The South shall rise again??? (Full Version)

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Charles6682 -> The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 10:02:15 PM)

I am a Northern who lives in the South.It does appear that intolerance is still a factor in the South.Now,the Civil War is long over as it should be.However,theres still a few in the South who like to say the "South shall rise again".Clearly,some Southerns still have resentments towards the North for winning the Civil War.I dont know,if the North lost,would Yankees feel this way?Now,most parts of Flordia are different.Thats because so many Southerns have called Flordia home.However,theres still parts of Flordia with this additude as well.As a native Yankee,yes,I do take this personal.Being a Yankee in the South was at one time almost as bad as being a Black person.Now,times have changed but theres still a few who still have this mindset.

I know many good Southerns.Lets also be clear racism is still alive and well in the Northeast as well,make no mistake about that.The North has legalized slavery as well.However in modern day times,lets just say I have noticed more racism in the South.Alot of these racist are also Yankees who have moved south of the Mason-Dixon line as well.Racism in the South has gotten alot better too.Still,now I see the intolerance more aimed towards gay and those who disagree with them.Of course,that happens in the Northeast too.Still,theres a difference.Such as in state laws.Just like the when the Northern states ended slavery long before the South did,the Northern states are also easing their additudes towards gays on a statewide level.While the South continues to pass anti-gay laws.

I have been reading alot of history on the South.The South has a long history of passing intolerant laws.It took the force of the Federal government to end slavery and jim crow laws in the South.Why?Why were this hateful laws on the books for so long in the South?I do wonder if climate does have an impact.The South is mostly hot and humid for many months out of the year.While of course,the Northern states deal with more colder weather.Does the weather have an impact on how people may think?I do remember reading in my local paper a few months ago that the extreme heat does actually tend to make people "slower".Forgive me for using that term,thats the onlyword I can find to describe what I am trying to say.I would think the long,cold,dark winters would leave a more depressed state of mind than anything.I know the extreme winter gets to me.Of course,with the invention of the A/C,now a days,that does help to combat the long hot,humid summers of the South.Which helps explain why so many Northerns have moved South now.

I still do see alot of anti Federal government additudes down here,even in the more liberal parts of Flordia.Why is that?Is the South really mad at the Federal government because to them,it still represents the North that defeated them?I am curious about these questions.I see a few Southerns who like to wave the Southern flag around.They say its because of hertiage,not hate.I believe some of them.I am proud of my Yankee heritage.



Rule -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 10:10:45 PM)

The word 'additude' does not exist.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 11:07:30 PM)

That's your only observation and opinion rule, misspelling attitude?

Charles, I don't think anyone's going to touch this...   It's too uncomfortable a subject, and objective discussion does not quite do justice to something fairly subjective and personal to each.      M



Edwynn -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 11:10:13 PM)


quote:

It does appear that intolerance is still a factor in the South.Now,the Civil War is long over as it should be.However,theres still a few in the South who like to say the "South shall rise again".Clearly,some Southerns still have resentments towards the North for winning the Civil War ...

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Charles6682 -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 11:16:21 PM)

I dont have anything personal against the South.I feel alittle uncomfortable mentioning this topis but its been bugging me for awhile.I probaly should have worded what I typed alittle better but its alittle too late for me to edut this now.Look,I know this is 2011.Times have changed and I get that.Peronally,I like living in Flordia.One only needs to be here in Janruary to figure that one out!I have known many great Southerns down here,no doubt.Like one said though,no one wants to touch this subject.I can understand why.Maybe it was just something I needed to get off my chest.Maybe this thread will just disappear as fast as it did appear.No one will post and just let it go bye-bye.



AquaticSub -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 11:18:04 PM)

I'm really not going to get into this one. It's an incredibly difficult subject and there are so many different factors. When Booth killed Lincoln, so also died the Reconstruction he had planned - which was a rebuilding instead of a preying upon a war-wracked area. When Sherman marched to the sea, people's homes were destroyed, their possessions looted and destroyed. There was a lot of anger and a lot of reasons for it. The area where I grew up only *just* got back to their pre-Civil War population within the last ten years. Not to mention, all the factors causing tension before the war!

Honestly, I don't think there is *a* reason - it's not as simple as that the Union won. It's all those things that happened before, during and afterwards. If you really want some answers, I'd suggest cracking some books on the politics of the time period and how society was affected in both the North and South.



Rule -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 11:25:32 PM)

I cannot say much about it. This is something for anthropologists and sociologists.

It seems to me that there are various factors:
1. The North was and is industrial and the South was agricultural?
2. Lots of the slaves are descended from criminals that African peoples wanted to get rid off.
3. The Caucasian populations have evolved within the Christian reproductive algorithm for one thousand up to two thousand years, whereas the original African slave population had not.
4. The South was fucked over by the people who orchestrated the Civil War. (The North was too, but less obviously so.)

