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ORIGINAL: MaxsGirl

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ORIGINAL: osf


I find that fear can be very erotic, well to me anyway

Damn straight.  Alpha has stepped on my head a time or two, and it's very hot.

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ORIGINAL: lally2

usually those cute moments when its all relaxed and soft and i can get a bit playful and a teensy bit cheeky and theres that smile that tells me he's enjoying my fun and thats the only reason im getting away with it.

slushy mushy, sorry - :)

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ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

If I may follow up on your two traits, imagine for a moment the torment (or rather periods of torment) go on for years but there is absolutely no tenderness, ever. Could you stay fulfilled/sane/functionable that way? I don't think I could. I would need tenderness as well, not a whole lot (I think of myself as an energy-efficient car in terms of that fuel), but in doses administed with good timing (just-in-time timing, lol) or I would reach the "there is no point to this" frame of mine in which Exit - Stage Left would seem the only viable option.

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You have to provide the customer with a lot of the features that s/he wants (the "torment," let's say) but at the same time you have to build an infrastructure (the tenderness) that has no direct value to the customer but is required in order to support those fancy features. But how do you balance the two?

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"But what about the long-term? Do you want to live perpetually in a horror film?"

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Then, naturally, I had to ask, "Well, Ok, what if I could only choose one of those: the in-the-moment intensity or the long-term sustainability? While I may be an "Agile" slave that needs both, which would I choose, if in some theoretical space I could only choose just one?"

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

What determination are we making for what constitutes tenderness? If I view him as my benevolent Keeper and sincerely believe all that stems from him is for my betterment, then its presence isn't difficult to pinpoint. However, if I'm relying upon the personal meaning I've cultivated for the term it's likely that everyone (including him) will fall short in some capacity because the definition is self generated. As such, I'm inclined to speak his language and motivated to communicate my own as well.

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The calibration process is very meaningful to me

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and if I lean too heavily upon the ideas I've garnered over the years and am unwilling to exchange them for the new reality I'm living, how enslaved can I truly become in the long run?

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Expecting him to corroborate my interpretation negates the union in my opinion.

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But more than this, there's the confidence in the decision made at the onset on both ends. He's Keeper because he has the capacity to keep me in the manner that is gratifying and fulfilling. To suggest otherwise would imply that he's Keeper as long as things are unfolding my way or in the manner I've preconceived.

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You have to provide the customer with a lot of the features that s/he wants (the "torment," let's say) but at the same time you have to build an infrastructure (the tenderness) that has no direct value to the customer but is required in order to support those fancy features. But how do you balance the two?

You get out of the way and allow the owner to do his job. If the slave elects to see the omission as denial and cannot accept his determination that one aspect of relating is better than another, it's her choice. If she's committed to moving in tandem with him she'll adjust to the changes made. I'm not suggesting it will always be a flawless transition or even to her liking. But it boils down to one fundamental truth. Either the slave has truly entrusted her care to the Keeper or she has not. I don't believe you can have it both ways.

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"But what about the long-term? Do you want to live perpetually in a horror film?"

As if I have the autonomy to determine what the long term implies. [:D]

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Then, naturally, I had to ask, "Well, Ok, what if I could only choose one of those: the in-the-moment intensity or the long-term sustainability? While I may be an "Agile" slave that needs both, which would I choose, if in some theoretical space I could only choose just one?"

But there's the fallacy of what you're contemplating. Your choice isn't fixed and it can be altered at his discretion. Therefore, I see the real decision hinging on who you select as Keeper as opposed to the other elements mentioned. For me that's a defined role and my responsibility in the dynamic is to bend with the current. I can surmise a myriad of scenarios but in the end I'm not in the position to implement any of them once I've agreed to be his. His authority stands and isn't predicated on my agreement of what servitude entails.

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ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

Of course, in real life, that would be a mistake, but for the sake of my agile methodolgy metaphors, it worked out rather well, lol. Although of course, with agile, there's always that Product Manager. Hmm... :/

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Could you explain this more? Do you mean by calibration the synching up of your feelings and thoughts with your master's?

