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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/21/2011 10:07:39 PM   
susan34B


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That's art?If art is a way of expressing inner emotions,then that's one mixed up person.

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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/21/2011 10:15:47 PM   
Arpig


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More of my tax dollars pissed away on crap - the National Gallery is a fucking disgrace and a money pit, those running it should have been sacked years ago


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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 5:01:04 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I dislike modern art.

I actually have a copy of a gorgeous painting by Klimt called Danae,

I hung it over my couch in my living room because I so relate to it.


Klimt was a symbolist. That's so close to what people now define as "modern art", as to make no difference. In fact, there are some art historians who place Klimpt on the cusp of the symbolist evolution into some modern art forms. To me, a lot of that pigeonholing is just so much hot air - I either like something, or I don't, on a personal level.

I like Danae too. I like quite a bit of Klimt's work, as it happens. But I think my fave overall would be later period Cesar Manrique* - an extraordinary man (painter, sculptor, musician, composer**, architect) ... his house (now the Cesar Manrique Foundation***) on Lanzarote is well worth a visit if ever you go there ... an extraordinary building, which he designed, with a beautiful modern above-ground area, and also a series of underground corridors hewn out of the rock, leading to rooms which are actually lava chambers (huge bubbles in what was once molten lava), one of which is massive, and was opened to the sky as a social area for his friends, back when he was alive and used to throw parties.

He also designed the layout and look of the Cactus Garden, also on Lanzarote ... doesn't sound like much, but believe me it's well worth a look.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A9sar_Manrique
**I even have his CD of his music: http://www.discogs.com/Solar-M%C3%BAsica-De-Los-Elementos/release/47889
***
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhCLSv5gac

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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 5:19:07 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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as far as the OP goes, i'm not really sure what i'm looking at. the post-grenade Bigfoot assessment seems fairly apt to me. =p I don't "get" a lot of modern art, but i'm also someone who tends to be more classics-minded.
i also love Klimt; his work has inspired me to think about pursuing textile design several times. Danae is a great one, and of course the ubiquitous The Kiss. =p Water Serpents is also beautiful and moody, and his Athena and Medicine are stately, but still lively with patterning. i love the combination of abstraction with natural modeling, patterning, and vibrant earthy, primordial colors.

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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 5:28:23 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

More of my tax dollars pissed away on crap - the National Gallery is a fucking disgrace and a money pit, those running it should have been sacked years ago


What I always find amusing is that, if you look back over art history, you can find someone making similar comments to yours at every single point that art changes or evolves; there were similar comments made, for example, of Caravaggio (and some of Da Vinci's work also didn't get a warm reception at the time either), and as for what was said about Impressionists ... well let's just say it's a good job they were a thick-skinned lot :) Van Gogh’s work was utterly reviled by most at the time (IIRC he only actually sold one piece in his own lifetime, and that for buttons), and even Michelangelo came in for some stick over the Sistine Chapel – there were petitions to the then Pope (some from very senior clergy and critics) to ask that “this desecration be stopped, and its blighted stain wiped clean from God’s most cherished house” – oddly, his inclusion of non-biblical figures was slated first by some Reformation, then later by some Counter-Reformation critics – put simply, the poor bastard couldn’t win :)

Fortunately, brighter and more open minds always prevailed, and always will. If it helps sweeten your mood any, rest assured that someone else will say something similar a hundred, indeed a thousand, years from now, if the human race is still around :) Personally, I find such comments say more about the commentator than the work itself. There’s some I don't like in Modern art, but then there's much I do. A bit like life then, which art at its best is supposed to reflect.

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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 5:36:45 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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i don't necessarily think that Arpig's opinion means he isn't as bright or as openminded as "whoever" you're alluding to who always prevails. =p openminded doesn't mean that you like or accept anything (and honestly, i'm sick of the term because it's thrown around with such carelessness towards anyone who happens to state a contrary-to-popular-opinion) -- all it means is that you accept information from all angles. you are OPEN to perspectives, but ultimately you draw your own conclusion.
people have the right to dissenting opinions. =p

similar comments have been made throughout art history, towards the work of those we now see as the greats, but coming out of the framework of their time, those comments may not be anything we agree with, but they're something we can understand. we view and understand art differently than people did hundreds of years ago, and each perspective is different between 10 modern people in a room together looking at the same work. honestly that's part of the joy of creating art. if all you had were the self-proclaimed "brighter and more open minds" you could never paint or sculpt anything challenging. =p the tendency with people to "dig" everything they see is nearly as mentally and emotionally stifling as the tendency to despise everything you see.

