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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 8:30:45 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

Pah, answer me a straight question.
Given that the usa government is currently spending ~1trillion US$ per year more than it's receiving in revenue, it has to borrow that ~1trillion difference.

If the federal reserve did not exist.....where would the us government get that 1tril (or however much the deficit happened to be) from?



misread the question...I think...I'll have to see what you think the answer is!

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 1/13/2011 8:32:29 AM >

_____________________________

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 8:33:06 AM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		EDIT: Ah, I see your edit. Ya should perhaps bear in mind that I'm talking to pah here :)


< Message edited by DCWoody -- 1/13/2011 8:34:11 AM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 8:34:47 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

"Could we say revert to 1912 rates, and function as we did in 1912?"

I don't care. It doesn't make shit all difference to my question. The US runs a deficit almost every year.

WHERE DO YOU GET THE MONEY FROM?



You just said we coin our money.   So we get it from us.   You should start paying interest on your checking account.

(in reply to DCWoody)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 8:35:05 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

EDIT: Ah, I see your edit. Ya should perhaps bear in mind that I'm talking to pah here :)



Yup...apologies!

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 8:39:53 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Hello?

We have no federal income tax before the Federal Reserve, a private corporation was installed.  None. Nada. Zilch.

You paid NOTHING in federal income taxes in 1912.

You do now tho. Aint that some happy shtt?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 8:46:31 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		LOL

Anyone alive who paid taxes in 1912 would be 110 years old, assuming they started working at age 12.

T

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 8:47:53 AM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline 		"So we get it from us."

That is not an answer.

Allow me to rephrase the question. The year is 1909. The federal reserve does not exist. You are the president of the usa, and running a deficit. WHERE DO YOU GET THE MONEY FROM?

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 8:49:34 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Hello?

We have no federal income tax before the Federal Reserve, a private corporation was installed. None. Nada. Zilch.

You paid NOTHING in federal income taxes in 1912.

You do now tho. Aint that some happy shtt?




Wrong.

The Revenue Act of 1862 (July 1, 1862, Ch. 119, 12 Stat. 432), was passed by the United States Congress to help fund the American Civil War. The Act was signed into law by President Abraham Lincoln, introducing the first progressive rate income tax to the country.

The office of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue was established,[1] with the Act specifying that Federal income tax was a temporary measure that would terminate in "the year eighteen hundred and sixty-six").

This Act repealed the flat rate income tax that had been established by the Revenue Act of the previous year.

To assure timely collection, income tax was "withheld at the source" by the employer.[1]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_Act_of_1862

The Revenue Act of 1861, formally cited as Act of August 5, 1861, Chap. XLV, 12 Stat. 292, included the first U.S. Federal income tax statute (see Sec.49). The Act, motivated by the need to fund the Civil War [1], imposed an income tax to be "levied, collected, and paid, upon the annual income of every person residing in the United States, whether such income is derived from any kind of property, or from any profession, trade, employment, or vocation carried on in the United States or elsewhere, or from any other source whatever [ . . . .]”[1]

Rates under the Act were 3% on income above $800 (adjusted for inflation: $18,875 in as of 2009[update] dollars [2]) and 5% on income of individuals living outside the country.

The Revenue Act of 1861 was signed into law by Abraham Lincoln, the first Republican President. This Act introduced Federal income tax as a flat rate tax.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_Act_of_1861

According to the History of the Income Tax in our almanac, the federal income tax was first enacted in 1862 to support the Union's Civil War effort. It was eliminated in 1872, revived in 1894, then declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court the following year. In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system

Read more: The Federal Income Tax — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/federal-income-tax.html#ixzz1Avzss9oa



< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 1/13/2011 8:50:43 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 8:50:40 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

"So we get it from us."

That is not an answer.

Allow me to rephrase the question. The year is 1909. The federal reserve does not exist. You are the president of the usa, and running a deficit. WHERE DO YOU GET THE MONEY FROM?



Dude- try to focus.

The govt is supposed to coin the money.  Not a central bank.

You act like the central bank in of itself is LIFE.

You act like there is no better way- then to be slaves to the federal reserve.

and you think it should never be audited... that it is all sugar plums, unicorns, and dancing faireys.

