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RE: novice training a novice? - 5/2/2006 6:14:47 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn
I mean, really, human beings coax, cajole and browbeat other human beings, but training is best left to animal handlers.  Do what you are comfy with, up to and including experimentation.  Beyond that, it's all personal preferences on how things should be done around that person.  Only 'training' a submissive needs is to learn how to bellow a safeword, if possible, or otherwise convey the need to stop right then and there...

- Dustyn

I have a different perspective on training. 

My local partner a year ago would have taken ten minutes to be able to bring up that he had an idea that he wanted to share, then much coaxing to actually bring it up, followed by another five minutes of caveats and apologies- that's how insecure and embarassed he was about communicating his desires.

Now?  It only takes him a minute, and he regularly brings them up on his own without any coaxing from me.

That was a concious work on my part.  It was something I wanted him to get to from the beginning, it was something we've worked together on and that I've trained him towards (and still am) and he will quite easily let people know that it's my work and guidance that got him to this point.

Now, he's not a dog just playing fetch (that can be fun too though), our time together, security together and his own sense of self security were key points as well- but it was due in large part to my conscious and focused training on this aspect that has gotten him to where he is now.

Training can be for lots of things- including one's perspectives, habits, processing and more.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Dustyn)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: novice training a novice? - 5/2/2006 6:27:16 AM   
ownedgirlie


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Joined: 2/5/2006
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I so agree with you LA.  People get put off by the word, "Training."  I was trained on the job - not just technically but to understand the values and culture of my company and department...to learn the idiosyncracies of my boss.  I get trained on new software all the time.  I was trained how to drive in my "Drivers Training" class.

Training is simply a word for being "taught."  My Master trained me, and we both are far from idiots.  He trained me to think - to self analyze, to understand and control my emotions, to find my own confidence and to be happy, content and peaceful.  He trained me to his liking, so that I would learn all those things which please him, and have ample practice at doing them well.  And yep, I may as well throw in, he trains me on new tricks as well...woof.

I agree with those who say it is not the duration of which someone has done something which qualifies one as an expert, it is the wisdom, intelligence and insight he(she) holds.


(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: novice training a novice? - 5/2/2006 2:26:15 PM   
Dustyn


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Joined: 4/5/2006
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Ahhh... but can you honk horns with your nose?  That is the key issue... LOL

- Dustyn


_____________________________

Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

(in reply to givemyall)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: novice training a novice? - 5/2/2006 2:52:16 PM   
genvieve


Posts: 228
Joined: 5/14/2005
From: SF Bay Area
Status: offline
It is wonderful that this novice wants to engage in exploration with you. But however, i do not believe that whatever you will learn from him will be from his "training."  If you want to enter the lifestyle by exploring it with your partner and trying out what you like and don't like about it... go...have fun!  But, i don't believe it's training in the sense that alot of U/us tend to think of D/s training.

_____________________________

In the quietness of myself, i find myself at the mercy of Your hand.

Musical Wishes Design

(in reply to rapture2778)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: novice training a novice? - 5/2/2006 4:58:05 PM   
Dustyn


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Joined: 4/5/2006
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Now to me, that isn't what I think of when the word 'training' comes up.  What you did, in my mind, is encourage him to be secure enough in the relationship to speak his mind without fear of rejection, ridicule or anything else.

You train dogs to sit... you potty train little kids... you don't train grown adults, short of job requirements... But that's just me and my point of view usually only works for me...

- Dustyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn
I mean, really, human beings coax, cajole and browbeat other human beings, but training is best left to animal handlers.  Do what you are comfy with, up to and including experimentation.  Beyond that, it's all personal preferences on how things should be done around that person.  Only 'training' a submissive needs is to learn how to bellow a safeword, if possible, or otherwise convey the need to stop right then and there...

- Dustyn

I have a different perspective on training. 

My local partner a year ago would have taken ten minutes to be able to bring up that he had an idea that he wanted to share, then much coaxing to actually bring it up, followed by another five minutes of caveats and apologies- that's how insecure and embarassed he was about communicating his desires.

Now?  It only takes him a minute, and he regularly brings them up on his own without any coaxing from me.

That was a concious work on my part.  It was something I wanted him to get to from the beginning, it was something we've worked together on and that I've trained him towards (and still am) and he will quite easily let people know that it's my work and guidance that got him to this point.

Now, he's not a dog just playing fetch (that can be fun too though), our time together, security together and his own sense of self security were key points as well- but it was due in large part to my conscious and focused training on this aspect that has gotten him to where he is now.

Training can be for lots of things- including one's perspectives, habits, processing and more.


_____________________________

Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: novice training a novice? - 5/2/2006 5:28:03 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn
Now to me, that isn't what I think of when the word 'training' comes up.  What you did, in my mind, is encourage him to be secure enough in the relationship to speak his mind without fear of rejection, ridicule or anything else.

You train dogs to sit... you potty train little kids... you don't train grown adults, short of job requirements... But that's just me and my point of view usually only works for me...
- Dustyn

There was so much more than that.  We did many communication exercises, I made him write emails and essays, I gave him specific perspective lessons and "homeworks" to do with other people at work and at parties when I wasn't there.  It was a very conscious process.

