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Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or just on... - 1/14/2011 3:38:08 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

Sovereign immunityThe prerogative may be exercised in person or by delegation. The prerogative of conferring honours is generally (though not necessarily) exercised by the king in person, as in the case of investment with knighthood and military or civil decorations. The delegation of the prerogative often takes place by commission, issued with or without a joint address from both houses of parliament. Parts of the prerogative—generally in the nature of profit, and so in derogation of the revenue of the Crown—may be 1 There is no difference in the prerogative as exercised by a king or a queen regnant, so that the word " king " in its constitutional sense includes queen. That the queen regnant has the same rights as a king was declared by I Mary sess. 3, c. I. conferred upon subjects by grant in letters patent, which will be presumed after enjoyment by the subject for a certain time. What in the king is a prerogative becomes a franchise in the subject, e.g. chases, warrens, wrecks, treasure-trove, courts-leet. The existing prerogatives may be divided, with Blackstone, into such as are direct and such as are by way of exception; or perhaps better, with Chief Baron Comyns, into those affecting external relations and those affecting internal relations. Under the first class would fall the power of making war and concluding peace. As incidents to this power the king has the right of sending and receiving ambassadors, of concluding treaties, and of granting passports, safe-conducts, letters of marque and reprisals. These rights may be limited by international agreement; thus the Declaration of Paris, 1856, abolished privateering as far as the assenting nations (of whom Great Britain was one) were concerned. The prerogatives affecting internal relations may be conveniently, if not scientifically, classified as personal, political, judicial, ecclesiastical and fiscal. Personal.In order that there may always be an existing head of the state the king is regarded as a corporation. He cannot die; there can only be a demise of the Crown—that is, a transfer of the royal authority to a different person. On the same principle the king cannot be under age, though in cases where the king has been of tender years a protector or regent has usually been appointed for administrative purposes. The king is personally irresponsible for crime or tort, it being an ancient common law maxim that the king can do no wrong, and that any injury suffered by a subject at the hands of the king is to be attributed to the mistake of his advisers. A curious consequence of this irresponsibility is that the king is apparently the only person in the realm who cannot under any circumstances arrest a suspected felon, for no action for false imprisonment would lie against him, and in the event of the arrest of an innocent person there would be a wrong without a remedy. He cannot be guilty of laches, or negligence. The maxim of the common law is " Nullum tempus occurrit regi." This is still the law in criminal matters. With a very few exceptions, such as prosecutions for treason and offences against the customs, no lapse of time will in England (though it is otherwise in Scotland) bar the right of the Crown to prosecute. The king is exempt from taxation on the ground that, as the revenue of the realm is his prerogative, it is useless for him to tax himself. But lands purchased by the privy purse are liable to taxation (39 & 40 Geo. III. c. 88, s. 6). He is also exempt from tolls (which can only exist as a franchise granted by him), and from the poor-rate, as he is not mentioned in the Poor Law Acts. His person cannot be arrested or his goods distrained or taken in execution. The privilege of exemption from taxation applies to his palaces and to the public buildings of the state. No kind of judicial process can be executed in a palace as long as it continues to be a royal residence. The privilege does not attach to palaces which the king has ceased to use as a dwelling, such as Hampton Court. The king has also several personal privileges of minor importance, such as the title of "majesty," the right to a royal salute, to the use of the royal standard and of special liveries, &c.


quote:

When the Constitution was ratified, it was well established in English law that the Crown could not be sued without consent in its own courts. See Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 Dall. 419, 437-446 (1793) (Iredell, J., dissenting) (surveying English practice); cf. Nevada v. Hall, 440 U. S. 410, 414 (1979) ("The immunity of a truly independent sovereign from suit in its own courts has been enjoyed as a matter of absolute right for centuries.


quote:

The doctrine of sovereign immunity was a familiar doctrine at common law. "The principle is elementary that a State cannot be sued in its own courts without its consent." Railroad Co. v. Tennessee, 101 U. S. 337, 339 (1880). It is an "established principle of jurisprudence" that the sovereign cannot be sued in its own courts without its consent. Beers v. Arkansas, 20 How. 527, 529 (1858). We cannot conclude that § 1983 was intended to disregard the well-established immunity of a State from being sued without its consent.[7]


quote:

