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RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 4:07:24 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Charles, if you believe FL is past racism, I suggest a quick trip down to miami.

I've been in 46 states and several foreign countries, lived in a few of em and miami is FAR and AWAY the most racist place I have ever been in.


Miami?

Ever been up around Okeechobee?

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 4:23:23 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Is this where you make shit up as you go along, and we get to accept it as reasonable argument."

How's that ? You obviously didn't. And when someone dies and makes you boss of CM, you can then order me to only quote and never compose. To never express an opinion that there was a possibiliy of anything.

"in response to someone I consider a dellusional crackpot"

Thank you. A delusional crackpot flew a kite in a thunderstorm, wrote E=mc^2. You put me in waaaay too good company. Henry Ford was a crackpot, "I want like a pipe where raw materials go in and cars come out, and all the people who work there will make about five times as much money as most other people". That is about as crackpot as it seems. Ain't it ? Well, his accomplishments mean nothing because he was penpals with the wrong person. I could tell you who, but since I am inferior I guess you must already know.

"I know you don't see much, because you head is stuck somewhere dimly lit."

Please oh please provide me with an example. (oops, I mean the OP, not the PC)

"For what?   Do you even have a job?"

I've quit jobs people would die for. You don't even want to know how much I make an hour, and even saying it is inappropriate here, because some don't have that luxury. A job I quit in 2004 is now the highest paying job advertised on craigslist. But I like my new job better, even though it is going to end soon. I could go back I guess. However I am mostly uncollectable. If you find my money I'll give you a cut.

"I don't know why I feel compelled to write this post"

In the words of Putney Swope, played by Arnold Jackson (I think) "Anything I could say would be redundant".

"Well, at least you have some self awareness, and can call yourself out, sans shame.   I've always had a certain amount of respect for the people who say what they mean, and mean what they say. "

Nice try at schmoozing it over, but no joy. You don't like me and that is your perogative. You know what I am going to do about it ! Goddammit I am going to live my life as I see fit. So there.

"Who thinks that way?   Not comfortable with what you read, take your own advice. "

Have I insulted you ? Have you insulted me ? Do I give a fuck if you insulted me ? Hell no. I choose to respond, I would rather know if people hate me or my views. Myself, I have given up on hate. I have given up on anger. If taking care of business, and finding solutions in stressful situations, and accepting and responding to those who would tar and feather me is burying my head somehow I guess it's one of those new definitions. Come on, nobody can keep up with those.

Ignorance is bliss
Freedom is slavery
I forgot the other one.

T

(in reply to SexyBossyBBW)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 5:17:56 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Charles, if you believe FL is past racism, I suggest a quick trip down to miami.

I've been in 46 states and several foreign countries, lived in a few of em and miami is FAR and AWAY the most racist place I have ever been in.


Miami?

Ever been up around Okeechobee?


Yes I have Rule. What makes miami so unique is that there are over 2 dozen racial, cultural and ethnic groups that roundly HATE each other and make no bones about it.
It is probably the only place in america where a minority-controlled governmental body has ever openly passed legislation against another minority and gotten away with it.
It's the only town where I have ever heard "We dont serve (fill in the blank) get the hell out of here" (the latter was in Spanish and the proprieter didnt know I understood, no it wasnt aimed at me). I just kinda looked at him and watched the person slink out the door.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 5:51:29 AM   
susan34B


Posts: 30
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"One day we WILL get the colonies back!!! "

Why ?

T

For the back taxes,of course!!!

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 6:03:15 AM   
gungadin09


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Joined: 3/19/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Slavery would've been abolished eventually anyway. Know why ? Slave owners were duped. People wanted work, and there was manpower available. If you really think about it, you hire people to pick the cotton for example, pay them their ten cents a day and they are on their way. To own a slave you have upkeep. You must supply all food and medical care as well as housing, and deal with the fact that they might run. That is not cost effective and it never was. Slave traders stuck it to them. The ramifications to society are another matter.

Most slaves were given little to eat, ramshackle housing, and medical care was scant to nonexistent. And while it's true that wage workers don't require those things, the downside is... you have to PAY them. This argument is tantamount to saying that concentration camps were just a costly blunder by the Nazis, who never figured out that it would have been much cheaper to just pay the Jews.

Now that i think about it those kinds of arrangements exist today- they are called sweatshops, which are not materially different than slavery itself. Southern plantation owners had no more interest in paying livable wages than Indonesian factory owners do now. They had an interest in getting rich. They MADE slavery cost effective. They were not sitting in their vast mansions LOSING money.