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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 6:04:41 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i don't necessarily think that Arpig's opinion means he isn't as bright or as openminded as "whoever" you're alluding to who always prevails


I'm afraid I'm going to have to politely disagree with you on that one.

I take you know the names of Da Vinci, Michelangelo and Van Gogh? Ok, now (without cheating and using google), name me their 3 most vociferous critics. I'm willing to bet you can't, and I know I couldn’t either. The critics fall by the wayside, and the art remains. Does this mean all art is "good"? There's an argument to be made that everything has intrinsic merit (another of my favourite artists, Yves Klein, was fairly fond of that theory) but in objective terms, no - put simply, there's a lot of crap about. And there always has been, and always will be. But that doesn't mean by implication that all of a certain form or style of art is crap.

The National Gallery in Ottawa has (from looking through some of its catalogue online) some very interesting pieces, some very good ones, and takes pride in showcasing both established and upcoming artists. It appears to be respected, both within its own country and elsewhere. To label it as "a fucking disgrace and a money pit" seems somewhat bitter, churlish and ignorant. In my opinion, of course - yours clearly differs, and that's fine.



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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 6:14:45 AM   
Aileen1968


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Preferences for something visual doesn't make someone more intelligent or less. Just sayin.
I mean seriously.

Edited to add...I thought the piece was butt ugly and had little artistic value. And I'm reeeeeaaaly smart.

< Message edited by Aileen1968 -- 1/22/2011 6:18:08 AM >


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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 6:19:16 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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whether or not criticism remains has nothing to do with someone's brightness or openmindedness, which is what you are calling into question, just because a person doesn't agree with the methods of a museum. arguing about the staying-power of criticism isn't even what my post was about. =p
i totally agree with Aileen. =p

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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 6:20:25 AM   
Tantriqu


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

What I always find amusing is that, if you look back over art history, you can find someone making similar comments to yours at every single point that art changes or evolves; there were similar comments made, for example, of Caravaggio (and some of Da Vinci's work also didn't get a warm reception at the time either), and as for what was said about Impressionists ... well let's just say it's a good job they were a thick-skinned lot :) Van Gogh’s work was utterly reviled by most at the time (IIRC he only actually sold one piece in his own lifetime, and that for buttons), and even Michelangelo came in for some stick over the Sistine Chapel – there were petitions to the then Pope (some from very senior clergy and critics) to ask that “this desecration be stopped, and its blighted stain wiped clean from God’s most cherished house” – oddly, his inclusion of non-biblical figures was slated first by some Reformation, then later by some Counter-Reformation critics – put simply, the poor bastard couldn’t win :)

Fortunately, brighter and more open minds always prevailed, and always will. If it helps sweeten your mood any, rest assured that someone else will say something similar a hundred, indeed a thousand, years from now, if the human race is still around :) Personally, I find such comments say more about the commentator than the work itself. There’s some I don't like in Modern art, but then there's much I do. A bit like life then, which art at its best is supposed to reflect.



Well said!
I was starting a diatribe with a parallel to popular taste with music [how young women shouldn't be exposed to the Waltz, how beastly was ragtime, how degenerate was jazz], but this was even better.

And of course a lot of critics are just venal: I had a painting in my entrance that was very graceful to me which I'd bought directly from the artist for a modest price. A sibling hated it. HATED it. When it was appraised four years later, sadly upon the death of the artist, I suddenly heard them bragging to others how they had always loved it and had an eye for such things [eyeroll at human iniquity; they did the same thing about one of my subs until they found out he was famous]. And yes, their art only matches their couch, too, and they prefer the Group of Seven, which put Canadian art back one hundred years.

But yes, we all have different tastes and memories; I like both Strauss families, but vastly prefer Richard over Johann II.
And booyah, if I had the $$ and a silo or converted windmill it would fit, I'd buy the Altmejd piece, but it's fine where it is, where other people can see it, walk past in disgust, or smile a wee smile and go 'OooooOOOOOooooh!'.
And I know who to invite for tea.

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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 6:26:20 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

Preferences for something visual doesn't make someone more intelligent or less. Just sayin.


Preferences no, but general attitude towards newer artistic efforts, yes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968
Edited to add...I thought the piece was butt ugly and had little artistic value. And I'm reeeeeaaaly smart.


I'm dumb as fuck, and quite liked it, so you're probably right :)

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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 6:28:44 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
And I know who to invite for tea.