(in reply to DCWoody)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 8:52:29 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Hello?

We have no federal income tax before the Federal Reserve, a private corporation was installed.  None. Nada. Zilch.

You paid NOTHING in federal income taxes in 1912.

You do now tho. Aint that some happy shtt?




And in your delusional, conspiratorial world you think you need the Fed to for the government to levy taxes? You think you need the Fed for the government to monetize its debt? You have no clue what youre talking about.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 8:53:10 AM   
DCWoody


Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

You act like the central bank in of itself is LIFE.

You act like there is no better way- then to be slaves to the federal reserve.

and you think it should never be audited... that it is all sugar plums, unicorns, and dancing faireys.




No, I am simply asking you a question. Where do you think the government should get money to find deficits from?

It is a VERY straightforward question. You have made many many threads complaining about the current system, so tell us. Where do you get the money from?

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 8:53:38 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Yeah Tazz,  taxation is a temporary glitch.


Merely temporary in nature.  Ask the people in IL.    HA

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 8:56:59 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		you simply cannot understand what you read. Nor can you read anything without totally misconstruing the message.

allow me to put it this way.

WE HAD A FEDERAL INCOME TAX BEFORE THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

Now, do your own homework for a change.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 8:59:46 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Hello?

We have no federal income tax before the Federal Reserve, a private corporation was installed.  None. Nada. Zilch.

You paid NOTHING in federal income taxes in 1912.

You do now tho. Aint that some happy shtt?



And in your delusional, conspiratorial world you think you need the Fed to for the government to levy taxes? You think you need the Fed for the government to monetize its debt? You have no clue what youre talking about.

I've noticed he continually confuses the Fed with the Treasury, monetary policy with fiscal policy. That's what he's doing here too.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 9:33:01 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

you simply cannot understand what you read. Nor can you read anything without totally misconstruing the message.

allow me to put it this way.

WE HAD A FEDERAL INCOME TAX BEFORE THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

Now, do your own homework for a change.


Then the civil war was too costly!    Just like todays wars are.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 9:34:13 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

You act like the central bank in of itself is LIFE.

You act like there is no better way- then to be slaves to the federal reserve.

and you think it should never be audited... that it is all sugar plums, unicorns, and dancing faireys.




No, I am simply asking you a question. Where do you think the government should get money to find deficits from?

It is a VERY straightforward question. You have made many many threads complaining about the current system, so tell us. Where do you get the money from?




400 billion in interest-  added up is 14 tril.    Interest is never created.  So hence it can never be repaid.

(in reply to DCWoody)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 9:36:30 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

you simply cannot understand what you read. Nor can you read anything without totally misconstruing the message.

allow me to put it this way.

WE HAD A FEDERAL INCOME TAX BEFORE THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

Now, do your own homework for a change.


Then the civil war was too costly!    Just like todays wars are.



The costs of the civil war was dear, in many areas besides money.

But, your assertion that there was no federal income tax before the federal reserve is wrong.

And your inability to admit that you were wrong is telling.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 9:40:11 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

you simply cannot understand what you read. Nor can you read anything without totally misconstruing the message.

allow me to put it this way.

WE HAD A FEDERAL INCOME TAX BEFORE THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

Now, do your own homework for a change.


Then the civil war was too costly!    Just like todays wars are.



The costs of the civil war was dear, in many areas besides money.

But, your assertion that there was no federal income tax before the federal reserve is wrong.

And your inability to admit that you were wrong is telling.


Except for there is no law that we have to pay the IRS.

Show me it.  You cant.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 9:47:39 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

The 16th Amendment.

Ratification (by the requisite 36 states) was completed on February 3, 1913 with the ratification by Delaware. The amendment was subsequently ratified by the following states, bringing the total number of ratifying states to forty-two of the forty-eight then existing:

The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) is the revenue service of the United States federal government.

Since the IRS is a part of the Federal Government. And Congress, which is also a part of the federal government, and gave the IRS their power to collect taxes.... gee... under what right do you believe you dont have to pay them?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 9:53:48 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Sorry Tazz,  but there is no law. 

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 60
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