One thing I consider a possibility, which I do not assert as fact, just a possibility, is that people could've been brought here from Africa willingly. Promised a job and provisions, pretty much just as the indentured servants of the colonial times. Enough may have seen it as an opportunity. And at the end of the week they would go home with their few pennies and handled all of their problems on their own. At the very least the plantation owners would've saved money on chains and whips.

That would have required seeing them as human beings and not livestock. i don't think the Europeans or Americans were willing to do that, regardless of whether it would save them money. Which i seriously doubt.

It's been said that the slaves were never freed. That the moves made simply turned us all into serfs. I can't find a valid argument against that.

Well, at very least the slaves went from being slaves to being free men in name only for a very long time. Well, into the 1960's, really. But if You are talking about society in general, i'd say: that's interesting. Please explain.

pam



(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 6:54:46 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		How much do you believe a slave cost back then?

Have you converted it to real money today?

Have you looked into the return rate of ownership?

quote:

Most slaves were given little to eat, ramshackle housing, and medical care was scant to nonexistent.


Your source? Because "most" doesnt fit with what I know about the dealings with slaves in the south.

.

_____________________________

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 7:33:19 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"War broke out upon, and because of, Lincoln's election. Secession nullification were the South's threat to keep from having slavery abolished; the fact that Lincoln would not tolerate their actions was what precipitated things. "

I find that hard to believe. If the war started right when the Lincoln era started, it must have been due to the actions of the previous administration, don't you think ? And people in the know actually realize that Lincoln had no real aspirations of freeing the slaves. So how would his election precipitte a civil war ?

There are obviously other factors that have not been given due consideration.

Both points of view are true. The war had already been planned years before Lincoln was elected, but could not be implemented until he was elected. When he was done, he became a liability.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 9:44:47 AM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		lol,Flcouple,your right,I do not need to go very far outside the Tampa metro area to still find "Southern" living.As a matter of fact,the largest Confederate flag in the world is standing high and proud right outside of Tampa,right there where I-4 and I-275 meet.Ive lived in Brandon/Seffner area too,Ive seen the "Start and Bars" alot out there.Plant City has alot of "Star and Bars" as well.

As for as heading North,well,I like the winters here in Flordia!You are correct,I have come across a good number of racists in the Northeast.I am sure alot of those Northeast racists have called Flordia home as well.I dont really care for them as well either.I dont have any tolerance for any racist intorlant biggots,no matter where they come from.

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(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 9:49:29 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		FR

i've encountered a lot of racism in my life. However most of the time it is ashamed of itself. Most people and places in the developed world have tried to move past racism.

Only three times have i met racism where it didn't appear ashamed of itself......

...on a first nations reserve, 200km from the nearest other settlement.....

...in a pub in Hammersmith.....

...in a diner in NOLA.....

The last one was the most blatant.

(in reply to Charles6682)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 9:58:54 AM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		There probaly are a number of factors as to why the North ended slavery before the South did.Lets not forget slavery was perfectly legal in Canada at a time too.The Northern climate does have shorter growing seasons.Slaves were not as well with Northern Forrests,as they were in the South.So really,Slaves in the North were used more for domestic reasons inside the house.After awhile,the Slaves were viewed more as apart of the family in the North,instead of viewed as just some piece of property.



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Profile   Post #: 150
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 10:02:15 AM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		Philo,alot of racists Ive seen when confronted with their racist views,usually are ashamed of it in public at least.They try and backpedal and try to convince those around them that they are not racist.This is where society in general has improved.Now its a dirty little sin to be a racist,at least in the open.That dosent mean when someone turns their back,they some how stay that way.

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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 10:18:43 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		Seen that sort of racism a lot, Charles.........but the sort of racism that simply doesnt see anything wrong with itself.....well, thats thankfully rare nowadays.

(in reply to Charles6682)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 12:06:52 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Unfortunately I see far too much of it in rural/small town, Iowa. Especially among the 60+ retired military men. 

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 12:34:16 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

How much do you believe a slave cost back then?

Have you converted it to real money today?

Have you looked into the return rate of ownership?

quote:

Most slaves were given little to eat, ramshackle housing, and medical care was scant to nonexistent.


Your source? Because "most" doesnt fit with what I know about the dealings with slaves in the south.



i haven't done any research on the subject. i only know what i was taught in school, and what i looked up on several sites on the internet. i could be wrong. i should have clarified that i was stating my own opinion and not a fact. Having said that, you haven't listed your sources either.

