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RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 11:42:33 AM

kalikshama

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Doesn't Palin have speechwriters? She's proven she can't speak intelligibly off the cuff.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/13/keith-ellison-sarah-palin_n_808479.html

"The term 'blood libel' is not a synonym for 'false accusation.' It refers to a specific falsehood perpetuated by Christians about Jews for centuries, a falsehood that motivated a good deal of anti-Jewish violence and discrimination. Unless someone has been accusing Ms. Palin of killing Christian babies and making matzoh from their blood, her use of the term is totally out-of-line."

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 41

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 11:51:28 AM

tazzygirl

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Ok. Could it be she meant the Christians were Democrats? The Jews Republicans? Loose association, i know. But could we be missing her message simply because we dont like her?

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RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 12:53:29 PM

DarkSteven

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Tazzy, the ball's in her court should she care to explain. But she's not one to do that - her style is to complain that everyone's blowing it out of proportion and that she's getting picked on.

I suspect that a speechwriter simply used it as a genetic term for a hurtful lie, with no idea about its meaning.

The curious thing is that several conservative commentators used the same term almost at the same time. Their writers are using the same canned talking points.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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Post #: 43

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 1:29:41 PM

pahunkboy

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No one takes Palin seriously.

She has no chance at any leadership level.

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Post #: 44

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 2:02:33 PM

AlwaysLisa

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The Giffords shooting is forgetting one thing...there were other people killed. If the congresswoman had not been there, and the highest ranking official was a judge, would there be as much hype in the media?

There was an expert quilt maker killed on that day, she was simply listed as "others". So was the man who threw himself in front of his wife, saving her life. Mr. Stoddard is nobody in the media's eyes, yet to his wife, he is her hero. I'm somewhat sickened by the political agendas being furthered by this event. It's like watching a room full of republicans and democrats running after a moving train, all trying to jump on board for that last important speech to the crowd on the station platform.

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RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 2:28:00 PM

peacefulplace

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Loughner most likely has developed schizophrenia. No, I have not examined him, but I do know the signs that suggest it. I do not believe anyone's exact words caused this travesty and very little about what can prevent it from happening again. People who are mentally ill have just as much right to their privacy as those with physically ill conditions, and let's face it, there are so many loopholes in this nation's gun laws that a 14 year old child could likely go into a gun show in many states and walk out with a gun.

That is why, though I am not for total gun control, per se, I have to say that this country's love affair with guns is absolutely strange! Can't we at least use our common sense? You can live with laws that require you to prove that you can safely operate a car before you can get a license, but how dare anyone make you prove you can operate a gun before you can get a license for one of those? And why don't we have gun licenses for all guns sold in the U.S.? It would make the ones used in crimes much easier to trace. If you're a lawful owner of a gun, what do you lose by simply registering your gun? You register your car. Has the government come to take that away from you? Why allow 30 clip magazines to be sold for handguns, guns which we all know that, unlike rifles and shotguns, were designed for the express purpose of killing other human beings? If you'd like a handgun for personal protection, does that mean you are defending your home against an army, if you need that 30 bullet clip? It was obviously designed for mass murder; it seems to have done that.

As for Sarah Palin, YAWN! She had no idea what "blood libel" meant. Does she have any idea what anything means? I will admit she has a hard (headed) base of supporters, but she killed any chance of ever winning more mainstream voters with her cries of "Poor me!" victimization BS on the day that the President of the United States was delivering eulogies for the victims.

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(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 46

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 2:45:23 PM

DomImus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
4. The other valid concern - should there have been some way he was prevented from buying a gun? The system as it is in place currently let him buy a gun and a clip with 30 shots in it. While I don't like the idea of gun control, if there was some clear designation he could have as a mentally unstable man, he should not have had the ability to buy a gun. He probably would have stolen one from someone, but no point making it easy for him.

