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RE: Where to begin.. - 1/15/2011 5:45:48 PM

MaamJay

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OK so if I have this right, Princess is the Domme who is moving to be with her sub sadden? My Master also moved to live with me back in 2004 and so I might have a bit of insight here. He expressed that it was hard for the One who was supposed to be "the leader" to also be the one who is off-balance by being out of His comfort zone. New state, family now thousands of km away (He moved diagonally across Australia!), no job to come to, no other friends but me ... and in His case He was to be Head of a poly household as at the time, I was married to a hubby who was attempting to be My sub! (That didn't work out). So yeah, He was taking on a lot ... and He's 15 years younger than hubby and I too!

So from that insight, this is how I read Princess and sadden's situation:

She's freaking out from the need to move ... for many good reasons as She said. This leads to Her feeling like "not the leader She should be" ... it's causing major insecurity issues. She's quite probably not even being the leader in ways She still could be ie Her judgement is probably very clouded at the moment.

This leads to Her sub feeling insecure ... he has lost the leadership he craves ... he feels like a ship at sea with no anchor and quite possibly he is having to act in ways that feel more like leadership to him (sorting out a living situation etc etc). This is scary stuff to him too.

Add to that they are both young, inexperienced with relationships, and probably lacking the good communication skills that they need now but that tend to develop more over time and with conscious effort. I would say that mature couples disagree but they don't necessarily FIGHT. Master is without doubt the most mature communicator I have been with (and I've been married twice for 16 years and 11 years respectively), I say 3rd time lucky for me! It's really important to learn the rules for fair disagreements, and ways in which they can be constructively resolved. I'll describe what happens when Master and i disagree as an example.

Something is said (or more rarely done) with which the other is unhappy. That can be either way, i can upset Him or He can upset me, doesn't really matter. The other reacts to what is said in a negative way ... which the first then reacts to further. Yes, that's escalation. Notice I said "reacts" not "responds". Reaction is something you do without much (if any) thought, response is usually more considered. If we responded all the time, chances are there'd be much fewer problems! Once voices are raised, Master gets into full Master mode and using voice, stern look and words such as "Remember who you're speaking to!" usually pulls me into line in terms of saying what i need to say respectfully. On the odd occasions when i've been upset enough to not care (and express such!) Master says "Time out" and we both go to separate places to cool off. That's been done before anything too awful has been said, so things haven't escalated to a really bad place. After however long it takes to cool off and feel calm again (and i usually also feel contrite about the argument even if i still think i was in the right, i hate to be at odds with Him), we will seek each other out and apologise for upsetting each other, and for not expressing ourselves better. There is ALWAYS SOMETHING each side can apologise for in ANY argument (Mum's lesson and a very good one!). Even if you believe what you were shouting was 100% right ... you can apologise for shouting it. Then we discuss it calmly and usually find a resolution. On the very rare occasions when trying to discuss it threatened to upset us again, we agree to shelve it for a day or two with the promise to come back to it when we are more able to talk about it. My journal can come in handy then as a way of pouring it out thoughtfully on paper so He can read it ... that usually enables us to talk about it that bit later in a proper way.

This is so totally opposite to hubby 2 who was basically an overgrown child. I was always in the wrong in his eyes, there was never anything he had to apologise for, he was always the victim, the injured party, and he often lashed out verbally first, being offensive because he felt so very defensive. He was so scared of rejection, he did the rejecting first. And he took being sullen, pouty and sulky to extremes, it could last for days! I am really amazed I lasted for 11 years (we broke up twice on the way, the third time we tried was as D/s, that was the last ditch effort as far as I was concerned so when that failed it was out) ... let's just say my failing is not being willing to admit defeat!

