RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you

RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (Full Version)

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leadership527 -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 10:03:27 AM)
Am I missing any? Yeah... submissive slaves. Carol is any and all of the things you listed based upon what I want. She's not sitting there saying "here's what kind of slave I am." She's instead saying, "What kind of slave do I need to be for my master?"

osf -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 10:18:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 0ldhen quote: ORIGINAL: osf quote: ORIGINAL: 0ldhen quote: ORIGINAL: osf I don't understand dominance without wanting to impose structure I'll hazard a guess that if he is dominant he was working on imposing structure Not all dominants or submissives want or need structure. If you do that is fine. But often there are other factors involved like how/where you live, are there ums in the house, etc. I knew how he expected me to behave as well as what needed doing and he had absolute faith that I'd adhere to the first and handle the second. Having a set structure or set of rules I had to follow would have interfered with the smooth operation of our household. structure = discipline structure isn't always apparent to others I don't see why there are those that don't seem to understand all relationships have structure My relationship with Miss Cillie Goos has structure that we have worked out where there expectations we both have though hers is mostly getting grapes, food and water Structure does not equal discipline, military or otherwise, for everyone. Not to mention we did not practice discipline or punishment in any form. Not all relationships have a set structure, often those involved prefer to go with the flow. While I do understand those who enjoy a structured relationship or enjoy or need to incorporate discipline in such, it was simply not for us. I did what i did because I knew it would please him, because I loved him, not because those were the rules or I might be punished. No training required. If whipped me you can bet it was because we were both getting off on it, period. you're not grasping the meaning of structure in the abstract

MaxsGirl -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 10:25:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf structure = discipline structure isn't always apparent to others I don't see why there are those that don't seem to understand all relationships have structure My relationship with Miss Cillie Goos has structure that we have worked out where there expectations we both have though hers is mostly getting grapes, food and water I see that we have a semantic problem. When I say "structure", I'm talking about artificial structure - those rules, expectations, and protocol that are consciously and purposefully imposed on a relationship by either member. The way you seem to define it is not what I would call structure in the context of BDSM, but I see what you're getting at. I'm still not sure if your definition fits, though, as the expectations are one-sided. He has many expecations for me, I don't have the same for him. He could choose to change the rules at any time. He could decide not to allow me food, to beat me for no apparent reason, or to reverse all that and start treating me as nothing more than a girlfriend. He could reject my submission and make me leave. He could even go back and forth between extremes. I know he wouldn't, because it would be detrimental to the stability of our relationship, but the option is there whether he chooses to take it or not. I have no real expectations* of him, because he's allowed to do whatever he wants (and frequently surprises me). So I guess you could say that I have structure, but he doesn't. Or if he does, it's is not within my rights to know what it is. *In this context I'm defining "expectation" as something I require of him, rather than something I believe he will do. I have a pretty good idea of how he will generally behave, but have no requirements for his behavior, because it's not my place to have any.

SlevinKelevra -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 10:32:47 AM)
Yep....you missed the 4th kind: Subs/Slaves which do not even mention their kink laundry list, just give themselevs whole and mention a couple of hard limits, generally "Not allow or condone harm or permanent damage to me, or others" and "no social disclosure, full discretion" ones which may also demand exclusivity, no Poly (yep that's me). And subs also come in classes, we can be a bit alpha or beta.

TotalDiscipline -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 10:50:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf quote: ORIGINAL: TotalDiscipline quote: structure = discipline discipline is a way to maintain a structure I guess there are more ways you confuse discipline with punishment discipline, training to act in accordance with rules; drill: military discipline. no I don't and we are not in the military

DesFIP -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 11:00:50 AM)
If you are sufficiently compatible, and you prefer the same framework for your life, then the dominant will not need to impose a structure as it would already have been in place. Some people build their own homes, some move into ones that are already built, some do extensive changes to the house they buy, others just do minor cosmetic changes. As far as expectations, I do have the expectation that he won't go back on his word. And here that means he doesn't announce he's poly and I have to put up with it because he agreed that he doesn't need that. If he changed his mind, I don't have to put up with it. I just have to wish him goodbye and good luck.

happylittlepet -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 11:00:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf most of us grow up with learned expectations of what we may think we want and need it takes a bit to unlearn quote: ORIGINAL: osf you're not grasping the meaning of structure in the abstract I would like to know what 'structure in the abstract' means to you.

osf -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 11:38:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaxsGirl quote: ORIGINAL: osf structure = discipline structure isn't always apparent to others I don't see why there are those that don't seem to understand all relationships have structure My relationship with Miss Cillie Goos has structure that we have worked out where there expectations we both have though hers is mostly getting grapes, food and water I see that we have a semantic problem. When I say "structure", I'm talking about artificial structure - those rules, expectations, and protocol that are consciously and purposefully imposed on a relationship by either member. The way you seem to define it is not what I would call structure in the context of BDSM, but I see what you're getting at. I'm still not sure if your definition fits, though, as the expectations are one-sided. He has many expecations for me, I don't have the same for him. He could choose to change the rules at any time. He could decide not to allow me food, to beat me for no apparent reason, or to reverse all that and start treating me as nothing more than a girlfriend. He could reject my submission and make me leave. He could even go back and forth between extremes. I know he wouldn't, because it would be detrimental to the stability of our relationship, but the option is there whether he chooses to take it or not. I have no real expectations* of him, because he's allowed to do whatever he wants (and frequently surprises me). So I guess you could say that I have structure, but he doesn't. Or if he does, it's is not within my rights to know what it is. *In this context I'm defining "expectation" as something I require of him, rather than something I believe he will do. I have a pretty good idea of how he will generally behave, but have no requirements for his behavior, because it's not my place to have any. but you always expect him to be in charge

