Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (Full Version)

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Proprietrix -> Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 9:09:24 AM)


I'm trying to register for a BDSM weekend, annual event. On the website, the cost is listed as "$85 for the weekend when you also book a 2-night hotel stay, or $100 for the weekend". However, the Terms & Conditions page says "Hotel reservations, and payment thereof, are your responsibility. The hotel location is disclosed only to registered attendees, and is included in your confirmation email." The website doesn't state which hotel they are referring to, what type of neighborhood it is located in, the hotel room rates, what types of rooms, etc... NO information is offered about the hotel until I've already paid for the event.

This seems extremely odd to me and maybe even a bit fishy.

Does it seem odd that in order to get the discount, I would be expected to commit (via payment of discounted tickets) to procuring a hotel room for 2 nights when I am given no information on which hotel or its room rates? Has anyone else seen a BDSM event that offers a discount if one books a hotel room, but doesn't tell which hotel or the room rates?



Reasonable -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 9:12:50 AM)

Not that I know of, but I can see the reasoning behind it.

Conservative groups are making more and more of a pain of themselves-encouraged by the current administration. Including pulling things like trying to pressure hotels into cancelling events-with various intimidation and boycotting tactics.

Now look at it this way-if the venue is posted publically-it has a chance to get back to the watchdogs. Who can then try to screw things up. Do you really want these people calling hotel management-or taking down liscence plate numbers in the parking lot?

But these people are not about to PAY anything to a PERVERT event. which means,they are precluded from being able to make difficulties for those who do.



JohnWarren -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 9:18:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix


I'm trying to register for a BDSM weekend, annual event. On the website, the cost is listed as "$85 for the weekend when you also book a 2-night hotel stay, or $100 for the weekend". However, the Terms & Conditions page says "Hotel reservations, and payment thereof, are your responsibility. The hotel location is disclosed only to registered attendees, and is included in your confirmation email." The website doesn't state which hotel they are referring to, what type of neighborhood it is located in, the hotel room rates, what types of rooms, etc... NO information is offered about the hotel until I've already paid for the event.

This seems extremely odd to me and maybe even a bit fishy.



For the last five or so years, several far right groups including Concerned Women of America have been targeting BDSM conventions through attacks on the hotels where the events are held.

They set up fax and email campaigns and even visits to the hotels and the corporate offices threatening to generate bad publicity if the hotels allow these events to be held.  In cases like Vicious Valentine, Black Rose and Ohio Leatherfest they have convinced hotels to cancel contracts with the events.  In others, like The Fetish Fleamarket and Beat Me in St Louis they have created a great deal of fear and confusion for both organizers and attendees.

For this reason, most large events play it pretty close to the vest on exactly where the event is going to be held.



wytchywoman -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 9:24:02 AM)

I had an interesting experience once. I attended Ohio Leatherfest  a few years ago and in one of the adjacent audiotoriums where Molly Devon was speaking, there was a Christian group (I won't mention the denomination) conducting a seminar.

Got some pretty rude remarks from them, and a LOT of complaints to the management of the hotel. If I'm remembering my time frame correctly, the very next year they changed the venue from Cleveland to Columbus.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 9:28:30 AM)

It's pretty standard as far as I can tell.

When local vanillas found out about Black Rose being held in Ocean City back in 2003, it caused a lot of media flutter and protests from the locals and BR had to scramble to get new contracts, registration and hotel changes and all sorts of mess.

When local vanillas found out about Dark Odyssey being held in a local resort last year, it also caused a lot of media flutter and protestations (one mother even saying she couldn't think of her daughter sleeping in one of the beds there anymore).  They chose to remain there and had a great event overall.

Even if the hotel people themselves know exactly what's going on (which they should), if word gets out to the general public- it can cause a lot of problems for an alt lifestyle convention.  So, to try and prevent unnecessary drama and make for a smooth happy event, it's quite common to only disclose the specific location once you have registered.

And the reduced rate is likely straight from the hotel itself.  From experience- if it's an event you want to go to, it's always worth staying in the host hotel.

If you have a serious issue, emailing the coordinators to give you specifics about the hotel might be the way to go to have an exception made.  But, unless people know you, they might be wary.