So Princess and sadden ... have a look at those 2 scenarios and see with which you identify at all ... and hopefully it will provide some insight as to how you can both make efforts to move to a more mature level of communication. I know that LDR is hard (Master and i were LDR for a year with only 3 visits before He moved), also how hard it is to move in and live together (it was His first living together relationship, He had lived alone for several years since moving out from His family) ... I really hope you can both get it together! Good luck!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: Where to begin.. - 1/16/2011 4:06:45 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

You're right, couples do fight. As stated in the original post, though, couples don't say hurtful and personal attacks to one another.

After almost 40 years of "relationship" -- and 30 of those in counseling others through the rocky aspects of -their- relationships (as a pastoral care provider), I can tell you that this just isn't true. People who love one another DO hurt one another, and sometimes, they do it intentionally, because when you've let someone in that much, you've exposed the "buttons" that they know they can push during an argument and it gives that sense of "winning" (which, frankly, is a core of human nature). Just because people do or say hurtful things to one another doesn't mean that the relationship has to end.

Personally, I would put this down to the stress of the move. I tell people that major change brings a YEAR of adjustment, and that tension will be high, and things won't be -normal- for close to that amount of time -- and that includes moving (even when you're just moving across -town-). It takes time to learn new patterns, develop new habits, and mesh with someone else. Either the individuals involved are willing to make that kind of commitment to the relationship, or they're not. If you're ready to have things be in flux for a year, and learn how to do things -together-, regardless of how you've done them in the past when you were apart, and if you're willing to forgive things said in the heat of the stress and not cling to those as harbingers of doom, then there is a chance. 90% of making things work is the effort we're willing to put forth to make it happen. All of us have doubts, all of us have fears, and most of the time, we deal with those things, at least in part, by diminishing the time we spend "policing" ourselves -- we let our impatience start to show the chinks in our armor.

What do you want this relationship to be? If you both really want it to work, then give yourselves a break. Choose to let the arguments rest for now, and focus on the next step. Support the person making the biggest change and let them know that it's safe to let go... then work to build from the NEW foundation once everyone is in the same place at the same time -- and be PATIENT. It won't come in a day, a week, or even a month -- give yourselves a year, and see what happens once you're comfortable and have a chance to settle into what your life will look like from there on.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 1/16/2011 4:08:24 AM >

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RE: Where to begin.. - 1/17/2011 10:46:34 PM

PrincessofSadden

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay
So from that insight, this is how I read Princess and sadden's situation:

She's freaking out from the need to move ... for many good reasons as She said. This leads to Her feeling like "not the leader She should be" ... it's causing major insecurity issues. She's quite probably not even being the leader in ways She still could be ie Her judgement is probably very clouded at the moment.

This leads to Her sub feeling insecure ... he has lost the leadership he craves ... he feels like a ship at sea with no anchor and quite possibly he is having to act in ways that feel more like leadership to him (sorting out a living situation etc etc). This is scary stuff to him too.

Add to that they are both young, inexperienced with relationships, and probably lacking the good communication skills that they need now but that tend to develop more over time and with conscious effort.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

Thank you MaamJay for your post. I actually brought it up tonight while talking to Sadden because you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I did feel like I wasn't in control with me moving to be with him and that did cause me to freak out. I'm a major control freak and I don't like not knowing what will happen or feeling somewhat helpless, the thought scares the crap out of me. And I'm sure my actions didn't have the best effect on my sub and left him feeling lost, which led to all the fighting we were doing. He even mentioned to me that he was starting to feel neglected and I believe this was one of the major factors in it all.

We both do need to learn better communication skills, me especially. I was raised by my parents to never say how I felt and instead just internalize everything and hope for the best. My mom was all about appearances so showing any outwardly discontent was always a big no-no for me and unfortunately I carried these lessons into other relationships in my life. I'm working to fix them and Sadden and I had a very good talk on how to resolve both of our issues tonight. Of course it won't happen overnight, but we are trying and things are improving steadily.

