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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 8:18:18 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice


quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

Try dealing with 150-200 inches of snow on a average year.Then someone can tell me what a lot of snow is really like.


If you get that much snow, though, you probably have the infrastructure--legions of plows, overtime budget for the folks operating them in the wee hours--for dealing with it. For dear old DC, in contrast, major blizzards are relatively rare, so it doesn't make sense for us to own a fleet of plows that spend most of their lives rusting. that means things may be a bit ragged when the big snow comes, but the overall trade-off works for us.


6 inches of snow is a major blizzard?

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 8:24:40 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		LOL!

No, the major blizzard was lst year, when the city was shut for several days (and digging out for many more).

The six inches didn't even get us a day off from work!

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 8:32:58 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Snow that falls at around 20 to 32 F with the temperature falling below 20F are the hardest to deal with. If the temp does not fall standard chemicals work great, at least down to around 20F, and snow is easy to handle. So your snows around freezing are actually the easy ones to clear.



I said the problem was ice, caused by snow falling, melting then freezing. You can put all the salt you like on the snow but at 0 F it will just re-freeze.


Not a problem... if the correct chemicals are applied at the correct time the snow...and ice will be melted and the road will freeze dry. Plowed snow on areas like bridges and business districts will be removed totally eliminating melting and refreezing.

You see when the temp is around freezing the snow and ice will remain fluid and easily penetrated by the weight of the plow. The snow plows will then remove the snow to pavement… The remaining snow and ice will be melted by salt.... This allows the melted water to run off with gravity.... The remaining water film will evaporate as it freezes thus drying the road completely. Much easier then when the temps drop.

But when snow and ice freezes to the surface , which it will at lower than 20 F, then special chemicals are required.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/28/2011 8:47:50 PM >

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 8:35:26 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I live in a rural area- so we dont no have the fancy latest of everything- per the snow.

But 6 inches of snow- does not bring us to a stand still like this storm did - in DC, etc.

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 8:37:08 PM   
dcnovice


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Status: offline 		Yesterday's snow didn't bring DC to a standstill. Government and businesses were open; trains and buses ran.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 8:39:57 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		a 12 hour commute is not a stand still?


Obama being stuck in traffic is not a stand still?

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 8:45:00 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline 		I didn't say life was rosy, nor that there were no problems. We came through the snow the best we could with the resources we had.

But I fear I'm wasting my pixels. It seems to be really important to you to believe no one can handle snow to your impossible standards.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 8:51:40 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		a 12 hour commute is acceptable?    How very British of you.

Groundhog Day storm may affect more than 100 million people

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 8:54:22 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

a 12 hour commute is acceptable?    How very British of you.


Putting words in my mouth while beating a topic to death. How very trollish of you.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 8:56:36 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I am glad I live where the people insist that the roads function. 

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 9:02:18 PM   
dcnovice


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Status: offline 		I'm glad DC's travails gave you a chance to feel superior about where you live. Whatever gets you through the day, Hunky.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 9:08:12 PM   
trappedinamuseum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

a 12 hour commute is acceptable?    How very British of you.

Groundhog Day storm may affect more than 100 million people



I'm from Michigan. Cars are abandoned all the time in big snows because you just can't go anywhere. It wasn't DC's fault that people are terrified of driving in the snow and caused gridlock. They do the best they can with what they have.

Do you live here? No? Then shut it.

Take your head back out of where the sun don't shine and find something else to be annoying about.

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Don't come back for me.
Don't come back at all" - Jar of Hearts

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 9:18:38 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		You guys are funny.    Rather then becoming more efficient-  you defend the status quo.

We had "no way of knowing" I suppose.

Sort of like the financial collapse.

6 inches of snow.   What happens when things cycle thru and we get 2-3 feet of snow every few days?

We have several weeks left of winter- and these bozos are already broke.  Hello?  It snows every year.

So the commuters dont mind a 12 hour commute.      Fine.   Could be a long winter.

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 9:21:52 PM   
trappedinamuseum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

You guys are funny.    Rather then becoming more efficient-  you defend the status quo.

We had "no way of knowing" I suppose.

Sort of like the financial collapse.

6 inches of snow.   What happens when things cycle thru and we get 2-3 feet of snow every few days?

We have several weeks left of winter- and these bozos are already broke.  Hello?  It snows every year.

So the commuters dont mind a 12 hour commute.      Fine.   Could be a long winter.



Hi again.

You're an idiot. DC doesn't get that much snow every few days. Last year was an anomaly. We don't need the equipment that places in BFE where you live need. Sure, it would be nice to have a few more plows on the road, but there is NO where to put the snow. We live in the city, not sure if you can actually conceptualize that, but give it a try. Not the country where you can just put snow wherever you like.


