RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (Full Version)

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Nosathro -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 11:40:32 AM)

Yes heroin use is, you get a note from a doctor that you are addicted to heroin and the doctor supplies the heroin to you. Methadone was used in the US for treatment of heroin back in the 70s, all the clinics were shut down in the 80's. First metadone is harder to kick then heroin, and heroin addicts would trade their methadone for heroin, much of this activity happened just outside the clinics. The only thing metadone did was create a new addiction. I have worked in drug rehab for over 10 years why do addicts go into treatment, to get out of going to jail. All the programs I been associated with are understaffed, untrained staff, many staff members are addicts themselves. I don't have an answer for the problem, but what is being tried is failing.



tazzygirl -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 11:50:06 AM)

Methadone clinics were shut down? Im sure that is news for the Clinic that operates in Pittsburgh.



kalikshama -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 11:55:43 AM)

Methadone clinics are abundant in South Florida



Moonhead -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 12:01:00 PM)

Bear in mind that he's also attributed a massive rise in the British crime rate to heroin being decriminalised here in the '60s, which it wasn't. I'm not sure that his information is completely reliable, even if he has worked in drug rehab.



flcouple2009 -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 2:30:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Yes heroin use is, you get a note from a doctor that you are addicted to heroin and the doctor supplies the heroin to you. Methadone was used in the US for treatment of heroin back in the 70s, all the clinics were shut down in the 80's. First metadone is harder to kick then heroin, and heroin addicts would trade their methadone for heroin, much of this activity happened just outside the clinics. The only thing metadone did was create a new addiction. I have worked in drug rehab for over 10 years why do addicts go into treatment, to get out of going to jail. All the programs I been associated with are understaffed, untrained staff, many staff members are addicts themselves. I don't have an answer for the problem, but what is being tried is failing.


Just wondering,   Is ignorance bliss?



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 2:56:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
1. What happened to the drug dealers?  The article simply mentioned treatment of the users, not whether the police still went after the dealers
They probably diversified to developing markets, other countries and younger victims, unfortunately.   A good deal do go to jail, come out and continue the same, I imagine.

quote:

2. Portugal's economy sucks and it's due for some serious austerity measures.  I expect that all the drug treatment mentioned here will end up on the chopping block.  Anyone ask what will happen to Casal Ventoso and Portugal when the treatment gets cut back?
It's probably true that austerity measures may help, but a large part of Portugal's problem has to be mismanagement of resources.   They were among the first to go into Africa, and take resources like diamonds, gold, etc...   It's almost like karma, sadly, that Portugal which was among the first countries to navigate the globe, and steal resources, is now so pathetic economically, in comparison to other European countries.

I cannot speak to this, but a friend of mine, who is a professor in Portugal (not of law), tells me that no matter how much money is pilfered in Portugal (from banks or government), there is a 10 year maximum prison sentence.   If this is true, I can see the upside of being a high level thief there.   Here, most wealthy thieves don't get caught/prosecuted, but at those times when they are caught, they at least get to spend life in prison, a la Madoff.



allthatjaz -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 4:31:09 PM)

Certain controlled drugs such as heroin can be obtained through a legitimate doctor’s prescription. In such cases their possession in the UK is not illegal.
Its not only the importers or dealers that get sent directly to jail. Unlawful possession can carry anything from a fine to a prison sentence depending on the class of drug and the amount found.
Alcohol abuse is a much bigger culprit in the UK when it comes to crime.
A recent study done by Professor David Nutt showed that heroin, crack and crystal meth were deemed worst for individuals, with alcohol, heroin and crack cocaine worst for society, and alcohol worst overall.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 4:53:06 PM)

I'm all for the Portugal solution, along with relegalizing MJ. I think it should be legal to grow poppies, too. Poppy tea is an old folk remedy in many parts of the world, particularly Eastern Europe.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 5:02:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
Its not only the importers or dealers that get sent directly to jail. Unlawful possession can carry anything from a fine to a prison sentence depending on the class of drug and the amount found.
I agree, and cannot stand that tax dollars are used to house self abusers for years.   It's true that many drug abusers become criminals who prey on society (in terms of causing accidents, stealing, etc), but not until than, should they be jailed IMO.

quote:

It's probably true that austerity measures may help, but a large part of Portugal's problem has to be mismanagement of resources.
I should have said misappropriation of financial resources, not simply mismanagement.   M



TheHeretic -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 7:00:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

In fact, heroin has never been decriminalised in England (or, indeed, in Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales). It's possible to have a few methadone programmes while the stuff's still illegal, hard as this may be for you to comprehend.


