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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 9:58:52 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		There is a Constitutional Amendment that states they can tax you. What part of that dont you understand?

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 10:00:56 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

There is a Constitutional Amendment that states they can tax you. What part of that dont you understand?


There is no law that authorizes a federal income tax.

Look it up.   Of course people pay because they think they have to.  But- the nitty gritty of it- is that there is no law.

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 10:04:07 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		And what do you call the 16th Amendment?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 10:04:45 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Not again. I am standing off of that issue to excrutiation. It's a broken record.

If the government were to pass a law that people had to pay taxes, whether or not they have done so, there is no need for a federal reserve. They say "pay me" and you pay. The condition, basis and issuance of the currency is of no consequence. It would be preposterous to think that this government would be able to run without income, even in the absence of the federal reserve or any other such entity.

To simplifiy it further, they don't need the fuckin' fed to collect taxes, no matter if they can or not.

The two have nothing to do with each other in that particular regard. Nobody is too happy with the portion of the taxes that pay interest [only], and suggestions are welcome. Now to make another thing clear, I also never said life would be all rosy and peachy if there never were a fed, or debt. However people would've done what had been done before - without. And having never had it we would never miss it.

And there's another thing that's getting old, people claiming we are the richest country in the world out of one side of their mouth, while shouting from mountaintops that the government is going to cease to exist soon because they will be flat broke. That they're going to close the doors Tuesday if they don't get yet another transfusion of credit, yet we are in great shape.

Does that sound right ?

T

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 10:06:43 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Even if one wanted to pay income taxes- that would be hard- considering FRNs are a debt based instrument and not an asset.

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 10:09:05 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		pahunk, what do you call the 16th Amendment if, in your opinion, its not a valid law?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 10:15:15 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

there is no law that we have to pay the IRS.


What color is the sun in your world?

Of course there is. It's why I pay them. Why do you?

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 10:16:53 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

the civil war was too costly! Just like todays wars are.


Agreed, but not the point.

I wonder how that argument would have gone over in WWII.

"We just can't afford to resist the Nazi regime."

Some costly things are worth paying the price.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 10:17:50 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

there is no law that we have to pay the IRS.


What color is the sun in your world?

Of course there is. It's why I pay them. Why do you?



It is easier to wait for the audit.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 10:22:33 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		taz, I wish this hadn't started, DAMMIT HUNKY !

Without using 55 pages here it is. The only way the logic works. I'm not saying anything else about "go do it" or anything like that.

Specific laws are written to enforce the Constitution. That is absolutely within the government's power period. For example laws against murder enforce the right to life. With me so far ? The only point for contention, is whether or not that specific law is actually valid, and/or the wording thereof defining to whom exactly it applies and where exactly it applies.

That is the only thing close to a valid argument. Even if the argument is absolutely correct, winning on that basis is pretty much a crap shoot.

I will go no further on this matter and I wish others would do the same.

T

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 10:28:37 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		New Jersey Congressman Calls for Federal Reserve Audit Recently while visiting Washington D.C., members of the South New Jersey Tyranny Response Team had the opportunity to interview the Congressman for New Jersey’s 2nd District, Frank A. LoBiondo.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 10:36:29 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Today's confusion over the Fed is based on this misunderstanding--

The Fed is deliberately set up to be independent. Countries with less independent central banks historically have higher inflation, as the bank then serves political expediency rather than consistent policy. Congress did so on purpose, and wisely. And overall, it works well.

Today's hand-wringing is in part because the Fed has done well. During the Bush administration (this is not a political swipe--previous administrations relied on the same, just not to this extent), we mitigated two recessions with monetary policy, and when the third one hit, as structural problems finally caught up, interest rates were so low that there was nowhere left to go (without switching to more dire monetary tools), leaving only fiscal policy as the necessary tool, and fiscal policy, a function of Congress, means slower solutions and political complications.

Fact is, Congress, not the Fed, has been dropping the ball, while the Fed has consistently been saving their asses. Now they've pushed monetary policy as far as it can go, and must clean up their fiscal misdeeds. Since they've created such a structural mess, it will take time (and political battles). That's just the nature of the beast. And voters are culpable too, as they were the ones cheering on expansive fiscal policies when more conservative restrictive policies (we don't have any fiscal conservatives any more, just tax cut rhetoric--and that's expansive fiscal policy) were needed. Even today, the debate is not over how to bring fiscal policy in line, but rather which way to channel the fund redistribution--to the upper, middle, or lower class, rather then how to resolve the nation's economic balance and move forward.

None of that is the concern or the fault of the Fed. In fact, without the Fed, we'd have been in a worse mess, and much sooner.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 10:43:38 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

There is a Constitutional Amendment that states they can tax you. What part of that dont you understand?


There is no law that authorizes a federal income tax.

Look it up.   Of course people pay because they think they have to.  But- the nitty gritty of it- is that there is no law.


U'S.C. 26

As I've told you over and over.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/13/2011 11:30:37 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"Today's confusion over the Fed is ......"

Yes. Many people who are on that far side, so to speak, also somehow equate the fed with the debt. That debt is authorized by congress. The fed basically does what it's told. No matter how bloated their payroll may be, they did not create the debt per se. They were instructed to do so - by the people who spend the money. And that's not even the President, unless there is an executive order floating around somewhere usurping the authority of guess who - congress.

Keeping separate issues distinct seems to be a lost art. I still hold my position against raising the debt cieling, but that is another thread so I won't dwell on it. But there are a whole lot of people who don't seem to understand, the debt cieling is not set by the fed. It is set by congress.

On another note, I wonder what Ron Paul learned in school today. Just another ton of things he can't do I imagine. I'll have to get a copy of the next AFP to see what he writes. My wait and see mode is on.

T

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 74
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