One thing that one Northerner can do, is to marry a Southerner.



Charles6682 -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 11:26:15 PM)

I actually have read some history on the Civil War.I have family who is from the North as well as the South as well.Its too bad the Civil War could have been avoided in the first place but history is over on that one.I know Lincoln wanted a softer appoarch to helping rebuild the South.I agree,when he died,there went that plan.The Union did some horrible things in the South.Your right,that would be a very good reason why some down here were so resentful.Honestly,if that happened to those in the North,I would imagine they would be very resentful as well.I know the North basically had "invisible economic sanctions" on the South well until the 1960s.That cleary didnt help matters either.



AquaticSub -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 11:32:29 PM)

If you've done the reading, I don't know what you are going to get off a message board. I particularly don't get the idea that the weather has something to do with it. I'd be interested in a credible source on that theory.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 11:33:04 PM)

See, you did have more to say! 
quote:

2. Lots of the slaves are descended from criminals that African peoples wanted to get rid off.
Please tell me about the book you read this in, because it's not one I'm familiar with.    I like to continue reading and learning.    M



AquaticSub -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 11:36:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyBossyBBW

See, you did have more to say! 
quote:

2. Lots of the slaves are descended from criminals that African peoples wanted to get rid off.
Please tell me about the book you read this in, because it's not one I'm familiar with.    I like to continue reading and learning.    M


That's a new one on me. I know in my African-American art class we disused how many of the slaves were captured by other tribes and sold to Europeans. I wouldn't be surprised to find that is true, the same idea is behind Australia, though I would also very much like to see a source for it.



Rule -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 11:37:11 PM)

I probably picked it up from some kind of television documentary.

If you truly are interested in the subject, then by all means do investigate it yourself.



Rule -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 11:39:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I know in my African-American art class we discussed how many of the slaves were captured by other tribes and sold to Europeans.

That too. I do know that governments in East Africa sent a letter to European governments to please stop the slavery raids and trafficking, because it was destroying their societies. The letter was ignored.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 11:49:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
That's a new one on me. I know in my African-American art class we disused how many of the slaves were captured by other tribes and sold to Europeans. I wouldn't be surprised to find that is true, the same idea is behind Australia, though I would also very much like to see a source for it.
Your points are reasonable.    However, my reading on the subject, indicated that strong, desirable human African specimens were selected, because they could do hard work, survive the treatment, and procreate more of the same.    
To be fair to the southerners, I cannot speak with authority on this subject, because living in VA didn't seem that different from living in MA, and I have only been to FL for a few days twice.   M
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2008/06/11/president-obama-many-white-supremacists-are-celebrating/
http://media.www.thewheatonwire.com/media/storage/paper1134/news/2010/10/27/News/BosLun.Democratic.Presidency.Leads.To.Increase.In.White.Supremacy.Movements-3950794.shtml
http://www.civilrights.org/publications/hatecrimes/white-supremacist.html



Real0ne -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 11:58:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I still do see alot of anti Federal government additudes down here,even in the more liberal parts of Flordia.Why is that?Is the South really mad at the Federal government because to them,it still represents the North that defeated them?I am curious about these questions.I see a few Southerns who like to wave the Southern flag around.They say its because of hertiage,not hate.I believe some of them.I am proud of my Yankee heritage.


yes the federal government.

It was the federal gov against the south not the "north". though the prezze' dante has the authority to call into service the militia to put down insurrections and uprisings etc.

I will tell you that the root cause is this.

If you borrow money from the bank and you being a high powered banker type understand how bonds work you write a bond for the money owed and it comes time to pay what options do you have?

1) you get foreclosed upon.

2) you put up collateral and refinance.


well the bonds came due and rather then having the money to pay it off they were twice as deep in debt.

(thank you mr hamilbanker)

well where do you thin they got the collateral from?

the south, by overunning the south and then even though the south were still legitimately in the union their reps and senators were NOT allowed suffrage in congress.

Meaning when it was your turn to vote the doors were closed.

It was a gargantuan land grab to put up collateral to refinance the loan that would eventual fail anyway (by design), and in 1933 the us, fdr declared the governemnt officially bankrupt.

It truly is a very smal world and you need to stop thinking human rights and all that crap and start thinking MONEY and you will have an intimate understanding precisely how its run.

Now that is the cheap seat version but there are plenty of books out there on the matter and if they talk about the debt then you know you are close to the root issues.





