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a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 9:19:48 AM

defiantbadgirl

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1. High taxes on imports and elimination of tax breaks that encourage outsourcing (like the bill republican leaders voted against)

2. Single-payer health care eliminating the need for employers to pay health insurance premiums.

Please explain why these ideas would not lead to an increase in US jobs.

_____________________________

Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.

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RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 9:24:33 AM

mnottertail

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first half of number one, that would cause a worldwide catastrophic depression upon mere mention of that bill going to the floor. protectionism isnt gonna work, nowhere nohow.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 9:43:13 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

first half of number one, that would cause a worldwide catastrophic depression upon mere mention of that bill going to the floor. protectionism isnt gonna work, nowhere nohow.

I don't pretend to be an economist, but I fail to see how the huge trade deficit we have with China is a benefit.

In 2009 (most recent annual statistics), the U.S. trade deficit with China was $227 billion. This was down slightly from the record of $268 billion set in 2008, the largest in the world between any two countries. The deficit means that the U.S. exported $69.6 billion in goods and services to China (about the same as 2008), while it imported over $296 billion 9down significantly from 2008). (Source: U.S. Census, Foreign Trade Statistics)

(in reply to mnottertail)

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RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 9:47:42 AM

mnottertail

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Well we both fail to see how the huge trade deficit with china is a benefit, so that test works.

That does not suppose the answer to that tarriffing those goods in protectionist fashion is the physic, ratherit will only exacerbate the problem.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to rulemylife)

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RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 9:59:39 AM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

first half of number one, that would cause a worldwide catastrophic depression upon mere mention of that bill going to the floor. protectionism isnt gonna work, nowhere nohow.

I don't pretend to be an economist, but I fail to see how the huge trade deficit we have with China is a benefit.

The problem isn't foreign trade but unfair foreign trade. We have minimal barriers to foreign imports while China makes it nearly impossible for foerign companies to do business in China.

When we let China join the WTO they were supposed to lower their barriers to allow in more US goods. They have basically ignored that requirement (see this weeks ploy of buying 46 billion in US exports rather than announcing a dismantling of the trade barriers that keep our goods out).

(in reply to rulemylife)

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RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 10:00:00 AM

Musicmystery

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What Ron said.

Protectionism only sounds good. The repercussions are ugly. Remember, we're the world's third largest exporter.

Know why we're the world's largest importer? Because we're comparatively far richer.

That's what protectionism would fix (and has, historically, to all that have tried it).

(in reply to mnottertail)

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RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 10:04:02 AM

mnottertail

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Here, I will do this Ron fashion, Tim.

Let's say I punch you dead in the goddamn face, anyone of you. (protectionist tarrif).

What would be your response, anyone of you?

They aint buying the shit at the price we got it now, so how are we dropping more on them, or how are we making it cheaper for us to buy theirs, or evening out the disparity of payments?

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 10:07:15 AM

ElSabio

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I would not waste one ounce of energy trying to explain basic economics to a leftist.

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RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 10:07:36 AM

Musicmystery

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Incidentally,

[and no, I'm not denying there's a trade deficit, folks--clearly there IS]

This is an interesting NPR piece (I've linked to the transcript page, where you can also hear the audio if you choose) about the iPhone and the U.S./China trade gap.

Because imported goods are evaluated at full value, the iPhone accounts for about $2 billion of that trade deficit (that figure is disputed, but the point remains). However, the parts of the iPhone all come from U.S. companies, manufacturer on U.S. soil--the phone is merely assembled in China, a small part of it's value.

Presumably, the iPhone is just one example.

Tracing the Trade Deficit Back to the iPhone

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/20/2011 10:08:07 AM >

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RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 10:10:50 AM

DomKen

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That is certainly true MM but it is the exception. China would not have all those billions of dollars to invest in our debt if not for a terrible imbalance in our trade with China.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

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RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 10:11:52 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well we both fail to see how the huge trade deficit with china is a benefit, so that test works.

That does not suppose the answer to that tarriffing those goods in protectionist fashion is the physic, ratherit will only exacerbate the problem.

How would it exacerbate the problem?

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 11

RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 10:13:20 AM

ElSabio

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And here I am violating my code ....

Protectionism NEVER WORKS.

Higher taxes DESTROY. Smart people find ways to get around high taxes. It's called the black market. Single payer... a great fraud that sounds so good until you ask intelligent questions. With single payer, where is there any incentive for efficiency and effectiveness? THERE IS NONE. Competition AND putting people closer to provider causes prices to fall and service to increase. Even insurance isn't the best system because it puts you the user of the service further from the provider.

For the brain dead leftists of this country, this is just too hard to figure out because they've been through a series of schools that do not teach basic economics. Now, it is not all lost. You can easily teach yourself. The Internet can be a great tool.