Proprietrix -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 9:31:21 AM)

To be real honest, it *is* Ohio leather fest that I'm talking about here. I'm a bit aware of the history, so I understand why they are doing this. I do understand not wanting to give out the hotel name due to protesters, but it seems there should be some other alternative rather than committing to pay for something, when I'm given no information about what I'm paying for.
My thinking is along the lines of how much money am I committing to pay here? Are we talking  $29/night at the local Red Roof Inn/Motel 6 in a rough neighborhood, or are we talking $250/night luxury suite at a 5 star hotel? It makes a difference in whether or not a $15 discount is worth it, and whether being "on-premise" is worth it.
My other line of thinking is... what if a registrant has special needs/desires? I personally, require a smoking room. Some people might need a handicap room, or want to bring their poodle along, or insist on the continental breakfast thing, or whatever.
It seems to me that which hotel one books for their weekend get-away is a fairly significant part of planning the trip.
I feel kind of caught between a rock and a hard place here. On the one hand I want to go to this event and "support the lifestyle community" kind of thing, but on the other hand, I don't believe the coordinators are doing "the lifestyle community" justice by expecting registrants to commit to spending an indefinite amount of money. 
It's not that they aren't giving the exact hotel name and location so much as they aren't giving an opportunity to even know the rates or specifics about accomodations.
Shouldn't they at the very least let registrants know how much money we should anticipate pulling out of our wallets before we commit?
I'm not trying to sound bitchy or persnickety about it, but I doubt very many people could (or would) agree to book a hotel room if they have no clue how much the hotel room costs or if it will accomodate special needs they might have.



sub-boy -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 9:40:03 AM)

It would seem reasonable to me that if you took the discounted option then didn't like the hotel details they sent you that you could just pay the extra $15 and find a place more suitable for you to stay.

Having never been to an event like this personally I don't know if they'd allow this - but it seems reasonable to me.

:-))

sub-boy



Lordandmaster -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 9:42:59 AM)

If you're really worried about it, pay the extra $15 and book your own hotel room through the internet.



wytchywoman -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 9:44:40 AM)

I think your concerns are perfectly understandable, Proprietrix. I didn't have to worry about hotel accomodations since I was living within a 30 min drive at the time. I can only say the events in Cleveland were always held at "mid scale" chain motels in a suburban (not urban) area. The last one I personally attended in Cleveland was at one of the Ramada Inns near the airport.

It is frustrating to being buying a "pig in a poke", though. I don't think they necessarily block out a section of rooms, though. They probably have made arrangements for guests to get a discount, but I'm sure you'd have a choice of a smoking room and that any motel would also be willing to accomodate any other needs. Just my take on it. As LA suggested, you might give it a try to contact a co-ordinator ahead of time.

Then again, the co-ordinators aren't going to know if you're seriously interested or just trying to get information to start a "smear campaign". Good luck to you in whichever route you pursue. And I hope you have a marvelous time if you choose to attend.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 9:59:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wytchywoman
I had an interesting experience once. I attended Ohio Leatherfest  a few years ago and in one of the adjacent audiotoriums where Molly Devon was speaking, there was a Christian group (I won't mention the denomination) conducting a seminar.


wytchy,
We ran into a similar situation a couple of years ago. We attended the "Folsom Fringe" event, held in a very nice 'mainstream' hotel in San Jose. During the weekend us "freaks" pretty much had the run of the place. Seminars were held during the day in the conference rooms. The HUGE Ballroom served as the play area "dungeon" on Friday and Saturday night.

Sunday is check out day and also the day of the Folsom Street Fair in SF. The organizers of the Fringe arrange for buses to take the attendees from the hotel to the street fair. Most of the attendees dress for the event with a lot of leather, fetish wear, and a LOT of skin. It was in this manner that we were waiting for the buses in front of the hotel.

As it turns out, a fundamental Christian group was checking into the hotel at the same time we were leaving. The looks gave a new definition of "shock & awe!" Everyone waiting for buses couldn't believe how weird those people looked as they walked into the hotel!



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 9:59:31 AM)

Keeping the location private is standard practice, especially if you're in the South. People still can and do loose their jobs and unmentionables due to their involvement in the lifestyle. And, many events get picketed, or some such nonsense, no matter where they're located.

But, it is a bit odd to not list the price. There's a contact button on the website. Bug 'em!

http://ohioleatherfest.org/

Note: www.ohioleatherfest.com sends you to alt.com. WTF?

Fire



JohnWarren -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 10:00:00 AM)

Have you written them with the questions you've asked here?  You can't really expect to get satisfactory answers from a bunch of people on a website about this sort of thing.

All we can share is some of the reasons why they might not want to mention the hotel.



Sensualips -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 10:01:38 AM)

I also see that as standard, not just for bdsm events but also swinger events or any type of kinky-alternative type group as well.

The opposite is true as extreme right winged organizations also use a similar tactic.



Reasonable -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 10:02:04 AM)

laughs,there's a very good reason that I hard limit 'religion" in my profile guys.