AquaticSub -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/11/2011 11:59:48 PM)

Points? I'm not debating with you or even disagreeing. You said you wanted to seee the source, I added some info and said that I wouldn't be surprised and also want to see the source.

And yes, strong "specimens" were selected. I never said they weren't so I have no clue why you said "however" and went into that. That doesn't mean that they weren't selected from a pool brought to them in a variety of ways. And saying that they were going for strong "specimens" is about the biggest duh when talking about the slave trade.

You don't buy a miniature pony to pull a plow. These humans were seen along the lines as horses and cows. So no need for "however" in front of that with me - I'm extremely aware of checking teeth, making them dance, etc. Something I'm sure was done at all stages.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 12:12:36 AM)

I wasn't disagreeing with you, because you didn't assert anything.   You said you wouldn't be surprised if this was true...  
quote:

2. Lots of the slaves are descended from criminals that African peoples wanted to get rid off.
My however, was regarding the same thing you were responding to.    I would think the criminals were the people selling and buying human chattel.    M

P.S. Apologies if my "however" annoyed you.   



Real0ne -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 12:15:49 AM)


Involuntary servitude was on its way out, and that slavery thing was just another dog and pony show.  Many of the states were voting against it and putting it in their constitutions.  Right or wrong the south was operating in the black and north in the red as a result of slavery. 

The south according to the LAW had a legitimate claim to what was then their property.

It was not really slavery as you can enter into slavery today if you like but involuntary servitude is unlawful.

That said it was regardless of feelings mine included, the south had a legitimate claim and the north had no authority to go in and force the states hand.

That and had they done nothing in a few years it would have been abolished in the south anyway.

Its no different today really....

You can walk into any company and they have human "resources".

The IRS considers you a "person" under the 14th amendment with the same status as a corporation, trust, association.

I forget which part but the ag department by inference refers to people as movable dirt LOL

freedom is taking the iron off your ankles and and putting on an invisible bond shackle around your neck by swearing an oath to the lord or in this case the united states.  ask any immigrant!

so whats changed?  They took the chains off and gave us "free range", and instead of hoeing the dirt we get to do what we want as long as we pay the taxes, the lords share.  I mean governments LMAO

51 kings!  50 sovereign states and 1 big cheezeee LOL



Real0ne -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 12:17:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyBossyBBW

I wasn't disagreeing with you, because you didn't assert anything.   You said you wouldn't be surprised if this was true...  
quote:

2. Lots of the slaves are descended from criminals that African peoples wanted to get rid off.
My however, was regarding the same thing you were responding to.    I would think the criminals were the people selling and buying human chattel.    M


who do you think sold them to the slave traders?



Termyn8or -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 12:20:11 AM)

UFR

1. If you think there is racism in the south now, come out of that box. It wasn't ended with slavery. As late as the 1950s it was alive and well, just subliminated. A Black named IIRC Emmet Hill was lynched for whistling at a White Woman. His body was wrapped in chain and dumped in the river. It was eventually found and there was a coroner's inquest. The ME said on the stand "Open and shut case, N_____ stole more chain than he could swim with" .

2. The issue of slavery was not the main impetus for the civil war.  The would be seceding states did not have faith in the government, especially when it came to monetary policy. There were also high tarriffs imposed that were seemingly designed to hurt the economy of southern states.

3. For more information about the reconstruction era mention Sherman in Savannah. Union forces were brutal, hell bent on punishing the south. What's more a great transfer of wealth was taking place, people were losing their land to banks. Unfair laws and biased judges ruined alot of people who had "old money". This led to the formation of the original KKK. In the begionning the KKK went after judges who had ruled unfavorably, and only later went after Blacks who were coddled by the courts for criminal acts. The KKK now bears no resemblance to the original and they are a bunch of dumb hicks now really, having attracted the wrong type of people.

4. Most African slaves were not kidnapped by White slave traders, they were conquered by stronger tribes and sold by their own countrymen. But tribes do think in the sense of a country or continent, they think in terms of the tribe. This was also true of Native Americans. I know a few and asked. In some cases tribes were so isolated from one another they did even know of each others' existence.

5. I'll reserve judgement on the cold weather affecting intelligence. However some facts are extant. Growing seasons are shorter in the north, and obviously people have to do something. They couldn't go out and work the fields with everything frozen. The assertion may have merit, but I am not ready to accept it as fact at this time.

The fact is, no state will attempt to secede. The consequences of attempted secession were demonstrated quite clearly after the civil war. You hear of a call for it from time to time but it never goes anywhere. It's tantamount to suicide. At this juncture in history, even if all 48 contiguous states seceded, there would have to be treaties for a common defense or we risk many unpleasant possibilities. Once unified militarily, what would be the point ?

T



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