"That a State may not be sued without its consent is a fundamental rule of jurisprudence having so important a bearing upon the construction of the Constitution of the United States that it has become established by repeated decisions of this court that the entire judicial power granted by the Constitution does not embrace authority to entertain a suit brought by private parties against a State without consent given: not one brought by citizens of another State, or by citizens or subjects of a foreign State, because of the Eleventh Amendment; and not even one brought by its own citizens, because of the fundamental rule of which the Amendment is but 99*99 an exemplification." Ex parte State of New York, 256 U. S. 490, 497 (1921) (emphasis added).[8]



quote:

A State's constitutional interest in immunity encompasses not merely whether it may be sued, but where it may be sued.[9] As JUSTICE MARSHALL well has noted, "ecause 100*100 of the problems of federalism inherent in making one sovereign appear against its will in the courts of the other, a restriction upon the exercise of the federal judicial power has long been considered to be appropriate in a case such as this." Employees v. Missouri Dept. of Public Health and Welfare, 411 U. S. 279, 294 (1973) (concurring in result).[10] Accordingly, in deciding this case we must be guided by "[t]he principles of federalism that inform Eleventh Amendment doctrine." Hutto v. Finney, 437 U. S. 678, 691 (1978).


quote:

On its face, the Eleventh Amendment applies only to suits against a State brought by citizens of other States and foreign nations.[17] This textual limitation upon the scope of the States' immunity from suit in federal court was set aside in Hans v. Louisiana, 134 U. S. 1 (1890). Hans was a suit against the State of Louisiana, brought by a citizen of Louisiana seeking to recover interest on the State's bonds. The Court stated that some of the arguments favoring sovereign immunity for the States made during the process of the Amendment's ratification had become a part of the judicial scheme created by the Constitution. As a result, the Court concluded that the Constitution prohibited a suit by a citizen against his or her own State. When called upon to elaborate in Monaco v. Mississippi, 292 U. S. 313 (1934), the Court explained that the Eleventh Amendment did more than simply prohibit suits brought by citizens of one State against another State. Rather, it exemplified the broader and more ancient doctrine of sovereign immunity, which operates to 141*141 bar a suit brought by a citizen against his own State without its consent.[18]



quote:

The Eleventh Amendment makes explicit reference to the States' immunity from suits "commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State." U. S. 713*713 Const., Amdt. 11. We have, as a result, sometimes referred to the States' immunity from suit as "Eleventh Amendment immunity." The phrase is convenient shorthand but something of a misnomer, for the sovereign immunity of the States neither derives from, nor is limited by, the terms of the Eleventh Amendment. Rather, as the Constitution's structure, its history, and the authoritative interpretations by this Court make clear, the States' immunity from suit is a fundamental aspect of the sovereignty which the States enjoyed before the ratification of the Constitution, and which they retain today (either literally or by virtue of their admission into the Union upon an equal footing with the other States) except as altered by the plan of the Convention or certain constitutional Amendments.



YEH YEH YEH......

50 united kings of america.

blah blah blah!




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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 4:11:57 PM   
Real0ne


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Do I deserve this much fun?  LOL

YES I DO!
The king was in theory supposed to be present in court. Actions in the king's bench were until modern times said to be coram rege ipso, and the king could not be non-suited, for a non-suit implied the non-appearance of the plaintiff in court.

The king: enforces judgment by means of the sheriff, who represents the executive authority.

As supreme conservator of the peace, the king, through the lord-lieutenant [Shire-Rief] 
in counties, and through the
lord chancellor [MAYOR] in cities and boroughs, appoints justices of the peace.

In the same capacity he is the prosecutor of crimes. All indictments still conclude with the words "against the peace of our lord the king, [State of xyz] his crown and dignity." As it is the king's peace that is broken by the commission of a crime, the king has, as the offended party, the power of remission.

The king cannot be sued by ordinary action.
Damn neither can the state!