Being presumptuous, and thinking you might mean me, it’ll have to be coffee ;)

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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 6:36:34 AM   
Aileen1968


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968
Edited to add...I thought the piece was butt ugly and had little artistic value. And I'm reeeeeaaaly smart.


I'm dumb as fuck, and quite liked it, so you're probably right :)



Ha!

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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 6:39:10 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968
Ha!


See? Way too intellectual a comeback for me to deal with! :)

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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 6:44:30 AM   
Aileen1968


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968
Ha!


See? Way too intellectual a comeback for me to deal with! :)



I'm good like that. Happy Saturday!

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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 6:49:24 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968
I'm good like that. Happy Saturday!


You too, although I'm too fick to know what day of the week it is.

Duuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrr.

;)

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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 6:57:27 AM   
GreedyTop


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~FR~
ok, after looking at it several times, I'm still on the fence as to whether I like it or not.

it's kinda cool, in an "ooooh!!  SHINY!!!!" kinda way. but on the other hand, it looks to me like a bunch of stuff just randomly thrown together (like the artist got distracted by Ooooh! Shiny!!!).

I'm more inclined towards the classics, I guess. Vermeer, Rembrandt, etc

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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 7:08:54 AM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

Lol, Rorschach would go orgasmic over that: you see decay, where others see life, you see the cup as half-full, but half-full of maggots . . . hmmmm . . .

Probably the photos don't do it justice, you have to be there.

A cup full of maggots yum, now you're talking. I hear that swallowing them without chewing in order to feel them crawling about in your stomach is quite the experience to be had.


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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 7:10:59 AM   
windchymes


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RE: La Grande Petite Morte: an orgasm captured - 1/22/2011 7:16:41 AM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

~FR~
ok, after looking at it several times, I'm still on the fence as to whether I like it or not.


Good! In that case it's making you think, and that's a good thing.

Art should challenge people. I was staunchly anti-modern art for years, and highly dismissive of it, until I went to a certain exhibition and suddenly realised that I quite liked some of the pieces, but in order to reach that conclusion I had stared at and studied one piece for about half an hour – I didn't know what to make of it.

And of course if, having considered it, you decide you hate it, that's fine too, because you've gone through the process of applying your intellect to it, rather than just saying “crap, hate it, next”.

What I like most about some modern art is that I can like a piece, but not know why. I find that fascinating, because for almost anything else positive in my life I can tell you precisely why I like it, or what I find positive about it. But not with some forms of art. I have a friend who is a very successful modern art restorer and archivist/curator (I can’t give any details because it would be very easy if I told you which collections he works for to work out who he is, coz he’s pretty well known) and so I've been lucky enough to see, privately, some of the most interesting pieces of our time. Some of them I can’t stand, some I quite like, and some I think are just wonderful. He was also brilliant, in my early days of learning about art, to be able to say “well if you like X, you should look at Y”, and so on.

One of my faves is Yves Klein; “barking mad” doesn't do him justice. I think there's something wonderful about composing a 25 minute musical piece, for an entire orchestra, comprising only one note, having it played in an auditorium (by a full, presumably somewhat perplexed, orchestra, in person), while you paint your gorgeous wife blue (a shade of blue he came up with, BTW – International Klein Blue), and then use her as a sort of brush by dragging her around a vast canvas for the length of the orchestra’s playing.

Or painting several different canvasses composed wholly and only of that one shade of ultramarine that was his (literally) trademark colour. I've seen several of them, and yes they are different. The brush strokes, the layering ... I lack the understanding to explain why they are, but they are.

Or how about this, another of his crazy schemes: “Particularly notorious was The Specialization of Sensibility in the Raw Material State into Stabilized Pictorial Sensibility, The Void, a show hosted by the Iris Clert gallery in 1958.

On its opening night, guests received invitations written in ultramarine ink with a specially–made IKB stamp, and were served blue cocktails upon entering the gallery via a hallway also covered in IKB. Two uniformed Republican guards stood outside, cranking up the sense of occasion, while the street heaved with crowds jostling to take a look.

Once inside, however, the visitors were confronted by a bare, white space, utterly devoid of furniture save a glass display cabinet. The exhibition was about nothing. Rumours abound of fights breaking out and outraged guests storming out, allegedly unaware that the cocktails they had just drunk would turn their urine blue the next day—to the artist’s delight.


I see that as majestic and life-affirming; others would say it’s pretentious crap.

I don't care :)


< Message edited by RapierFugue -- 1/22/2011 7:20:09 AM >

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