But if you only get news from MSNBC and Jon whatever his name is... the usual suspects... and that michael moore character... well, just go back to sleep because the adults are now in control of the House and we are going to fix things.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 12

RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 10:15:16 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Protectionism only sounds good. The repercussions are ugly. Remember, we're the world's third largest exporter.

Know why we're the world's largest importer? Because we're comparatively far richer.

I've seen you say this before many times, but China is now the second largest economy and gaining rapidly.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 13

RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 10:17:47 AM

mnottertail

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Well we both fail to see how the huge trade deficit with china is a benefit, so that test works.

That does not suppose the answer to that tarriffing those goods in protectionist fashion is the physic, ratherit will only exacerbate the problem.

How would it exacerbate the problem?

See my punch in the face analogy

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 14

RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 10:23:44 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElSabio

For the brain dead leftists of this country, this is just too hard to figure out because they've been through a series of schools that do not teach basic economics. Now, it is not all lost. You can easily teach yourself. The Internet can be a great tool.

But if you only get news from MSNBC and Jon whatever his name is... the usual suspects... and that michael moore character... well, just go back to sleep because the adults are now in control of the House and we are going to fix things.

What exactly are you going to fix?

You do understand there is a Senate controlled by Democrats and a Democratic President.

But enjoy your fantasy world.

And why do I smell the distinct scent of a sock puppet who keeps getting banned?

(in reply to ElSabio)

Post #: 15

RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 10:26:37 AM

tazzygirl

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Funny how you are breaking your own code to rail against what everyone else is agreeing upon.

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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to ElSabio)

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RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 10:36:09 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Funny how you are breaking your own code to rail against what everyone else is agreeing upon.

Cuckybuns has a new profile.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 17

RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 10:45:19 AM

tazzygirl

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A distinct possibility.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 18

RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 11:22:59 AM

popeye1250

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One thing is for sure, whatever it is that we're doing now is not "capitalism."
In capitalism you don't "help" your competition! We're currently giving "foreign aid" to more than 130 foreign countries! Under the guise of course of,....."developing new markets." I didn't realise that it was the U.S. Taxpayer's *responsability* to "develop new markets." How does (that) work? Any why does our federal government want to get the *Taxpayers* involved in such things without consulting us?
You'd think that after 40 years of "foreign aid" that all those "markets" would have been "developed" long ago and that the "foreign aid" would have ended long ago!
How long does it take for a country to "develope?" Five, ten years tops?
And also that the govt would have said "Thankyou" to the Taxpayers and *paid them back* with a nice fat check in the mail of say $30-$40 k each. Or, perhaps the big cos. from the Taxpayer's money could do that?
I had a professor in college decades ago who told us on the very first day of class; "I'm going to teach you all how to be Capitalists and BURY your competition!"
It sounds like maybe we're trying to engage in a "kinder, gentler" form of Capitalism? How does one "help" your competition and be a Capitalist at the same time? (Sounds like quite the trick!)
And why would you want to "help develop" countries that could one day be *your* competition and cut into your profits?
This simply doesn't make sense from a Capitalistic point of view.
I think Communist China has a better idea of what Capitalism is these days.
Also, in Capitalism, if you can't find workers at a certain wage and benefit level, you raise those wages and benefits until you can, you don't close factories and move them to foreign countries or hire illegal aliens.
There's a lot more to life than being able to aquire cheap goods made in foreign countries by slave labor. How does that make your life better?
It's funny, most people think China has the hammer over us because of all the money we owe them. But, if we can't pay them back I'd say that (we) have the hammer over (them.) Debt can be used as a "weapon" it seems.
"This isn't your father's capitalism."

"Protectionism never works."
Well gee, it's working out pretty well for China isn't it?

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 1/20/2011 11:47:59 AM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 19

RE: a challenge for republicans - 1/20/2011 11:32:47 AM

defiantbadgirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElSabio

And here I am violating my code ....

Protectionism NEVER WORKS.

Higher taxes DESTROY.

Then why was the economy so much better before taxes were lowered for the rich? Why was the middle class so strong back then? Why was one person able to make enough money to support a family? If you're correct in what you say, wouldn't the economy be stronger now than it was then?

Single payer... a great fraud that sounds so good until you ask intelligent questions. With single payer, where is there any incentive for efficiency and effectiveness? THERE IS NONE.

With single payer, doctors get bonuses based on the number of patients they successfully treat. With insurance companies, doctors receive bonuses for refusing to treat. You really need to watch Sicko.

insurance isn't the best system because it puts you the user of the service further from the provider.

I agree.

With single-payer, everybody receives health care. Because the cost is spread out among the healthy as well as the sick, everybody pays less. Employers who outsource work to avoid paying insurance premiums would no longer have a reason to do. Older workers wouldn't be terminated and replaced with younger workers to keep company insurance premiums down. Companies would no longer be responsible for paying insurance premiums.

_____________________________

Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.

Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to ElSabio)

Post #: 20

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