- Princess

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RE: Where to begin.. - 1/18/2011 8:22:27 AM

SailingBum

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Yer kidding right? You know what the smart move is. If your not getting along now...what in the world make you think you will get along later

BadOne

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RE: Where to begin.. - 1/18/2011 8:54:24 PM

MaamJay

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Thank You so much for this post. I post here, especially details from My own life, not to be "out there" or "self-aggrandising" but because I HOPE that it will help others, by shining light from one life into another. People do have commonalities, and sometimes people have spoken into My own life in ways that have been quite life-changing and I am immensely grateful to them for that. It's good to feel in a small way that something I have said may speed someone's journey or make it happier along the way!

Recognising failings ... and influences from the past ... are the first and very important step towards dealing with them. Next is conscious action and repetition of different patterns. That can be a tough one as it doesn't "feel like you" which is, of course, precisely the point. It doesn't feel like you as that's the part of you that you want to change. So you have to get past the feeling of "this is someone else not me" and remember it's the me you want to be. Having a supportive partner can be great, as you can remind each other gently when either one falls back into old ways ... and also encourage each other in the use of new patterns. Even in a D/s, that's still possible. For example, instead of letting Your fear of the unknown make You grumpy or upset, You simply say "sorry, I am feeling a bit overwhelmed right now because I don't feel in control of what will happen with x". Acknowledging that with Your sub will make him feel better as he now understands that the problem lies with x and not with him, AND he can say "thank You, it was good that You could say that" or even "Yay Maam, You're using the new way!" if that's not going too far for You.

Some D's worry that showing any vulnerability will mean a sub respects them less or loses confidence in their Dominance. In real life, NO ONE is invincible, everyone has vulnerabilities. I have NEVER found revealing these to be a problem, if anything, I have found subs respect Me more for being able to show that I am human as well as Dominant. As a sub too, I know that the biggest fear for a sub is that of the unknown ... so if they don't know what's upsetting their D, they tend to assume it has to be themself! That leads to them questioning themselves, their capacity to be a good sub, and perhaps the fit of the relationship ... which can be destructive or constructive ... but possibly unnecessary if the problem is actually outside the relationship. So be open, be honest, keep each other in the picture with what is bothering each one ... a problem shared is a problem halved. Together you can work through what is overwhelming to one.

Good luck!
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: Where to begin.. - 1/28/2011 4:14:27 PM

PrincessofSadden

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Thank you for the words of encouragement MaamJay.
I am going to go see Princess here in one weeks time. We will see where that takes us. We have started identifying problems and working on them together both as a D/S and as a couple.
-Sadden

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RE: Where to begin.. - 1/28/2011 4:36:10 PM

IronBear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessofSadden

Please if you are not into long term relationships do not waste your time here.

I'm rather supprised that no one has pulled you up on this rude statement. Just who the hell do you think you are to post such demand when it is well documented that everyone can post to any post!

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I'm sorry your both going through a rough spot but I'm also sorry you needed to air your laundry on here. If my partner publicly told the world that we were going through a rough time, I'm afraid it would be over between us.
Who am I to give you my opinion on something as delicate and as personal as this? Only the two of you can sort this out.

Good luck to the both of you.

I agree completely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I was freaking out on my ex-BF when all i was doing was moving from Chicago to TN, i could imagine the stress of moving to another country. I mean serious freak out. But then again, i don't do well with change lol.

Angel my sweet, sweet lady, does this mean I'll have to deal with you freaking out with all the changes when you move here to live with us? I can see that a few visit to an Aussie pub and to the Kola park will be in order as well as a visit to the late Steve Irwin's Australia Zoo may be in order too.....

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RE: Where to begin.. - 1/28/2011 7:31:15 PM

StrongSpirit

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3 things.

1. Moving is VERY stressful. It is one of the most stressful situations, right up there with a death in the family.

2. That said, if you are fighting that much, you will continue to fight after the move. Don't expect it to end. You clearly do not have the skills yet to deal with stress and they will not magically appear just because your big stress-or goes away.

