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RE: A quick question about grudges - 1/18/2011 7:10:02 AM

LillyBoPeep

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the tone in the OP is much different from what Siege describes. i think many of us may have gotten the wrong idea -- but at least we had an interesting conversation about punishment dynamics! ^_^ it IS interesting to hear the other side of the story, particularly in this case when the tones are so conflicting.
it seems like there's some miscommunication on what kind of dynamic you're both seeking. she was being bratty and it sounds like she got what she deserved. deliberately misbehaving would have gotten me a heck of a lot more than two swats from my late M. not ever Dom is into bratty behavior.

to Siege -- have you guys talked about this? Do you like or encourage the brattiness? Most brats act out BECAUSE they want the physical punishment, so it's odd that she doesn't like it, but acts out anyway. is there a "Daddy/little girl" component to this? or does she have a "little" personality? all brats aren't lg's, and all lg's aren't brats (*raises hand*), but there is sometimes some cross over...
maybe she wants to be able to pout or hold a "grudge" -- it's just a difference in your styles of dealing with this kind of thing.
if you don't like brattiness, it's not often something that can be punished away, since it's usually done to get the "punishment." that's one of those "find the root cause and get rid of it" things.

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RE: A quick question about grudges - 1/18/2011 8:07:40 AM

FukinTroll

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

I'm sure most D/s couples have gone through this. A sub is punished for something she doesn't think is wrong. But the Dom does. Obviously she's upset (but of course she takes her punishment like a champion). My question regards what happens afterwards. After the punishment, the dom is ready to hug and kiss the tears away but the last thing the sub wants is to cuddle with the one who caused her pain in the first place. At least, that's how I felt when it happened. But according to him, my attitude is way off base. I don't necessarily disagree. Time and time again I read stories (written by subs) of harsh punishments that ended in loving kisses and hugs. But I can't help but wonder, why? Wouldn't you be pissed? I know I was pissed.

What makes subs perfectly fine with embracing her punisher right after a punishment (especially one she felt she didn't deserve)? Why is she not upset at the punisher? I'd think everyone would be upset at their punisher. Why am I alone on this? What goes through the subs' and Doms' minds?

Ya see, this here is what we call in AA (Assholes Anon.) a moment of clarity. The rules and expectations were clear to him but not to you.
To avoid future mishaps- not just you, but everyone else contemplating a relationship- get all the shyt out on the table; rules, expectations, do the colored socks go next to the white socks, does the dog chase the mailman or do I. Basic stuff an all the other stuff too.

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RE: A quick question about grudges - 1/18/2011 10:15:38 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Siege

I am rednicky's bf.

This whole question stemmed from a recent spanking I gave her, which would be more "funishment" as some people would describe it. I told her to come help me make dinner, she said no, twice, and ran away. She returned submissively about 2 seconds later. I asked her how many times she said no to me, "two..." then gave her two spanks. Afterwards I smiled at her and gave her a hug, and kissed her forehead.

At which point she asked me, "Why do you always want to hug me after you spank me?" This question came up before, and I always brushed it off, "It's normal." "Because all is forgiven now." "Why wouldn't I?" Or some such answer. She wanted to know why I didn't expect her to hold a grudge, I told her because she isn't 6 years old. She suggested bringing up the question here, and I supported the idea.

I don't insist she hug me if she is resentful. We don't have a problem communicating our expectations. We are not dishonest about our desires. I don't look for excuses to punish her to indulge my sadism. And if you don't ignore all her other posts since the OP, we are very compatible.

I have always hugged after a spanking. Whether it's a playful spanking, and it's still fun, or it's a punishment spanking, and I want to comfort her. I've always done this in past relationships and never thought to question or examine it. It just seems right, and that's the best answer I could give to rednicky. She wanted a better answer and so came here.

I wouldn't have described having two spanks with both of us *tongue in cheek and messing around* as a punishment.

If I was asked to come help do anything and messed around, running away and coming back, in fun, I'd get some silly swipes too. I KNOW that's what he's likely to do and I would squeal and laugh at the same time. He's no need to hug me afterwards as it would be taken in the vein it was meant. But if he did hug me'd hug him too.....because I'm not stuck in some * you hit me , I must be grumpy* mode.

rednicky's post went somewhere else, it ventured into the *undeserved punishment*, holding grudges, being pissed off, feeling resentful, not understanding.....she said...

quote ** Time and time again I read stories (written by subs) of harsh punishments that ended in loving kisses and hugs. But I can't help but wonder, why? Wouldn't you be pissed? I know I was pissed.