He may sue by ordinary action,
Damn so can the state!
but he has the advantage of being able to use prerogative process (see below). He has the right of intervention in all litigation where his rights are concerned, or in the interests of public justice, [Fed, State, County, City] as where collusion is alleged between the decree nisi and the decree absolute in divorce. Crown debts have priority in administration and bankruptcy.

Ecclesiastical.—The king is recognized as "supreme governor" of the Church by 26 Hen. VIII. c. 1, and 1 Eliz. c. I. By this prerogative he convenes and dissolves convocation and nominates to vacant bishoprics and other ecclesiastical preferments.



to fucking funny!

yeh we sure kicked those brits ass at the revolution didnt we?

that was from the encylopedia britanica volume 22

LMAO

America, land of Cognitive Dissonance


ok people tell me all about the land of the free!




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/14/2011 4:17:02 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 4:53:36 PM   
DomKen


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In the light of recent events does anyone think it might be time for this forum's ownership to contact the authorities about realone?

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 5:07:55 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

In the light of recent events does anyone think it might be time for this forum's ownership to contact the authorities about realone?


and do what ken?  arrest me for posting fucking history?

Dub me as a knight?   

Put me in prison for expressing my 1st amendment rights of POLITICAL speech?

What ken?  Jail me for pissing you off?

LMAO!!!


I know what the problem is!

YOU GREW UP ON THIS



AND I GREW UP ON THIS


LMFAO

PAINFUL AINT IT!  ALL THOSE COURT CASES ARE A BITCH AND THERE ARE SO MANY MORE!





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)
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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 5:09:17 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

In the light of recent events does anyone think it might be time for this forum's ownership to contact the authorities about realone?


He's out in left field but harmless.  And there is that free speech thing.


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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 5:16:48 PM   
Real0ne


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the problem you all have is that I support it with case law

LOTS AND LOTS OF CASE LAW! 

and history!   

I would welcome a kick ass debate with someone who can do the same instead of just the name callers and snarkers.

I challenge anyone who can show that I am wrong and prove it in practice.

In other words show me where we are what is claimed by the way we live today that is different than a feudal society.

Go for it!  Thats the challenge! 

Any retard can call names and sneer but ya gotta have the goods to argue the point!   I respect people with the goods regardless if I win or lose makes no difference.  Just put up the goods! :)


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 5:25:52 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

He's out in left field but harmless. 




...ok, i'll bite.

How do you know he's harmless?


That's an assumption in't it? And don't you think, when it comes to mental health, there might be a few more people walking around and breathing nowadays (someone born on 9/11 comes to mind) if we stopped erring on the side of caution so much?

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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 5:40:28 PM   
FullCircle


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Upside: if he is here at least he isn't somewhere else.

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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 6:15:54 PM   
Real0ne


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FR

come on people lets get down to bizzyness here!

How can anyone take any of you seriously if you cannot refute my history supported by case law with your history supported by case law?

Am I the only one who studies around here?

I want you all to show me where I am wrong not jeer and sneer and act like people who are in complete shock, dismay and tongue-tied!

Hit the history books hit lexis nexis  get it done make your case!

Compare american life today with the feuds of yesterday and tell me how we are different in "PRACTICE"?  I mean lets see that republic that was supposedly created glow in the dark!   Show me peeps!  Show me! 

Show me the "Republic for which it stands" 
Everywhere I look I see Kings and Queens for which it stands!   LOL    


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FullCircle)
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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 6:36:18 PM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Compare american life today with the feuds of yesterday and tell me how we are different in "PRACTICE"? I mean lets see that republic that was supposedly created glow in the dark! Show me peeps! Show me!

My experience of glow in the dark items is that first you have to hold them under the lamp to charge them up and then turn all the lights off. The problem is you are always in the dark, you'll thus never see society glow.


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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 7:20:14 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


Everywhere I look I see Kings and Queens for which it stands!   LOL    




...so you're admitting to a combination OCD/paranoia diagnosis?

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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 7:54:19 PM   
jlf1961


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

In the light of recent events does anyone think it might be time for this forum's ownership to contact the authorities about realone?



Considering some of the philosophies realone claims to adhere to, I would not be surprised if he does do something to garner the attention of the authorities.