This example is just one.



crouchingtigress -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 10:03:15 AM)

Try a email to the event promoters, they are much freer to talk privately.



thetammyjo -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 10:03:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix


I'm trying to register for a BDSM weekend, annual event. On the website, the cost is listed as "$85 for the weekend when you also book a 2-night hotel stay, or $100 for the weekend". However, the Terms & Conditions page says "Hotel reservations, and payment thereof, are your responsibility. The hotel location is disclosed only to registered attendees, and is included in your confirmation email." The website doesn't state which hotel they are referring to, what type of neighborhood it is located in, the hotel room rates, what types of rooms, etc... NO information is offered about the hotel until I've already paid for the event.

This seems extremely odd to me and maybe even a bit fishy.

Does it seem odd that in order to get the discount, I would be expected to commit (via payment of discounted tickets) to procuring a hotel room for 2 nights when I am given no information on which hotel or its room rates? Has anyone else seen a BDSM event that offers a discount if one books a hotel room, but doesn't tell which hotel or the room rates?


Sadly this is becoming the standard practice for many BDSM events.

They fear being targeted by neo-cons and religious fanatics who feel the need to control other people's lives especially their consensual sexual lives.

The best way to judge an event is to ask people you know and trust if they've been or heard of it. The second best way is to find an event which has been running for several years and do some research on it by looking at past information about it.

As with all things we do over the Internet we takes a risk when we buy or interact with things we can't see and touch in person.



thetammyjo -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 10:09:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Proprietrix

To be real honest, it *is* Ohio leather fest that I'm talking about here. I'm a bit aware of the history, so I understand why they are doing this. I do understand not wanting to give out the hotel name due to protesters, but it seems there should be some other alternative rather than committing to pay for something, when I'm given no information about what I'm paying for.
My thinking is along the lines of how much money am I committing to pay here? Are we talking $29/night at the local Red Roof Inn/Motel 6 in a rough neighborhood, or are we talking $250/night luxury suite at a 5 star hotel? It makes a difference in whether or not a $15 discount is worth it, and whether being "on-premise" is worth it.
My other line of thinking is... what if a registrant has special needs/desires? I personally, require a smoking room. Some people might need a handicap room, or want to bring their poodle along, or insist on the continental breakfast thing, or whatever.
It seems to me that which hotel one books for their weekend get-away is a fairly significant part of planning the trip.
I feel kind of caught between a rock and a hard place here. On the one hand I want to go to this event and "support the lifestyle community" kind of thing, but on the other hand, I don't believe the coordinators are doing "the lifestyle community" justice by expecting registrants to commit to spending an indefinite amount of money.
It's not that they aren't giving the exact hotel name and location so much as they aren't giving an opportunity to even know the rates or specifics about accomodations.
Shouldn't they at the very least let registrants know how much money we should anticipate pulling out of our wallets before we commit?
I'm not trying to sound bitchy or persnickety about it, but I doubt very many people could (or would) agree to book a hotel room if they have no clue how much the hotel room costs or if it will accomodate special needs they might have.


The event should have a cancelation policy so if you receive the housing information and it is unacceptable you should be able to get your money back from the event itself.

As far as requesting a smoking room, that really should not be a problem. The discount rates include a variety of rooms -- smoking and non-smoking -- so if you book early there shouldn't be a problem because you will be talking to the hotel directly.

We three are going to a sci fi conention in Indy and Tom just called their number, told them which event we were with, and asked for the specific things we needed. No problem. In general KinkyBooks gets the rooms when we go to BDSM conventions now because I'm going to work part-time for them. I doubt they have much problems with rooms at all though getting right next to each other can be difficult depending on how long they waited.



Proprietrix -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 10:21:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
Have you written them with the questions you've asked here?  You can't really expect to get satisfactory answers from a bunch of people on a website about this sort of thing.
All we can share is some of the reasons why they might not want to mention the hotel.


Yes I have contacted them via the address provided on the site. I haven't received an answer as of yet. But like others said, they may not reply because they might think I'm "fishing" for information for a protest group. I tried to word my email to assure them that I'm not trying to find out the hotel name, just needing to know what kind of prices I'm looking at.

My question isn't so much about why they aren't disclosing the exact hotel. My question is more about why they aren't disclosing room rates. The reason I asked here is because I was curious if anyone else has come across this peculiarity in registering for events.



MsPoetress -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 10:52:35 AM)

I have only found that with Orbitz. When trying to save money I can book a room through them, but I can't see what roach motel I am wasting money on nor where it is located.

As far as Leather Events we did not have any problems.

~poe



MissA -> RE: Secrecy about hotel used for BDSM gathering??? (5/1/2006 11:24:20 AM)

Perhaps you could e-mail them just asking about the type of accomodation and price range but not directly asking for a name. Just ask about the neighborhood it's in (is it safe?) and what price range the rooms will be. I can't see how they'd have a problem giving non-hotel-specific details.

~Ms. A~



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