One of the folks who subdued Loughner was on "Parker/Spitzer" last night and made more sense of the whole gun issue than anyone I have heard talk about it since Saturday. A 30 round magazine seems excessive - it's not something I would buy - but I, like the man on P/S could see the convenience from a reloading standpoint at a target range so we could see why some people might want one. The point he made was that all of the hand wringing over the 30 round magazine was basically splitting hairs. The guy could have done just as much damage (if not more) with two pistols each with a 15 round magazine. There have been uniformed people all over internet forums making a big deal about the semi-automatic aspect because they don't know what they are talking about. Revolvers are quite effective at killing people. Framing this as a firearms issue misses the mark entirely.

I agree with you that the underlying problem is how can we identify these folks who need help and get that help for them or at least identify them so that they cannot be a danger to themselves and to others. I don't have any suggestions. People with a history of diagnosed mental health issues cannot purchase or own guns here in Georgia. Those with undiagnosed issues (like Loughner) are a far more gray area.

It is remarkably easy to purchase a handgun here in Georgia. I can drive to the pawn shop 5 minutes from my home and walk out in less than 30 minutes with a handgun. Of course, I have gone through all of the requisite state licensing with background checks and such and hold a valid state firearms permit. The gun control lobby would love to take guns away from everyone. That might not stop the next Loughner - plenty of hot iron on the streets. It would reduce the amount of firearms deaths in the country and probably increase the overall crime rate specifically in regard to assaults and rapes.

No easy fool proof answer.

Edited to add: I wrote my response to Steven's OP without having read any of the remainder of the thread. Palin, Palin, Palin, Palin, Palin,
Palin, Palin, Palin. I have seen baboons at the zoo who were less fixated with picking fleas off each other than you folks are with that ditzy bitch. At one time I actually thought that a few of you bordered upon intelligent. It seems I was mistaken.

< Message edited by DomImus -- 1/14/2011 2:53:07 PM >

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 47

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 2:49:15 PM

pahunkboy

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The govt is going to do what it wants.... nothing we say would influence that.

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Post #: 48

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 6:17:48 PM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: peacefulplace
why don't we have gun licenses for all guns sold in the U.S.? It would make the ones used in crimes much easier to trace. If you're a lawful owner of a gun, what do you lose by simply registering your gun? You register your car. Has the government come to take that away from you?

Because to governments citizens are enemies. They would love to know which enemies to disarm.

As for the weapon: there was a crowd, I gather, so he probably could have made more victims by knifing them in the back and slipping away in the crowd; Jews did that all the time back in the days of Josephus; I dunno if Muslims still do that, but I do know that Muslim guerrilla's still hide in the crowds.

Anyway, I would like to hear his story when he is free from the influence of drugs and after his head has been examined for an implanted radio receiver.

(in reply to peacefulplace)

Post #: 49

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 6:19:43 PM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
The curious thing is that several conservative commentators used the same term almost at the same time. Their writers are using the same canned talking points.

Gee. It's almost like the term had entered the vocabulary...

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Post #: 50

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 7:18:32 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
The curious thing is that several conservative commentators used the same term almost at the same time. Their writers are using the same canned talking points.

Gee. It's almost like the term had entered the vocabulary...

...oh come on Rich. While i'm right beside the idea that, once an idea has been introduced to the culture, it can spread rapidly..........these references were on the same day. Clearly a meme had entered right wing thinking, probably from a single source.
Personally, it makes no difference to me......listen carefully enough you'll hear memes enter the vocabulary of both sides of the political discoutrse in the US. But denying that the phrase 'blood libel' entered the debate from multiple sources on the same day is ludicrous......because it did.
Which is not the cultural assimilation of a new idea you allude to in your post.......and i suspect you know that. It points clearly to a single source in republican/palinesque strategising. And not a particulary bright single source at that.

Republicans quite rightly suggest that if a democrat is to criticise the right wing of US politics they ought to put their hand up to their errors first.

Sauce for the goose, Rich, source for the goose......

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 51

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 7:20:59 PM

pahunkboy

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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: peacefulplace
why don't we have gun licenses for all guns sold in the U.S.? It would make the ones used in crimes much easier to trace. If you're a lawful owner of a gun, what do you lose by simply registering your gun? You register your car. Has the government come to take that away from you?

Because to governments citizens are enemies. They would love to know which enemies to disarm.