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 1/14/2011 12:49:54 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 8:53:15 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline 		Well. Fuck me. Turns out Termy and tazzy were right. How annoying. (lol). Apparently slavery was dying out, and most slaves were relatively well treated by the time the Civil war came around, although in the 17th and 18th centuries things were pretty horrendous. Sorry guys. i'll keep my mouth shut next time i don't know what i'm talking about.

pam

(in reply to gungadin09)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 9:08:25 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Unfortunately I see far too much of it in rural/small town, Iowa. Especially among the 60+ retired military men. 



...sucks doesn't it?

Coming across a population of real racism, even if it isn't meant as soul destroying, is always depressing.

However, i stand behind my main point. Racism as an unashamed ethical poisition, is becoming a rare thing. Usually confined to either aged populations or sporadic geographic populations. Although you'll get the odd resurgence of ultra-right wing racism when economic conditions become bad enough.

Like drinking and driving, its slowly becoming socially unacceptable.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 9:10:19 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Unfortunately I see far too much of it in rural/small town, Iowa. Especially among the 60+ retired military men. 



...sucks doesn't it?

Coming across a population of real racism, even if it isn't meant as soul destroying, is always depressing.

However, i stand behind my main point. Racism as an unashamed ethical poisition, is becoming a rare thing. Usually confined to either aged populations or sporadic geographic populations. Although you'll get the odd resurgence of ultra-right wing racism when economic conditions become bad enough.

Like drinking and driving, its slowly becoming socially unacceptable.

Left wing racism is, thankfully, becoming unacceptable too.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 9:12:16 PM   
PyrotheClown


Posts: 1950
Joined: 5/18/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Unfortunately I see far too much of it in rural/small town, Iowa. Especially among the 60+ retired military men. 



...sucks doesn't it?

Coming across a population of real racism, even if it isn't meant as soul destroying, is always depressing.

However, i stand behind my main point. Racism as an unashamed ethical poisition, is becoming a rare thing. Usually confined to either aged populations or sporadic geographic populations. Although you'll get the odd resurgence of ultra-right wing racism when economic conditions become bad enough.

Like drinking and driving, its slowly becoming socially unacceptable.

Never been locked up,have you?

racism is very alive behind bars, many inmates bring it with them when they get out, considering how many people the US locks up per year, I'd say it's a very large problem

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 9:14:48 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Unfortunately I see far too much of it in rural/small town, Iowa. Especially among the 60+ retired military men. 



...sucks doesn't it?

Coming across a population of real racism, even if it isn't meant as soul destroying, is always depressing.

However, i stand behind my main point. Racism as an unashamed ethical poisition, is becoming a rare thing. Usually confined to either aged populations or sporadic geographic populations. Although you'll get the odd resurgence of ultra-right wing racism when economic conditions become bad enough.

Like drinking and driving, its slowly becoming socially unacceptable.

Left wing racism is, thankfully, becoming unacceptable too.



.....speaking personally i coulodnt agree more.

i've been on the sticky end of both sorts of racism. The bizarre thing is, the right wingers knew but didn't care......the left wingers didn;t realise but still apparently didn't care.


Here's the thing guys.


Racism is neither a left or a right wing preserve. Both sides can indulge in it, without apparent shame.

The defence against racism is not ideology per se., its about continually and happily self checking against fear of the other.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: The South shall rise again??? - 1/14/2011 9:21:44 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Unfortunately I see far too much of it in rural/small town, Iowa. Especially among the 60+ retired military men. 



...sucks doesn't it?

Coming across a population of real racism, even if it isn't meant as soul destroying, is always depressing.

However, i stand behind my main point. Racism as an unashamed ethical poisition, is becoming a rare thing. Usually confined to either aged populations or sporadic geographic populations. Although you'll get the odd resurgence of ultra-right wing racism when economic conditions become bad enough.

Like drinking and driving, its slowly becoming socially unacceptable.

Left wing racism is, thankfully, becoming unacceptable too.



.....speaking personally i coulodnt agree more.

i've been on the sticky end of both sorts of racism. The bizarre thing is, the right wingers knew but didn't care......the left wingers didn;t realise but still apparently didn't care.


Here's the thing guys.


Racism is neither a left or a right wing preserve. Both sides can indulge in it, without apparent shame.

The defence against racism is not ideology per se., its about continually and happily self checking against fear of the other.

philo, I'll disagree with you a TINY bit about left wing racists. I have literally heard some of them basically say " I can't be racist because I'm not a white, anglo-Saxon protestant southern male"

I think that is wrong too.

Racism is wrong no matter what color or gender or ethnicity or religion you are.

Some folks just don't get that.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 160
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