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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 8:21:55 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


Everywhere I look I see Kings and Queens for which it stands!   LOL    




...so you're admitting to a combination OCD/paranoia diagnosis?




No that is my law review.  

You bring up an interesting point but its more likely that certain people here may have a need to hang on to the delusion that freedom means free all the while you pay taxes with no clue how to stop the governments increased encroachment on you and anyone who punches holes in your schizophrenic glass house you label as paranoid.  I suppose its a natural protection reaction.  After all santa clause was real too right! 




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to philosophy)
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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 8:24:56 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

In the light of recent events does anyone think it might be time for this forum's ownership to contact the authorities about realone?



Considering some of the philosophies realone claims to adhere to, I would not be surprised if he does do something to garner the attention of the authorities.


the sad part of it is they are the only ones I can talk with and have a truly intelligent conversation with on these matters aside from others who have gone down the same paths in their studies and experiences.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 8:27:56 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Compare american life today with the feuds of yesterday and tell me how we are different in "PRACTICE"? I mean lets see that republic that was supposedly created glow in the dark! Show me peeps! Show me!

My experience of glow in the dark items is that first you have to hold them under the lamp to charge them up and then turn all the lights off. The problem is you are always in the dark, you'll thus never see society glow.



well if you keep your ears to the track you will find some really kool stuff that is coming to bear in the nest few years.....  the communities of researchers are scouring the archives and the "stuff" that is coming out will really make things better for those who want freedom and unfortunately much worse for those who do not know the difference.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FullCircle)
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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 11:04:02 PM   
tazzygirl


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I have shown your sources to be wrong.

I wont do so again, because its a waste of my time. Your sources then didnt pan out, and i wont trust your sources again.

As far as being able to sue a state....


There are, however, a few limitations to state sovereign immunity:

First, a state can be sued if they consent to the suit.

Second, Congress (under the 14th Amendment) can make a state subject to money damages if the state violates civil rights of individuals.

And third, the federal government and the states waive their immunity in certain cases, such as tort cases.

Additional Notes:

•States may remove actions against private citizens to federal court.


•The United States may initiate action against a state in federal court.


•One state may initiate action against another state in federal court.


•States may waive their Eleventh Amendment protection and allow private parties to initiate action in federal court, but this is a discretionary action.


•State sovereign immunity does not extend to municipalities within a state.



http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_you_sue_a_state_in_state_court#ixzz1B5KkuMbB

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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/14/2011 11:43:30 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I have shown your sources to be wrong.

I wont do so again, because its a waste of my time. Your sources then didnt pan out, and i wont trust your sources again.

There I corrected it to singular.  Anyone posts as much stuff as I do is bound to have one here and there that is not correct, and your use of plural is a bit of an exaggeration as if to imply the greater majority of what I post is in error when the reality is just the opposite.   If you dispute that go to the threads you think are no good and prove up your point.

Why would anyone trust anyone elses citations and interpretations?   And besides I always tell people to look up every one of my sources if nothing else to verify what I say. :) 


As far as being able to sue a state....

There are, however, a few limitations to state sovereign immunity:

First, a state can be sued if they consent to the suit.

And what is different between that and the king or crown?  Did you read the op?


Second, Congress (under the 14th Amendment) can make a state subject to money damages if the state violates civil rights of individuals.

Congress?  What court is that? :)


And third, the federal government and the states waive their immunity in certain cases, such as tort cases.

Well a tort case arises if an agent traverses um....shit cant think of the term, its the equivalent of actions beyond or extra constitutional.  In those cases its not a matter of waiving a right, just like in murder its not a waiver but a trespass.


Additional Notes:

•States may remove actions against private citizens to federal court.


•The United States may initiate action against a state in federal court.


•One state may initiate action against another state in federal court.


•States may waive their Eleventh Amendment protection and allow private parties to initiate action in federal court, but this is a discretionary action.


•State sovereign immunity does not extend to municipalities within a state.



http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_you_sue_a_state_in_state_court#ixzz1B5KkuMbB



ok and again you said nothing that negates the claims in the OP. :)







< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/14/2011 11:48:43 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/15/2011 1:19:20 AM   
Aneirin


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Left field is good, having a different view of things is good, it can all be of service to mankind, if it was put to the service of mankind instead of trying to unravel history. History is the past, it has gone, leave it alone and move forward, for you will not win against the machine, it is too big and too old, let it die on its own like the dinosaurs that proceeded it.

