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twistedwillow -> Lacking (1/18/2011 10:47:18 PM)
A couple of days ago I was discussing WIITWD with a friend, and we were discussing vanillas and how they just don't 'get' it. And I found myself pitying them for their lack of, growth? Not the word I am looking for, but hard to describe exactly what I mean. Kind of like, pitying them for being born deficient. I realise this is a rather arrogant view, and one I wasn't aware of having until the other day during the conversation. But I was wondering how many others have a similar view? I guess in a way I feel like I see a rainbow of colours before me and I want to share the beauty with others but they only see 2 or 3 different colours so don't understand the complexities and beauty they are missing. Not really a question more a muse, So do others have a similar view? Despite the fact that, yes, it is an arrogant view.

ryo4768 -> RE: Lacking (1/18/2011 11:09:02 PM)
When I talked with you in another room. Suddenly, I have become unable to reply to you. What has happened? p.s. The community I mean is the place you play cards, fry brains..etc with Hannibal. How many people belong to it and how long have you been a member of it?

twistedwillow -> RE: Lacking (1/18/2011 11:28:01 PM)
Oh sweet jeezus at a glory hole ... ok, Ryo, I think clearly english is not your first language so I will try to be as polite and try to be as easily understood as possible. Firstly the thread was probably removed because you are posting all over the place about the exact same thing. Secondly, I was joking, I am not a friend of Hannibal Lecter, he does not come around for dinner, we do not play cards together, nor do we eat brains together, indeed Hannibal Lecter is a FICTIONAL character. I have no interest in eating anybody, nor do I want them to eat me ... least ways not in the way you mean. Now please, kindly do not hijack my thread unless its funny.

ryo4768 -> RE: Lacking (1/18/2011 11:31:35 PM)
I am very sorry to bother you and at the same time thank you for your sincere advice.

BonesFromAsh -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 1:23:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twistedwillow A couple of days ago I was discussing WIITWD with a friend, and we were discussing vanillas and how they just don't 'get' it. And I found myself pitying them for their lack of, growth? Not the word I am looking for, but hard to describe exactly what I mean. Kind of like, pitying them for being born deficient. I realise this is a rather arrogant view, and one I wasn't aware of having until the other day during the conversation. But I was wondering how many others have a similar view? I would have to agree... it is a rather arrogant view. "Lack of growth"...."born deficient".....really? quote: I guess in a way I feel like I see a rainbow of colours before me and I want to share the beauty with others but they only see 2 or 3 different colours so don't understand the complexities and beauty they are missing. What makes you or anyone else who enjoys bdsm activities or a D/s-M/s dynamic so much more special and able to "understand the complexities and beauty" ? That would be like saying only people who like to skydive understand the ability to be free and pity should be given to those poor earthbound folks who find their freedom in another way. quote: Not really a question more a muse, So do others have a similar view? Despite the fact that, yes, it is an arrogant view. Yes, it is, in my opinion, an arrogant and very close-minded view. One I don't agree with.

twistedwillow -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 1:37:28 AM)
Thats ok BonesfromAsh, I understand why you don't agree with it, and I don't either ... I am struggling to describe it in a way that isn't arrogant, because I am not an arrogant person, and I certainly know that my vanilla friends are not deficient or lacking in growth etc ... We just have different views on things, they know about me and what I do, and to them, it is weird, and one friend who is a staunch feminist can not wrap her head around wanting to submit to a man and allowing him to 'boss me about' I think it is more to do with wishing I could show them the 'colours' of bdsm, meaning I like all the flowers they like, but I also like more\different flowers, and I wish I could show them the beauty of them, but they simply don't see it ... Not asking for approval, confirmation or any of the such, as I said, not even really a question, just a muse. Hopefully that makes more sense. EDITED TO ADD: Maybe because they and I are so close it has more to do with wishing I could share my world with them, rather than the badly worded first OP. Rather than the blank stares or the horror at my bruises etc, that I could show them the beauty of it, to me. I can tell them it is fun till the cows come home, but you can not describe the colour 'green' to someone who hasn't seen it.

allthatjaz -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 1:44:53 AM)
I think its a naive view myself. Its a presumption that each and every human being is into this but somehow missed out on it and therefore haven't been able to grow. Its also presumptions to believe that it would enrich everyone's life. It wouldn't and lets not presume that vanilla people are boring. Perhaps they are into other things that have nothing to do with BDSM but are just as enriching to them. The problem with this sort naive view is, your much more likely to go out preaching the BDSM gospel to people who really don't want to hear it, than people like myself who quietly accept that its actually a very small minority of the human race that want anything to do with this.