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Serious answer: as enslaved as he or she wants you to become. These things are not that hard for a dominant to tear down, in my experience, with or without the slave's help. But I think it's a good thing that you are cooperating with the process. It'll probably make it go faster.

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Does this mean that he can never tell you that you are right, even when you are?

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Oh, agreed. Did you feel you were betraying this ideal by speculating about what really does it for you in this thread? While maybe in a perfect world, a slave would desire exactly what her master or mistress desired, there's another school of thought that suggests that individual differences, if not too jarring, are quite invigorating and interesting--to both parties. How do you feel about this?

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In my expereince, there is absolutely no harm in that type of speculation if one is otherwise disciplined and schooled correctly in first principles, because such speculation doesn't imply anything or suggest a course of action--it's just...speculation. :)

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

Of course, in real life, that would be a mistake, but for the sake of my agile methodolgy metaphors, it worked out rather well, lol. Although of course, with agile, there's always that Product Manager. Hmm... :/

Greetings CaringandReal,

Enter synchronicity! I realized last night that I left something out or simply failed to articulate what I was getting at. Nonetheless I followed and understand the what if's you generated. It dawned on me that it was a product of isolation rather than a line of thought one would take when partnered. While finishing an excellent selection on silence I realized that element was the real inspiration behind my remarks. It appears you're adept enough to make the transition,whereby your brain seamlessly shifts from one state to the next, but many have difficult doing this. They pursue one manner of thinking and find it challenging to disconnect from that way of being when they're in captivity.

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I understand the juxtaposition. I used to do it quite frequently. But something's changed. However, the uncanny lesson that sprang forth from our impromptu dialogue (that was articulated in what I read) is the value of listening. I heard you, but I didn't really hear it in the guise you presented (completely) until stillness came. Our discussion reiterated an important lesson gained by active listening. You unwittingly shed light on internal discussions that besiege many on the kneel. While your remarks we provided in jest, for many it is anything but. However, in the strangest way our conversation has given me something unexpected. And for that I'm thankful.

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Could you explain this more? Do you mean by calibration the synching up of your feelings and thoughts with your master's?

I'm referencing the reality of calibration - the intentional coalescence between both - as opposed to the theoretical idea of what one supposes they will or will not do when involved. I recognize on a conscious level it is difficult to anticipate any aspect of servitude and at best I'm making a lucky guess. At the onset we each have good intentions and hope for a certain outcome. However, when the subject of tenderness arose it prompted an important question that I couldn't ignore. If the dominant is truly Keeper and I've consciously agreed to his exaltation, that shouldn't change merely because he rules in a manner that opposes the hoped for ideal I've crafted.

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Serious answer: as enslaved as he or she wants you to become. These things are not that hard for a dominant to tear down, in my experience, with or without the slave's help. But I think it's a good thing that you are cooperating with the process. It'll probably make it go faster.

Of course that's dependent on his desire for willful property.

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Resistance is always a factor in some regard, but continued instances of obstinacy would probably grow tiresome. I'm differentiating between what might occur due to an unusually difficult challenge versus a routine response to directives as a result of the personal makeup of the slave. I typically don't encounter men that are willing to have this sort of tug-o-war. Your comment about cooperation reminds me of a quote, "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's." If he is Keeper it goes without saying that I'm going to cooperate. But more than this, I should want to do so by right of his role and my natural deference to him. Obedience is a ratification of ones station. At least, that's how I view it.

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Does this mean that he can never tell you that you are right, even when you are?

No, it implies that I'm in for a very big letdown by clinging to the good intentions we each generate at the onset of a relationship. It's unrealistic to expect the partnership to unfold in the manner I've envisioned. It leaves no room for the personal input of the other party.

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Oh, agreed. Did you feel you were betraying this ideal by speculating about what really does it for you in this thread? While maybe in a perfect world, a slave would desire exactly what her master or mistress desired, there's another school of thought that suggests that individual differences, if not too jarring, are quite invigorating and interesting--to both parties. How do you feel about this?