3. You are young. You can and should learn how to do with stress, particularly relationship stress.

I say GO FOR IT. Move. Recognise that the relationship is going to be stressful and go in with your eyes wide open. You will fight. You will most likely break up eventually. You need to learn how to deal with it and the experience will be great for you. Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. But you need to work at the relationship, don't expect it to be easy, but it is possible.

Use this relationship to learn and gain experience. Work hard at it. Read books, talk to your friends/parents. If your friends/family are not BDSM friendly, then make friends in the BDSM community and get advice from them. If you can afford it, consider getting some couples therapy (again from a kink-friendly therapist.

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RE: Where to begin.. - 1/28/2011 10:54:42 PM

MaamJay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessofSadden

Thank you for the words of encouragement MaamJay.
I am going to go see Princess here in one weeks time. We will see where that takes us. We have started identifying problems and working on them together both as a D/S and as a couple.
-Sadden

All the very best for your visit together, work on the new ways of communicating but also take time to enjoy each others company in restful ways too! Go for a walk holding hands in some uplifting countryside, go and see a funny movie, lie together and listen to music you both like, share a box of chocolates ... whatever makes you both feel relaxed, at peace and at one. I would love to know how things go, if you don't feel like continuing this thread, feel free to drop Me a message on the other side. I'm going on My gut here, but I just feel there is something so good at the heart of your relationship that's just waiting to come through all the outside stress.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: Where to begin.. - 1/28/2011 10:58:52 PM

MaamJay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessofSadden

Please if you are not into long term relationships do not waste your time here.

I'm rather supprised that no one has pulled you up on this rude statement. Just who the hell do you think you are to post such demand when it is well documented that everyone can post to any post!

With respect IB, I think what they were trying to indicate (but demonstrated the shaky communication skills that are plaguing their relationship too), is that this post was about people trying to establish a strong long term relationship, and they were recognising that this isn't everyone's "thing". I think they were trying to avoid those who aren't into LTRs from posting flak about them trying to do so. It didn't really work that way though!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]
PS from another thread ... Tassie?? Ye gods You'll freeze Your ass off down there! I do hope You and all at Bruin Cottage weren't affected by the dreadful floods. Regards MJ
Edited to fix the quote thingy!

< Message edited by MaamJay -- 1/28/2011 11:00:03 PM >

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RE: Where to begin.. - 1/28/2011 11:10:50 PM

IronBear

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Thank you MJ, we were out of the flood zone. Mind you I still have inches of water laying in my back yard from the weeks of heavy rain and grass up to my shoulders which can't be mowed until the ground dries enough.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 1/28/2011 11:12:36 PM >

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RE: Where to begin.. - 1/30/2011 2:51:13 PM

PrincessofSadden

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IB MaamJay is completely right about what i was trying to do with the statement you called me out on.
Im sorry if you felt it was disrespectfull.
That being said no ones ridiculed us at working on an LTR.

Thank you MaamJay. Im sure we will keep you posted via this thread or PM. Ive had strong gut feelings about this relationship too. Of course we will post some pictures of our time together :)

- Sadden

< Message edited by PrincessofSadden -- 1/30/2011 3:08:31 PM >

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RE: Where to begin.. - 1/30/2011 7:32:21 PM

IronBear

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Perhaps there was a better way to cover the point I commented on. Mayhaps it could have been to the effect that you would really value more comments who have been or who are in a similar situation. Still, no major drama, I'm just a rather pedantic bastard most times. I've been in a couple of TDRs one for almost 10 years and the other for two years.The first just grew apart with no anomosity so we remain good friends and the second, I released her for telling me porkies about basic information as well as trying to oust my wife and partner (Both are definite deal breakers). For me, I prefer and need my slave kneeling at my side or before me so I have both the visual and tactile contacts. It bis something which pleases me, especially as I am a person who revels in both tactile and visual contacts with people close to me.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 1/30/2011 7:33:03 PM >

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