As for the weapon: there was a crowd, I gather, so he probably could have made more victims by knifing them in the back and slipping away in the crowd; Jews did that all the time back in the days of Josephus; I dunno if Muslims still do that, but I do know that Muslim guerrilla's still hide in the crowds.

Anyway, I would like to hear his story when he is free from the influence of drugs and after his head has been examined for an implanted radio receiver.

The 2 pic of him look nothing alike. From a nice look- with hair- to a bloated fat head. I cant see how it is the same guy.

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 52

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 7:30:26 PM

Rule

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I have seen only the one photograph. Drugs may change someone's appearance.

If he was truly a programed assassin, however, it must be expected that a chief of police and a prosecutor and perchance even a solicitor have been put on the case to whitewash all the evidence and to obstruct and sabotage necessary investigations.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 53

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 7:46:32 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
these references were on the same day. Clearly a meme had entered right wing thinking, probably from a single source.

I don't know about that, Phil. The phrase occured to me as well that afternoon. A hysterical, baseless, accusation of murderous intent, applied to a despised population group. It wasn't just Palin being tarred with the blame, it was the right/tea party/conservatives in general being libeled with bloody accusations. If 10 guys look at the same broken thing, and 8 of them see a duck tape solution, are they getting secret talking points emails, or is that just the obvious fit of an answer? And yes. The media does operate with a herd mentality.

Nice to see you back.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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Post #: 54

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 7:59:49 PM

tweakabelle

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Blood libel - innocent mistake or deliberate reference? Here's one interesting take on the issue:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/blood-libel-the-two-words-that-spelled-trouble-for-sarah-palin-2184102.html

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 1/14/2011 8:00:05 PM >

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RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 8:54:26 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I don't know about that, Phil. The phrase occured to me as well that afternoon. A hysterical, baseless, accusation of murderous intent, applied to a despised population group.

....i believe you. You're an educated man with an enquiring mind.

quote:

It wasn't just Palin being tarred with the blame, it was the right/tea party/conservatives in general being libeled with bloody accusations.

....well, thats not entirely true. i began my debate on this issue (on another board) not knowing about the Democrats mp with targets all over it. So i began by criticising Palin for her map of the USA with cross-hairs. Once i realised that the visual language of violence had been used by both sides i've criticised both sides equally...or at least tried to. i've attempted to defend Palin at least once on thrse boards against false comparisons.

quote:

If 10 guys look at the same broken thing, and 8 of them see a duck tape solution, are they getting secret talking points emails, or is that just the obvious fit of an answer? And yes. The media does operate with a herd mentality.

...well, i agree with the herd mentality thing. No sane observer could argue against that. But we're talking about multiple sources mere hours apart. In some cases minutes apart. That's not a cultural meme moving along like usual.........thats a bunch of right wing spokespeople with the same advisor......an advisor who didn't think to get a jew onboard first. Because thats the real strategic mistake. Getting Palin to take point when a republican Jew could have used the phrase with impunity....and justifiably. However, Palins use of it was inappropriate. At least in many peoples eyes.....and knowing that sort of thing is what advisors are paid for.

quote:

Nice to see you back.

...got to be honest....don't know if i'm staying. But it is good to hear from you directly Rich. We may not agree most of the time but you've always argued from a sane standpoint and i value that more than gold.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 56

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 10:17:13 PM

TheHeretic

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They didn't have a jew on board? Sorry, but I reject the notion that every idea we express must be cleared through anyone who might be offended, first.

Some things change, some things stay the same. Maybe we'll find one of those rare patches of common ground while you're around, huh?

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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Post #: 57

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 10:18:42 PM

DarkSteven

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If nothing else, it would help reduce unemployment among Jews.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 58

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/14/2011 10:34:04 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

If nothing else, it would help reduce unemployment among Jews.

Yeah, I imagine diamond sales would be off a bit, but aren't you guys making it up in insurance fraud?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 59

RE: Amid all the hysteria... - 1/15/2011 6:39:06 AM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

If nothing else, it would help reduce unemployment among Jews.

Yeah, I imagine diamond sales would be off a bit, but aren't you guys making it up in insurance fraud?

Huh?

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 60

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