Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health... - 1/20/2011 5:08:29 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		Interesting article from that bleeding heart publication, Forbes.

quote:

In July of 1798, Congress passed – and President John Adams signed - “An Act for the Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen.” The law authorized the creation of a government operated marine hospital service and mandated that privately employed sailors be required to purchase health care insurance.

Keep in mind that the 5th Congress did not really need to struggle over the intentions of the drafters of the Constitutions in creating this Act as many of its members were the drafters of the Constitution.

And when the Bill came to the desk of President John Adams for signature, I think it’s safe to assume that the man in that chair had a pretty good grasp on what the framers had in mind.


ETA quote from the article.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 1/20/2011 5:27:39 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates He... - 1/20/2011 5:31:10 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
"Each of us has the option to turn down employment that would require us to purchase private health insurance under the health care reform law."

Wrong. If you dont have insurance through an employer you are forced to buy it individually. That is the difference between AbomiCare care and the Maritime law.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates He... - 1/20/2011 5:34:23 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		So I guess it did not work out then?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates He... - 1/20/2011 5:36:40 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		Well, technically one has the right the persist in job-hunting until one finds a position that provides insurance.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates He... - 1/20/2011 5:43:21 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Well, technically one has the right the persist in job-hunting until one finds a position that provides insurance.


Except the inevitable and intended result of AbomiCare as fashioned is that there will be no more employer provided insurance and it will be all individual mandate.

That aside, I was pointing out the error in the author's equating the two laws. While finding non-maritime employment may have been problematic he has done nothing to show that the maritime law had anything tantamount to the (arguably) unconstitutional individual mandate regardless of industry.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates He... - 1/20/2011 5:53:14 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Except the inevitable and intended result of AbomiCare as fashioned is that there will be no more employer provided insurance and it will be all individual mandate.


How do you see that working? What do you see as Obama's motivation for wanting to end employer-provided care?

quote:

That aside, I was pointing out the error in the author's equating the two laws. While finding non-maritime employment may have been problematic he has done nothing to show that the maritime law had anything tantamount to the (arguably) unconstitutional individual mandate regardless of industry.


Granted, the nation-wide mandate is bigger than the maritime one. But they're both instances in which the government is requiring individuals to buy insurance. That makes me doubt the assertions of some folks that the framers would inevitably impose healthcare reform.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates He... - 1/20/2011 6:02:35 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		The soc medicine did not work- all those people are now dead!

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates He... - 1/20/2011 6:11:38 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Except the inevitable and intended result of AbomiCare as fashioned is that there will be no more employer provided insurance and it will be all individual mandate.


How do you see that working? What do you see as Obama's motivation for wanting to end employer-provided care?


He has always said his ultimate goal is single payer, and his motivation is his inherent socialism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

That aside, I was pointing out the error in the author's equating the two laws. While finding non-maritime employment may have been problematic he has done nothing to show that the maritime law had anything tantamount to the (arguably) unconstitutional individual mandate regardless of industry.


Granted, the nation-wide mandate is bigger than the maritime one. But they're both instances in which the government is requiring individuals to buy insurance. That makes me doubt the assertions of some folks that the framers would inevitably impose healthcare reform.


No, they arent both instances where individuals are required to buy insurance. Under the maritime law you can avoid it (albeit at what may be great inconvenience), under the current law you cant, period.

The nature of the maritime industry and its regulation at the time may also be very different than other industries, with the importance of trade in the survival of the country and no navy to speak of to protect the private industry, resulting in a quasi-military status. (conjecture on my part. Im not interested enough in this flawed editorial to pursue it any further).

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates He... - 1/20/2011 6:14:31 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Vermont moves on single-payer

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates He... - 1/20/2011 6:26:26 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

He has always said his ultimate goal is single payer, and his motivation is his inherent socialism.


Requiring people to buy individual policies seems 180 degrees from single payer.

quote:

No, they arent both instances where individuals are required to buy insurance. Under the maritime law you can avoid it (albeit at what may be great inconvenience), under the current law you cant, period.


Under the current law, you can avoid buying insurance, albeit at great inconvenience, by finding a job that provides it. That strikes me as an important parallel to the measure that John Adams signed.

quote:

The nature of the maritime industry and its regulation at the time may also be very different than other industries, with the importance of trade in the survival of the country and no navy to speak of to protect the private industry, resulting in a quasi-military status. (conjecture on my part..


Intriguing possibility.

quote:

Im not interested enough in this flawed editorial to pursue it any further)


It is an editorial, and no analogy is perfect. Still, I think his main point--that we err when we assume that the Founding Fathers would necessarily or automatically look askance at the current law--is interesting and holds water.

ETA: Thanks for pursuing this as far as you did. You gave me some good food for thought.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 1/20/2011 6:28:33 PM >

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates He... - 1/21/2011 2:50:23 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Yeah the HCR law is designed to do away with employer provided health insurance. That's why a small business tax credit that pays up to 35% of health insuarnce premiums is part of the law.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/05/17/tax-credits-are-first-step-health-insurance-reform-small-businesses

Wait a minute....

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 11
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798 Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.125