BonesFromAsh -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 1:53:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twistedwillow We just have different views on things... Isn't that the point? Can you imagine how boring the world would be if we all saw things the same way? Example... I'm absolutely enamoured with the flavor of extremely dark raw chocolate combined with black pepper. It makes my tastebuds sing in a way that no basic milk chocolate ever could. I have a friend, a fellow food explorer, who finds the two flavors totally unpalatable and can't understand my attraction to the treat. He likes the flavor of dark chocolate and is open to exploring the various varieties of pepper available but can't see the attraction of combining the two. People who aren't interested, for whatever reason, in wiitwd are no less than anyone else. Their "flowers" are just as beautiful and special as anyone elses and your ability to grow and enjoy different varieties of flora makes you no better simply because of that ability. I have this same problem with anyone who feels their way makes them better than everyone else. It just makes them different. Make sense?

twistedwillow -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 1:56:20 AM)
lol my friends would slap me silly if I tried to preach at them, allthatjaz. We are all quite open with each other about what we do, and discuss things as friends. But I do not say oh my thing is better than your thing you should try my thing. And I am a contradiction, in some things I am very naive, and others very worldly. I know this, but I also know I am not arrogant or closed minded, nor do I think my friends are lacking... or other vanillas are lacking. It was a badly worded OP.

twistedwillow -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 2:02:55 AM)
I get what you are saying BonesFromAsh, And I certainly don't think doing WIITWD makes me better than them, just different. I really don't know if I have explained it properly yet or if I am still floundering around with all the wrong words. But hopefully my above post was clearer.

areallivehuman -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 2:46:26 AM)
We have an old saying where I come from, "If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand."

DomImus -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 2:50:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twistedwillow And I found myself pitying them for their lack of, growth? Not the word I am looking for, but hard to describe exactly what I mean. Kind of like, pitying them for being born deficient. They probably pity us for being as fucked up as we are. And when you think about it, we are. Anyone who gets off (sexually or otherwise) on some of the stuff that most of us do is certainly not the norm. I do what I do and I enjoy what I do and that's pretty much that. No need to toss barbs at the other side to make myself feel better about what I do. To each his own, obviously.

twistedwillow -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 2:58:26 AM)
this is true, alrealivehuman. I guess I just have to be happy in knowing they love and accept me as I am, even though they don't understand what I get from it. And stop wanting to share it with them.

twistedwillow -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 3:03:27 AM)
Oh completely,DomImus. I have one friend in particular who thinks I am completely nuts and as much as she loves and accepts me, keeps trying to talk me into finding a "nice guy, who won't boss me about, and who won't be an arsehole to me" and she "can't understand what i see in arseholes" these are her words not mine. I have tried to explain that Dominant does not mean arsehole, but all she sees is a man bossing me about.

purepleasure -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 3:12:06 AM)
I explained it like this to a vanilla person once... When you are scratched, does it hurt? yes. If you have an itch, and it is scratched, does it still hurt? No, that feels good. Think of having severe poison ivy all over your body, and the only way to relieve the itching is by scratching, or piercing the blisters with a needle. It hurts, and yet feels sooooooo damned good. For service... Have you ever fallen in love? When the first glows of affection inspired you to do just about anything for the person you cared for, no matter what, how did that make you feel. Imagine a relationship where you never lose that kind of glow, and can take that kind of feeling into a relationship where there is no physical intimacy involved.

allthatjaz -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 4:15:54 AM)
I often find people who I feel would benefit from the knowledge of at least D/s. My sister is incredibly subservient, enjoys her husband being the man about the house and when she is scolded she stands sheepishly like a berated child. I have touched lightly on D/s and what its all about and she quite adamantly tells me that she's just not into that sort of stuff. I think there are many such couples that live in a happy power exchange type relationship that are happier not believing its something that the outside world would deem as kinky or a little odd. Some dear friends of ours live a 1930s type relationship but they are not into D/s as such. I'm quite envious of them actually because a relationship that finds a natural power dynamic that works beautifully without having to learn all the terms of 'scene related D/s' just feels more natural. We would call people like that vanilla and yet the D/s going on within that relationship is probably far more powerful than most scene relationships we personally know. The reason I don't tell friends is because I really can't expect them to understand. I refuse to spend my time frustratedly trying to explain what this all means to someone who just doesn't get it and I would hate to think that my friends worried enough about the way my husband and I interact, that they had to try and convince me that it was wrong and that I could find a healthier/sweeter relationship out there.

DesFIP -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 4:38:32 AM)
To a vanilla it is you who is in the monochromatic world while they have all the technicolor. If you are wired for a power equal relationship, then a dominant person will always be seen as a control freak asshole and a submissive one as a wishy washy twit who can't make a decision. To them, you are the one to be pitied. And indeed, your attitude that anyone who doesn't enjoy exactly what you do has never grown at all, is wearing blinders is beyond arrogance and well into intolerable rudeness.

wandersalone -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 4:55:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: twistedwillow EDITED TO ADD: Maybe because they and I are so close it has more to do with wishing I could share my world with them, rather than the badly worded first OP. Rather than the blank stares or the horror at my bruises etc, that I could show them the beauty of it, to me. I can tell them it is fun till the cows come home, but you can not describe the colour 'green' to someone who hasn't seen it. Many of my friends, vanilla or otherwise probably think I was born deficient in some way when they talk about their kids and I try my best to appear interested. Swings and roundabouts ya know?

sunshinemiss -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 5:13:33 AM)
I'll say this about the thread - people shore do speak they mahnds.

littlewonder -> RE: Lacking (1/19/2011 5:55:14 AM)
eehh..there are people into bdsm that I don't understand. Just because I am into bdsm doesn't mean I see life anymore clearer or more vivid colors than anyone else. It just means there are some kinky things in life that I like. I don't understand people into bdsm who think that because they are into bdsm they have a better understanding of things or others or think "we" are more open-minded about everything or everyone.

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