What makes subs perfectly fine with embracing her punisher right after a punishment (especially one she felt she didn't deserve)? Why is she not upset at the punisher? I'd think everyone would be upset at their punisher. Why am I alone on this? What goes through the subs' and Doms' minds?** unquote

Despite both of you saying you have all the balls in the air.........ONE at least is on the floor. You don't have an easy understanding of each other's ways because if you did, she wouldn't be mistaking your playful swipes as punishment.....and you wouldn't be a loss as to why she does, and she wouldn't be posting in a forum about it.

While I'm quite happy to be affectionate after ANY physical penalty, she obviously isn't. She doesn't understand why people can be perfectly fine after it, while for you, on the other hand, it isn't an issue.

She doesn't think you're being fair when she's being playful, but then again, surely she must have an inkling of how you're likely to respond?

If I wasn't sharing a similar outlook with M to the degree that I felt I had to share it here, he'd be pretty pissed off. Mostly because it'd signify quite a big disparity.

Seriously, it's discussion time, that's all.

agirl

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RE: A quick question about grudges - 1/18/2011 10:29:26 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

To be fair, he's not the kind of guy who says:
"Get over here! You KNOW what you did!" *whap whap whap*
When I'm being punished in a sort of way that isn't play, he always explains his side and lets me explain mine, too. And usually these are small infractions. not something major. Maybe I don't move fast enough for him when I am doing something and get a few slaps on the ass. That may not be a big deal to some subs but I'm not a spanko. Whether it's 6, 10, or 20, those slaps hurt. And it's always over bare skin.

And the reason I posted this is because he's over my shoulder saying "You're making me out to be a monster." He says he can't explain to me why most people don't get upset after a small punishment. 'Normal' people just get it. The only people that don't are children.

So are you saying you'd prefer him to modify his *methods*..IE , Deal with you how you'd choose?

You could possibly give him a list of *punishments* that suit you?

He may like some of them ... you never know...Or you may be stuck with a guy that does things his way.

agirl

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RE: A quick question about grudges - 1/18/2011 4:56:18 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

What makes subs perfectly fine with embracing her punisher right after a punishment (especially one she felt she didn't deserve)? Why is she not upset at the punisher? I'd think everyone would be upset at their punisher. Why am I alone on this? What goes through the subs' and Doms' minds?

Greetings rednicky,

In my opinion the submissive's feelings and devotion to the individual are far greater than the supposed slight or behavior that ensued after. At no point should a problem be larger than its inhabitants. Otherwise they'd be pretty difficult to surmount. There's also the rationalization of her relationship to the other party and the expectations and requirements each have agreed to upon inception. It's a little ridiculous to hold a grudge over an error in judgment when the individual has willingly ceded that power to someone else. Or as George Bataille states:

"The executioner is the victim's accomplice."

Namaste,

~porcelaine

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RE: A quick question about grudges - 1/18/2011 5:21:07 PM

Missokyst

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funishment is a whole other deal than the way she presented it. Lots of people have play punishments as part of their dynamic. I think you two need to talk more about what you want and expect from your relationship. I don't think she gets the play part of this yet. And then again it might be that she has no masochistic needs and honestly does feel that spankings (and how the hell is 2 swats a spanking?), are not pleasurable to her.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Siege

This whole question stemmed from a recent spanking I gave her, which would be more "funishment"

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RE: A quick question about grudges - 1/18/2011 5:30:00 PM

SpiritedRadiance

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CherryNeko

If you don’t think you did something wrong, and he thinks you did, chances are you’re wrong. If it displeases him in the least, then it’s wrong, and you should avoid doing it.

If you don’t want to cuddle with him, then maybe 1) you’re resenting him, which means you’re taking it too seriously and thinking too much about something that doesn’t concern you, or 2) you really should look for another Dom. It is not natural to want your Dom away from you, especially when the punishment ended. However, I still think your problem is just lack of communication.

'

Actually No if hes displeased maybe he needs to look at himself. Its not always the sub, and if theres a disconnect it isnt automatically the subs fault.

I dont do punishment dynamics. I dont do any sort of pain play that has negative connotations Ie youve been bad im going to spank you. Any Dom who does that to me will get anger resentment and possibly worse depending on what hes done to me. It will most likely end the relationship due to how negative such a thing impacts me.

People deal with anger differently, a hug would put me into a red tinted rage, touching me at all when im angry gets me more angry.

ANYTHING that makes me resentful is MY CONCERN. Why because its EFFECTING ME IN A NEGATIVE WAY... not my partner ME.... Its up to ME to figure out why im resenting something and how I am going to deal with it.

It is COMPLETELY natural to want people away from you at particular times. Doms are made of human beings, meaning they can sure as hell fuck up just as bad as any other human being in the world. If my partners made me angry I want to be away from him, I want to leave the situation until Im calm enough to deal with it. It doesnt matter if its my boss my mother or my friends. I cant deal with people when im angry.