_____________________________

"You're gonna catch a cold, from the ice inside you soul.
Don't come back for me.
Don't come back at all" - Jar of Hearts

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 9:30:31 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		pa... salt is about $52 a ton in our area. At approx 250 to 600 lbs per lane mile the tons add up quickly. We had about 225 lane miles in our jurisdiction and storms would often require multiple applications and total easily 800 tons per storm. This did not include liquid calcium chloride that may cost $1.50 a gallon with 2.5 gallons per ton. Then add labor with overtime, plow blades, equipment repair and maintenance... Costs add up quick and can break a City that does not plan accordingly

We tried to build a 2,000 ton reserve with a restock guarantee mid winter. When our supplies get low in severe years we start mixing sand with the salt. This still provides traction but is dirty and the cost of cleanup must be included.

Otherwise in this age of broke municipalities budget items like snow removal are the first to take the hit.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/28/2011 9:40:45 PM >

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 9:58:08 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		The area I lived was very capable of dealing with lot's of snow.I lived on the southeastern edge of Lake Ontario.Literally Lake Effect snow can fall there and everywhere else does not see any snow.Good money for snow plowers.

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 10:10:10 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

pa... salt is about $52 a ton in our area. At approx 250 to 600 lbs per lane mile the tons add up quickly. We had about 225 lane miles in our jurisdiction and storms would often require multiple applications and total easily 800 tons per storm. This did not include liquid calcium chloride that may cost $1.50 a gallon with 2.5 gallons per ton. Then add labor with overtime, plow blades, equipment repair and maintenance... Costs add up quick and can break a City that does not plan accordingly

We tried to build a 2,000 ton reserve with a restock guarantee mid winter. When our supplies get low in severe years we start mixing sand with the salt. This still provides traction but is dirty and the cost of cleanup must be included.

Otherwise in this age of broke municipalities budget items like snow removal are the first to take the hit.

Butch


Here in the Twin Cities, both Minneapolis and St. Paul ran out of money last month for snow removal. Each city only had a certain amount allocated for the calendar year of 2010, and when they hit that number, they literally had to stop plowing the streets until January 1st, when the new budget kicked in. Had we had another major snowstorm during those last couple of weeks, I'm not sure how they would have handled it.


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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 10:12:50 PM   
zenny


Posts: 275
Joined: 2/13/2008
Status: offline 		I assume you don't understand that NoVA/D.C. area has some rather unique snow (please don't say "snow is snow!). It is heavy, wet, compacts into ice, readily melts and refreezes into sheets of ice, among other things that make it outrageously difficult to drive on and clear away. Combine this with freezing rain that disperses the chemicals laid down in preparation for the snow, hail/sleet mix laying down a layer of heavy ice on everything, which preps the ground for this type of snow... Yeah, bad times. Now combine all of this with the feds not allowing its employees to leave UNTIL it starts snowing AT rush hour.

The only people who have a chance of driving on this locality unique but typical snow are locals, not northern or southern imports, combine this with bad decisions and of course things aren't going to go well for government workers. IIRC Michigan had a similar type of snow to this recently, only 8 inches of it, and their state ground to a halt. You northerners may get a lot of snow, but you still don't know what snow can do.

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RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/28/2011 10:28:38 PM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Here in the Twin Cities, both Minneapolis and St. Paul ran out of money last month for snow removal. Each city only had a certain amount allocated for the calendar year of 2010, and when they hit that number, they literally had to stop plowing the streets until January 1st, when the new budget kicked in. Had we had another major snowstorm during those last couple of weeks, I'm not sure how they would have handled it.



I used to pull my hair out trying to figure a budget and on more than one occasion over the years I ran out of resources... What we did in that situation was just maintain main and feeder streets even if it meant just plowing and sand...then pray for sunshine and warmer temperatures.

People, and administrators, just don’t understand the problems involved and are quick to assign blame either because resources were expended or there was a surplus in the budget.

It is hard to fight and win against mother nature and ignorance.

ps... that is why our calendar year ran from March to March…I’d hate to have a budget end in December.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/28/2011 10:34:04 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: US copies UK dismal snow clean up! - 1/29/2011 7:35:15 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: trappedinamuseum


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

You guys are funny.    Rather then becoming more efficient-  you defend the status quo.

We had "no way of knowing" I suppose.

Sort of like the financial collapse.

6 inches of snow.   What happens when things cycle thru and we get 2-3 feet of snow every few days?

We have several weeks left of winter- and these bozos are already broke.  Hello?  It snows every year.

So the commuters dont mind a 12 hour commute.      Fine.   Could be a long winter.



Hi again.

You're an idiot. DC doesn't get that much snow every few days. Last year was an anomaly. We don't need the equipment that places in BFE where you live need. Sure, it would be nice to have a few more plows on the road, but there is NO where to put the snow. We live in the city, not sure if you can actually conceptualize that, but give it a try. Not the country where you can just put snow wherever you like.



The city that leads the free world- is ready for any eventuality.


Except 6 inches of snow.

HA

(in reply to trappedinamuseum)
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