Not at all. I believe that I've made a conscious decision to live my life according to the principles he sets. Autonomy is at his discretion and I don't look for loopholes on that. In my mind it isn't a matter of one existing in a perfect world, but having a keen understanding of the magnitude of what has been surrendered and the realization that one shouldn't make the gesture without a serious desire to maintain it. That doesn't imply that differences of opinion and desire will be nonexistent. But what it does indicate is my willingness to have those things altered if he desires such. I say that with the understanding that it isn't something I can customize or predict. That's the beauty of the abyss. One can never foretell how deep it extends.

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In my expereince, there is absolutely no harm in that type of speculation if one is otherwise disciplined and schooled correctly in first principles, because such speculation doesn't imply anything or suggest a course of action--it's just...speculation. :)

I think it's wonderful that you're able to do this and find entertainment in it while doing so! I was guilty of moving a million miles a minute in my mind but I'm like a tortoise these days. Your what if's have become a nice lull that is increasing and imparting a measure of solitude that's hard to explain. But I can say the omission of thought and speech has been invigorating. I don't find fault in your activities. I believe there are many roads to the answers we seek and it appears your methods are doing their job and then some.

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As always it's been a pleasure. :)

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ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

Example: most abstract reasoning--your posts are excellent examples of this form of thinking. I have a hard time understanding them at times because my brain is really concrete. I need examples and images to go with the abstract ideas if I am to grasp them. :/

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I don't often think of these sorts of prioritizing questions as serious issues for others, they're just mindplay for me, but I can sort of see how they might be.

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And the above makes another very important point: fulltime absolute slavery is serious shit, folks. Do not try this at home unless you're absolutely sure you HAVE to live this way, because you may well find yourself in a situation that is very difficult to bear: such as one in which torment is meted out without tenderness! (End PSA)

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Here's another one I need a definition for. What do you mean by "willful property?" Just a person with will? I think we all have that trait more or less. Or do you mean something more specific?

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Interesting and new (to me) ideas. There are many things in life that are very hard to cooperate with. I hope if/when I am ever faced with such things my future master has the good sense to tie me down tight! ;) I need to think about obedience as a ratification of one's station. I've never thought about it in that way before. I just think it's a necessity in a slave.

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I'm sorry, you've lost me again. If both parties have generated good intentions at the onset of a relationship (that sounds great, by the way), why is it doing the dominant party a disservice to expect such good intentions to continue? How does this shut out the dominant's input? Do you mean that doing so can lead to expectations that the master or keeper is going to always be one way when he may be different ways at different times? If yes, I do understand this. Expectations can be deadly in these sorts of relationships.

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What is solitude's import for you? And is this a good or a bad thing for you? And is solitude like the "stillness" you spoke of earlier or is it a different concept? (You see my difficulty with abstract thought? sigh--almost anybody else, I feel, would have read what you said above and grasped it without needing specific examples or additional clarification. :/ I am slow, but still, I Press On! :D )

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We have weird but very interesting conversations, don't we? :) My brain feels now like it has just run a marathon. I think I'll give it some nice relaxing exercise to mp3s so it may recover its rather frail self!

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ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

I realize I'm a little late to the party here, and sorry about that...

When I was younger, I saw a movie called Stolen Women, Captured Hearts. Dreadful movie, by the way. But it had some perks... We won't even discuss the whole hawt bi-racial thing that may in fact have been my indoctrination into the way of... no no... mustn't get distracted. What was I saying? Oh yeah... Janine Turner is captured by group of Sioux and becomes a part of their village. One of the men has a ... hankering... for her. They have a deep attraction that is shown throughout the movie, but she resists it.

In this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAbO515ZITI&feature=related she has run away. He captures her (of course). It is what he says to her to make her stop running that has stuck with me for nearly 15 years. I remembered those words, that scene, when the rest of the movie fell away for me. That he knew her so deeply, wouldn't allow her to lie to herself, made her face her truth... that is what "does it for me." Someone who can make me do that, would know me that clearly.... well, he wouldn't have a hard time wiggling into my heart.

That's all.

best,
sunshine