and I are compatible because we make ourselves that way each and every day via a ton of tiny little decisions. The only magical compatibility we had was when we started was the desire to be compatible along with some basic interpersonal chemistry stuff.

Well, that's certainly the way to make it work. On the other hand, for people who are looking, I recommend picking someone where the adjustments are more often welcome and pleasant rather than difficult and cumbersome.

For example, I value and enjoy being outgoing, but I'm more likely to end up having a quieter night with people I know well. However, whenever I'm close to someone really outgoing, I end up meeting lots of new people, have a great time and usually make myself look ridiculous. (I love attention, although I'll deny it if questioned. )

I'm fairly independent myself, so while I know I have to try to involve the other person in what I'm doing, dealing with a service-oriented sub seems like a tedious chore for me.

Disclaimer: This compatibility stuff is simply the workings of privileged idealists, who tend to romanticize everything and anything in life and have never had to worry about anything practical. (I might be one of those people. )

quote:


One final point. I can't be the only one here that actually cares about constructing life long relationships.

Yeah, sure, right about till the time I see a ravishing pencil skirt...  

In all seriousness, I have really good intuition, so it's pretty clear to me that not all relationships are necessarily destined for the "life long" category, even if that's what I ultimately desire. I don't believe in making empty promises (or declarations of love unending), just because that's what the other person wants. My feelings don't make me blind, thoughtless or unethical.

E: spelling

< Message edited by Twoshoes -- 1/1/2011 3:10:46 PM >

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 1/1/2011 6:58:07 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		When you are new to someone, there's quite a period of finding out about each other and adjustments are mostly made on the hoof. That's the same in any relationship.

Speaking entirely for myself.....I don't want M to be *allowing* me to do stuff that he'd rather be doing himself.

I'm pretty anal about some things myself, and I know what machinations I go through when I have to sit back and *let* someone do certain things for me. But sometimes it's really just the nice thing to do. (Like letting the children make me a tea when they are obviously wanting to do something sweet for me, or letting my Dad fix the doorhandle that doesn't bother me and I couldn't care less about)

It's not so much the *serving* bit, but the fact that MOST people have things they'd rather just take care of themselves. I'd rather do something that he genuinely wants me to do (if I have to do anything). I wouldn't be too chuffed if he wanted to do my make-up or blow-dry my hair......I can think of TONS of things I would be over the moon for him to do, without letting go of the odd bit I'd rather do myself.

With people like my children, or my Dad, that's fine, I do lots for them and they want to reciprocate in some way. I *let* them, because its generous to do that.

But with M, I couldn't live that way........we both want to be doing what makes us genuinely comfortable and genuinely helpful because if he'd just spent an hour faffing about with my car or PC , just to find I'd rather have done it myself, he'd be hacked off. And ditto in reverse. It could happen in the short-term..but sooner or later it'd be obvious if he was giving me *stuff* to do, just to make me *feel* nice or worthwhile. I'd actually rather BE nice and worthwhile.

But these are things you find out further down the line. Sometimes it's the best thing to *bend*, it's worth it to do so and makes you feel good..Other times, with other people, it isn't.......finding out which things you can contentedly *bend* about, and with whom, takes time and a bit of trial and error.

agirl







(in reply to SignaFerte)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 1/2/2011 3:03:06 AM   
CherryNeko


Posts: 330
Joined: 12/29/2010
From: Mexico City
Status: offline 		Well, I think you have to give her something to do. Some people are seriously submissive and dedicated and it would be somewhat insensible on your part. As a Dominant, you are served and have to share with her your life. She is dedicating her life to you isn't she. Just include her in some activities so that she feels she is getting something back.
However, Master says she will understand better if you tell her the truth and explain that the fact that you are possessive with your chores does not mean that your affection for her has changed.

_____________________________

How many mornings do we have
Before this night ends?
I'm dying surrounded by white flowers
Which scatter in the sky...

(in reply to SignaFerte)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 1/9/2011 8:42:41 AM   
txurinal


Posts: 209
Joined: 9/26/2009
Status: offline 		A slave is there to serve its MASTER. A good slave will learn what its MASTER needs and wants or does not need and want. A good slave will learn when a MASTER needs HIS space.

When owned, my MASTERS sometimes wanted time to themselves. After all THEY were a couple, i was a slave. At these times i was usually locked in my room where i could spend time reading (i was not allowed to watch TV). Since my time when home was constantly spent "doing", i rather enjoyed these quiet times. YOUR slave will learn what YOU want in time and will serve YOU better by adapting and puttingYOUR needs first

(in reply to CherryNeko)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Overly Independent Master? - 1/9/2011 9:32:29 AM   
Jaybeee


Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		Had this prob myself with my slave. Best way around is to realise, first of all, that you can get MORE done with two pairs of hands, eyes etc, than one.

Approach the issue as if it were a work situation, do a SWOT (Strength/Weakness/Opportunities/Threats) analysis on her, then identify recurring, mundane tasks that you can hive off to her. My own slave is particularly good at research, I've taught her how to Google using +/-"" etc, so if I need something looked up, I get her to do it.

Great timesaver!!

_____________________________

Mastery in motion since 2005

Women of the world, submit!

(in reply to SomoneReal)
Profile   Post #: 38
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