The more one concerns themselves with that that they cannot change or influence, the more they are a waste of alternative thinking resources.


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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/15/2011 1:35:27 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

In the light of recent events does anyone think it might be time for this forum's ownership to contact the authorities about realone?


He's out in left field but harmless.  And there is that free speech thing.

It's a private site. Free speech doesn't apply. You should know better. I've had Mr. Medieval Lawyer on iggy since I joined 3 years ago. Life is too short to waste it reading moronic garbage from schizos. I've got Captain Fluoride on iggy, too. Virtually all of his threads are headlines from the news. I already read the news; I don't need to re-read it. And then he doesn't even have the courtesy to comment on the topic. Just throws links up. Thread after thread after thread... he's worse than brain about starting multiple threads. If there's anything worse than an insane troll, it's an insane troll who floods the forum with garbage.

There was a guy on the purple place, Nashville Dom, who used to start threads about the most inane trivial shit. It was like he had a bizarre form of Tourette's that caused him to echo the headline crawl news blips on CNN; you know, "crash kills 2 in Iowa" or "heavy snow in Buffalo". I mean, what is there to discuss? "Crash kills 2 in Iowa." Well, fuck-a-doodle-doo.

Please don't respond to these idiots.


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RE: Whats better? 50 Sovereign Kings of America? or jus... - 1/15/2011 2:37:19 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

In the light of recent events does anyone think it might be time for this forum's ownership to contact the authorities about realone?


He's out in left field but harmless.  And there is that free speech thing.

It's a private site. Free speech doesn't apply.

While in principle I tend to agree with that its not cookie cutter cut and dry as one would think.

quote:

Former decisions of this Court have interpreted generously the Constitutional rights of people in this Land to 512*512 exercise freedom of religion, of speech and of the press.[1] It has never been held and is not now by this opinion of the Court that these rights are absolute and unlimited either in respect to the manner or the place of their exercise.[2] What the present decision establishes as a principle is that one may remain on private property against the will of the owner and contrary to the law of the state so long as the only objection to his presence is that he is exercising an asserted right to spread there his religious views. See Marrone v. Washington Jockey Club, 227 U.S. 633. This is the first case to extend by law the privilege of religious exercises beyond public places or to private places without the assent of the owner. Compare Martin v. Struthers, 319 U.S. 141.


political speech for instance is also protected and without any real research on the matter it would seem to me that a forum would probly lean more toward a quasi-private... blah blah blah etc etc etc....


You should know better. I've had Mr. Medieval Lawyer on iggy since I joined 3 years ago.

Oh no not the iggy!  Please no OMG The iggy!


Life is too short to waste it reading moronic garbage from schizos. I've got Captain Fluoride on iggy, too. Virtually all of his threads are headlines from the news. I already read the news; I don't need to re-read it.

Look at that hunk he reads it before you post it and that is why he has you on the dreaded iggy!    LOL


And then he doesn't even have the courtesy to comment on the topic. Just throws links up. Thread after thread after thread... he's worse than brain about starting multiple threads. If there's anything worse than an insane troll, it's an insane troll who floods the forum with garbage.

But you just said you already read what you now call garbage and do not want to read it again.  you really should make up your mind you know because people wil think you have no mind to make up talking like that.


There was a guy on the purple place, Nashville Dom, who used to start threads about the most inane trivial shit. It was like he had a bizarre form of Tourette's that caused him to echo the headline crawl news blips on CNN; you know, "crash kills 2 in Iowa" or "heavy snow in Buffalo". I mean, what is there to discuss? "Crash kills 2 in Iowa." Well, fuck-a-doodle-doo.

Please don't respond to these idiots.



you and Dom Ken should get a room you know.  Both of you think you have been granted some kind of authority to control the topics on the board.  Good luck with that....  The thing to do is start your own board and kick everyone off that does not post what you want to hear.  You will be an over night wonder!

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/15/2011 2:40:40 PM >


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(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
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