People can and should be trained to communicate well- even people with natural skills (which are very few) need to be trained in how to operate and maneuver with them.  We're not born knowing how to communicate well and very often we're taught horrible skills growing up.  I trained him into being a much more fluent communicator.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Dustyn)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: novice training a novice? - 5/2/2006 10:26:38 PM   
Dustyn


Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/5/2006
Status: offline
I just don't think it's actual training as opposed to being shown that providing more knowledge helps the other party understand... but hey, you call it what you want, I'll call it what I want, and I think we'll both be peachy-keen, jelly bean...

- Dustyn


_____________________________

Mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of all children.

Murderer?! Murderer! Let me tell you something about murder. It's fun; it's easy; you gonna learn ALL about it. - Tin Tin

Can you be more amusing?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: novice training a novice? - 5/2/2006 10:33:05 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dustyn

I can just see the ad in the newspaper now:

Submissive ISO Dominant
Required 5 years experience, with references.

LOL

- Dustyn


Beats what I usually see posted locally.

NewDominate wants lil gril for kink, get over here and obay you know you want it slut. Master is waiting, espect replay within the hor. You will be at my feet tonight No game players!

Gotta love someone that not only can't spell but has no idea how this usually works.

(in reply to Dustyn)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: novice training a novice? - 5/2/2006 10:46:00 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
Just on the training arguement...I AM an animal trainer.

My boys are trained how I like my coffee, where dishes are to be stored after washing. They are trained in the handling and routines of my animals so that neither the boy or the dog is hurt. They are trained in my expectations, routines, and may be sent out for training in any special skills that I require.

Teaching another your expectations by it's definition is training. Whether it involves liver treats and a leash is purely up to the dominant.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: novice training a novice? - 5/2/2006 11:13:57 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
Maybe this will help:


Main Entry: train
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French trainer, from Old French, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin traginare; akin to Latin trahere to draw
transitive senses
1 : TRAIL, DRAG
2 : to direct the growth of (a plant) usually by bending, pruning, and tying
3 a : to form by instruction, discipline, or drill b : to teach so as to make fit, qualified, or proficient
4 : to make prepared (as by exercise) for a test of skill
5 : to aim at an object or objective : DIRECT <trained his camera on the deer> <training every effort toward success>
intransitive senses
1 : to undergo instruction, discipline, or drill
2 : to go by train
synonym see TEACH

(in reply to theRose4U)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: novice training a novice? - 5/3/2006 12:53:29 AM   
TheShadows


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Joined: 9/16/2004
From: Southern Illinois
Status: offline
As far as two novices learning together, great.  But a novice training a novice makes no sense to me.  How can someone train someone who doesn't know any more than the other person?  The blind leading the blind, and all that...

As far as this thing against training...I don't see what the big deal is.  Sure, a lot of HNGs use it as a ploy, but there are plenty of very experienced Tops/Doms/Masters who have a lot to give and impart to those newer than themselves, which doesn't involved attempting to dive into the sub/slave's pants.

I tend to like the definition of "to make prepared".  Training, as in, "here's some pitfalls you might come across, how does this feel?, do you think you'd enjoy "X" activity?, this might be something a potential partner may require of you, how do you feel about that?, etc etc etc.  Expose them to different people, play, toys, feelings, thoughts, realizations.  To help them become prepared for what submission/slavery might entail. 

My two pennies.  As always, YMMV.

_____________________________

"The reason the mainstream is thought of as a stream is because of it's shallowness." - George Carlin

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most..." - Ozzy Osbourne

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: novice training a novice? - 5/3/2006 3:58:13 AM   
MasterRobert1


Posts: 225
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline
Yeah, that makes perfect sense, the blind leading the blind. Thats the approach we should take with everything: medicine; engineering; aircraft piloting; air traffic controller. I think it would make for a much more interesting (not to mention more exciting) world.

(in reply to mysticalfaerie)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: novice training a novice? - 5/3/2006 6:27:04 AM   
unquenchable


Posts: 155
Joined: 4/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mysticalfaerie

Hello everyone, I have a question, recently I started talking to someone and entered into a relationship with them. He is newer to the lifestyle and wants to train me. I have had other people say that they want to train me however the guy im seeing is concerned that i would develop feelings for that person. He has friends in the lifestyle that he could turn to and ask for help and he is willing to read up and gain more knowledge on this but I was wondering what you all think about a novice training a novice and everything that surrounds that.


I am just not into the word 'train', but ..........

Its a relationship, it requires the parties involved within it to work together and learn what they like and want.  A third person?  why?

Now that does not mean he needs to start swinging a whip at you or going to town on your backside with a paddle.   Leave that stuff alone for now.  Do the safer things, learn each other, enjoy each other, and play safe.

There is plenty of time for the other stuff once HE has learned how to use the other stuff.

Enjoy and play safe.
un------

(in reply to mysticalfaerie)
Profile   Post #: 33
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