Ishtarr
Posts: 1130
Joined: 4/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ashjor911
May be I am being an old fashion or old school kind of guy but I don’t agree with the idea of they are not equals nor superior/inferior,
Like you say above that it’s more to the sub to do or not to do things that want to do or don’t want to do, as the sub have the final call about things. & don’t agree with that
As I see it it’s more like an army there is one commander & all follow the orders of the commander, there is no in between. (Ok they have a choice to join the army or not but within the army they have to do it to the end, it will be more than just let them go if they neglect a direct order)It’s how is life works there is God & worshipers, the Commander & the people who follow. That is the way I see it.
I thought you might bring up an analogy of an actual superior/inferior relationship to illustrate why you feel a submissive is the inferior to a dominant
You went for the army analogy.
You could have gone with a boss and an employee.
Or with prisoner and a guard.
Or with a high school teacher and a student.
Or with a dozen other relationship where the is an actual, existential power dynamic between both parties.
So I'll spell out to you why all those examples are invalid within the context of BDSM relationships.
If an army commander gives an order to a soldier, and the soldier disobeys, the commander can take action like putting the soldier in jail, or giving him extra duties, or -depending on the army an situation in question- have him executed.
If a soldier gives an order to a commander, and the commander disobeys, the soldier can take no action at all.
The commander can force the soldier to obey; the soldier cannot force the commander to obey.
= the commander has power over the soldier = the commander is the superior of the soldier.
If a boss gives an order to an employee , and the employee disobeys, the boss can take action like firing the employee, or not giving them a raise, or giving them extra duties.
If an employee given an order to a boss, and the boss disobeys, the employee can take no action whatsoever.
The boss can make the employee follow orders; the employee cannot make the boss follow orders.
= the boss has power over the employee = the boss is the superior of the employee.
If a high school teacher gives an order to a student, and the student disobeys, the high school teacher can take action like given the student extra home work, giving them a bad grade, or having them expelled.
If the student given an order to the high school teacher, and the high school teacher disobeys, the student can take no action at all.
The high school teacher can make the student follow orders; the student cannot make the high school teacher follow orders.
= the high school teacher has power over the student = the high school teacher is the superior of the student.
Do you see a pattern emerging here?
Now, lets look at these dynamics from the BDSM point of view.
If a dominant gives an order to a submissive, and the submissive disobeys, the dominant can ONLY take action if the submissive then obeys the order to follow the "punishment".
If the submissive again refuses to follow the order to take the "punishment" the dominant can take NO OTHER ACTION to punish the submissive. The ONLY thing the dominant can do is end the relationship, or ignore the fact that the submissive has disobeyed.
If a submissive gives an order to a dominant, and the dominant disobeys, the submissive can ONLY take action if the dominant then obeys the order to follow the "punishment".
If the dominant again refuses to follow the order to take the "punishment" the submissive can take NO OTHER ACTION to punish the dominant. The ONLY thing the submissive can do is end the relationship, or ignore the fact that the dominant has disobeyed.
The dominant CANNOT make the submissive follow orders; the submissive cannot make the dominant follow orders.
= neither the dominant, nor the submissive have power over each other = seeing that neither party has power over the other, it's wrong to claim that one is superior and the other is inferior.
They are not equal, because they are not the same, and they are not fulfilling the same role.
But seeing that neither of them has any form of actual power over the other one, they are not inferior or superior to each other either...
They are simple different from each other.
Now, does that make things a little more clearly to you?
You weren't your slave's superior, because you had no power over her.
You PRETENDED to have power over her, because she PRETENDED to obey you.
She was, in fact, not obeying you, but instead doing what SHE wanted to do at the time.
The fact that she just happened to want to do the same thing as you wanted her to do gave you the illusion that she was obeying you.
This apparently also gave you the illusion that you where her superior, which is clearly wrong, seeing that you did not have any actual power over her.
If she would have told you to fuck off and go to hell... there is absolutely NOTHING you could have legally done about it.
I'm not even going to acknowledge your ramblings about dictators anymore, because you clearly have a problem distinguishing fact from fantasy, consent from non-consent, relevant arguments from irrelevant arguments, and actual power from the illusion of power...
Ishtar
< Message edited by Ishtarr -- 1/25/2011 3:12:17 PM >
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Du blutest für mein Seelenheil
Ein kleiner Schnitt und du wirst geil
Egal, erlaubt ist, was gefällt
Ich tu' dir weh.
Tut mir nicht Leid!
Das tut dir gut.
Hör wie es schreit!
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RE: My own life with BDSM - 
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