A dom might want to hug me after weve had it on the outs, but if im not receptive of it forcing it on me is going to make the situation worse. He might want to know everythings okay but its up to me as well to decide if this is something we can get over as a couple, or if this is something thats causing us to part ways. If im not ready for that He shouldnt be forcing it to make himself and his own ego feel better.........

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RE: A quick question about grudges - 1/18/2011 5:39:10 PM

girlygurl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

~snip~

AND if you don't understand the reason(s) why -in my opinion- it is not going to be effective in shaping your behaviour in the way he desires.

You are so very wise.

I agree completely. If the OP doesn't understand why the punishment took place some serious communication needs to take place. If a person is punished for an "unknown" reason the same behavior will most likely repeat.

After reading Sieges' post, it sounds like rednicky was being a brat. IMO

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RE: A quick question about grudges - 1/18/2011 6:06:54 PM

defiantbadgirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Siege

I have always hugged after a spanking. Whether it's a playful spanking, and it's still fun, or it's a punishment spanking, and I want to comfort her. I've always done this in past relationships and never thought to question or examine it. It just seems right, and that's the best answer I could give to rednicky. She wanted a better answer and so came here.

Sir always hugs me after spanking me. When we're playing around (funishment), I often pretend I'm hurt because he enjoys that and thinks it's cute. On the rare occasions I receive real punishment, he knows I need comfort and provides it. If I'm punished for something I don't think I deserve, we discuss it later. If appropriate, he apologizes and I can easily forgive him. If he ever refused to hug me, there would definitely be resentment. I'd think how could he watch me cry like that and not offer comfort. I'd think he didn't love me. But not everyone is like me. Make sure she knows she has the option to refuse.

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RE: A quick question about grudges - 1/18/2011 7:28:03 PM

MaamJay

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OK. I don't like brats so wouldn't condone the 2 refusals first off. I like obedience or at very least a reason why a sub can't obey right away eg she's finishing some other task I had previously asked her to do. So in My eyes, nicky was being a brat. Therefore she deserved some sort of correction. Secondly, I don't do funishment or physical punishment. If I want to spank someone ... then it's clear that I want to do the spanking for My enjoyment and for where I hope it will take them ... into some nice headspace. So I would have used My authority voice (having been a teacher, that voice is always available!) to order her to make dinner and since she had been naughty, she would be making it alone while I sat and relaxed!

However, given that it was only 2 swats, I can see how in some dynamics, that would serve as a reasonable reminder that she was being a bit naughty. I really can't call that a "spanking" ... nor would it be any kind of punishment! I think nicky and Siege need a good long talk about the whole spanking thing ... if it's something He likes, then He needs to find a context in which it is at least understandable for her, and it seems that funishment isn't it. I seriously doubt that punishment would be either. So maybe a context of "this is something I love, can you find a way to endure it to please Me?" might be the go. If she can't ... and if it's really important to Him, then maybe this is an incompatability. It needn't ruin the whole relationship, maybe she's be happy with Him having a spank partner for example. There are spanking groups where that is the sum total of all that happens.

I'm with LP ... if I get to the stage of punishment it's for wilful disobedience of a well-established and understood rule. Punishment for Me involves deprivation of some kind (eg no TV for a week) or additional chores. I prefer not to confuse something I enjoy and which I trust the sub will enjoy too (since that's one of the criteria for selection) with any kind of negative emotions.

Please you two, have a good talk over this. Work out whether nicky really IS ready to subdue herself to someone else's authority ... how important it is to her to be allowed to be a bit bratty for example ... how important it is to Him to be able to enjoy a spank and a cuddle without resentment on her part. I hope you can work it all out.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: A quick question about grudges - 1/19/2011 5:30:49 PM

OsideGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky
What makes subs perfectly fine with embracing her punisher right after a punishment (especially one she felt she didn't deserve)? Why is she not upset at the punisher?

It would have been discussed before the punishment ever happened and if I felt I didn't deserve it, it would have been thoroughly discussed. At which point, one of us will see the other persons point of view.

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RE: A quick question about grudges - 1/19/2011 11:58:26 PM

SexyBossyBBW

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I would imagine unfair punishments would cause some resentment over time. In adult relationships, I would imagine that in a dynamic where there was actual frequent punishment, there would also be an compatibility problem.

I did tell any submissive I was with, I reserve the right to be wrong (and be respectfully corrected), and we know, no one is going to punish me. So, if any funishment is going to happen, he would still have to be the one taking it. I am the dominant, but not so unaware as to think I'd always be "right." M

P.S. And what she said.

quote:

agirl
So are you saying you'd prefer him to modify his *methods*..IE , Deal with you how you'd choose?

You could possibly give him a list of *punishments* that suit you?

He may like some of them ... you never know...Or you may be stuck with a guy that does things his way.