We've been doing that shit for decades, Moon. Maybe it would help if you weren't so stuck in your ignorant prejudices and bigotry about my country? Hell, I used to see the line at a clinic every morning at work, back when I still got dirty for a living. I had to lock my truck when I got out, and teach them that, no, I didn't have any change, and never would. It was much more entertaining if I was running late on my route. Ever seen two nasty looking street guys skipping across a parking lot, arm in arm beneath a rainy dawn? They must have thought it was pretty good shit!




TheHeretic -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 7:13:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

So if it worked but cost more that wouldn't be OK?  It would be better to keep pissing money down a failed hole?




I don't know what the hell you are talking about, Flco. I doubt it would be possible for a treatment based system to cost more than we wasting on a policy that isn't only a failure, but makes the condition worse.



Charles6682 -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 7:21:51 PM)

Don't forget who else benefits from the war on drugs.The Rehab industry.This rarely gets mentioned.They need people to continue to be "sick" so they can "treat" them.The rehab business needs all the "sick" people they can get.Even though the Rehab industry has horrible success rates.Public rehabs depend upon Local,State and Federal grants to help keep them in operation.Don't get me wrong,I am all for treatment for those who truly need it.However,to just throw anyone in rehab because they had a few beers is a waste of time and money.



Arpig -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 8:59:24 PM)

Personally I think all drugs should be legal



rulemylife -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 9:50:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nosathro

Yes heroin use is, you get a note from a doctor that you are addicted to heroin and the doctor supplies the heroin to you.


So the doctor writes himself a note?

Or do you have to go to one doctor for the note and another doctor for the heroin?

Kind of like being referred to a specialist?



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 9:58:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I think we should declare San Francisco the drug capital and send all the druggies there for counseling.   Might work.   

Didn't you try that back in '67 and '68? I don't think it worked very well from most accounts...


We got some great music out of it....



Charles6682 -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 9:59:43 PM)

One thing is for sure.The American war on drugs is not working.It is wasting billions of dollars a year.Innocent lives are getting killed on the Mexican and American sides of the border.Who is really to benefit from this anymore?People are clearly going to continue to use drugs whether its legal or not.The Druglords are the ones getting rich from this phony "war on drugs".



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 10:04:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I think we should declare San Francisco the drug capital and send all the druggies there for counseling.   Might work.   

Didn't you try that back in '67 and '68? I don't think it worked very well from most accounts...


We got some great music out of it....


'
All those dayglo freaks who used to paint their face...



DarkSteven -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 10:12:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

I think it should be legal to grow poppies, too. Poppy tea is an old folk remedy in many parts of the world, particularly Eastern Europe.


Poppies are not illegal.  Here you can get 100 of them for $2.  Organic, yet.  http://www.amazon.com/Organic-White-Poppy-Papaver-Somniferum/dp/B000SONX0W/ref=pd_sim_ol_4



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 10:27:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

I think it should be legal to grow poppies, too. Poppy tea is an old folk remedy in many parts of the world, particularly Eastern Europe.


Poppies are not illegal.  Here you can get 100 of them for $2.  Organic, yet.  http://www.amazon.com/Organic-White-Poppy-Papaver-Somniferum/dp/B000SONX0W/ref=pd_sim_ol_4


Are you being ironic, or just picky that he didnt specify opium poppies?



tazzygirl -> RE: Portugal, the answer to the war on drugs? (12/29/2010 11:58:50 PM)

Are you being stupid in not realizing that Papaver somniferum are opium poppy seeds?

http://www.ethnobotanicals.com/opium-poppy-seeds.html



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