osf -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 11:43:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: happylittlepet quote: ORIGINAL: osf most of us grow up with learned expectations of what we may think we want and need it takes a bit to unlearn quote: ORIGINAL: osf you're not grasping the meaning of structure in the abstract I would like to know what 'structure in the abstract' means to you. to me structure is the definition of the way things are if you can define something, you are defining it's structure all natural systems have structure until entropy is complete

osf -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 11:46:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TotalDiscipline quote: ORIGINAL: osf quote: ORIGINAL: TotalDiscipline quote: structure = discipline discipline is a way to maintain a structure I guess there are more ways you confuse discipline with punishment discipline, training to act in accordance with rules; drill: military discipline. no I don't and we are not in the military the fact that it is a hierarchical relationship is its structure and maintaining discipline is to maintain that hierarchy I just dont understand free form D/s

osf -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 11:50:23 AM)
some people recoil from the idea that they are not as unique as they want to believe if we were unique individuals to the extent that there were no others like us, we could not understand each other we all have things in common and at least in common with others that share our interests if that were not so psychiatry wouldn't work

IrishMist -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 11:55:51 AM)
quote: some people recoil from the idea that they are not as unique as they want to believe I disagree. I am utterly unique. There is no person on this earth who is the same as I am.

osf -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 12:08:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist quote: some people recoil from the idea that they are not as unique as they want to believe I disagree. I am utterly unique. There is no person on this earth who is the same as I am. there are many that in many ways are just like you

MaxsGirl -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 12:19:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf but you always expect him to be in charge Not necessarily. In fact, we just went through a brief reassessment period because he wasn't entirely sure he wanted to continue being in charge. Owning me isn't the easiest job in the world, after all. If that had happened, I would have stayed and continued serving him in whatever way I could to satisfy my own need for service, unless he had asked me to leave. I think had that happened we would eventually have drifted back to the way we are now, but I wouldn't have expected it, because it isn't my place to restrict or direct him.

TotalDiscipline -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 12:53:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf the fact that it is a hierarchical relationship is its structure and maintaining discipline is to maintain that hierarchy I guess we meant the approx the same... free form D/s..I guess..it is not totally free,,,within the deal people make with eachother. It is different from a job..or the army as you say. But not less important to people.

0ldhen -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 5:08:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf structure = discipline all relationships have structure you're not grasping the meaning of structure in the abstract *to me structure* is the definition of the way things are the fact that it is a hierarchical relationship is its structure and maintaining discipline is to maintain that hierarchy some people recoil from the idea that they are not as unique as they want to believe I just dont understand free form D/s Lets take this one issue at a time. You state I am not grasping the meaning of structure. Then you change that to structure in the abstract. Then you provide a definition of structure. What I am actually seeing here after reading and rereading this entire thread is frustration with the fact that some folks have failed to see this your way. The operative words there are your way. By your definition. I grasp what you are trying to state, yet again I must state that just because something applies to your relationship does not mean it is an absolute in every M/s D/s relationship. Maintaining discipline is not a requirement to maintaining the heirarchy. I think you made a good statement by saying you did not understand yet I do not think free form is a very good label for what I had or others have still. Lastly, every human is unique, yes we are biologically similar yet even there we all have our differences.

osf -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 5:34:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 0ldhen quote: ORIGINAL: osf structure = discipline all relationships have structure you're not grasping the meaning of structure in the abstract *to me structure* is the definition of the way things are the fact that it is a hierarchical relationship is its structure and maintaining discipline is to maintain that hierarchy some people recoil from the idea that they are not as unique as they want to believe I just dont understand free form D/s Lets take this one issue at a time. You state I am not grasping the meaning of structure. Then you change that to structure in the abstract. Then you provide a definition of structure. What I am actually seeing here after reading and rereading this entire thread is frustration with the fact that some folks have failed to see this your way. The operative words there are your way. By your definition. I grasp what you are trying to state, yet again I must state that just because something applies to your relationship does not mean it is an absolute in every M/s D/s relationship. Maintaining discipline is not a requirement to maintaining the heirarchy. I think you made a good statement by saying you did not understand yet I do not think free form is a very good label for what I had or others have still. Lastly, every human is unique, yes we are biologically similar yet even there we all have our differences. Structure is a fundamental, if intangible, notion referring to the recognition, observation, nature, and stability of patterns and relationships of entities. From a child's verbal description of a snowflake, to the detailed scientific analysis of the properties of magnetic fields, the concept of structure is now often an essential foundation of nearly every mode of inquiry and discovery in science, philosophy, and art.[1] In early 20th-century and earlier thought, form often plays a role comparable to that of structure in contemporary thought. The neo-Kantianism of Ernst Cassirer (cf. his Philosophy of Symbolic Forms, completed in 1929 and published in English translation in the 1950s) is sometimes regarded as a precursor of the later shift to structuralism and poststructuralism.[2] The description of structure implicitly offers an account of what a system is made of: a configuration of items, a collection of inter-related components or services. A structure may be a hierarchy (a cascade of one-to-many relationships) or a network featuring many-to-many relationships. maintain discipline in our context would mean to maintain order/rules/ritual/hierarchy and in every D/s relationship there has to be a dominant and a submissive, one establishes discipline and the other follows it words have meanings, I try to use them with those meanings I still don't understand how D/s can exist with out structure explain to me how that works when both are free to define things as they go

0ldhen -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 6:11:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf A structure may be a hierarchy (a cascade of one-to-many relationships) or a network featuring many-to-many relationships. maintain discipline in our context would mean to maintain order/rules/ritual/hierarchy and in every D/s relationship there has to be a dominant and a submissive, one establishes discipline and the other follows it words have meanings, I try to use them with those meanings I still don't understand how D/s can exist with out structure explain to me how that works when both are free to define things as they go Grins, you know what, I have explained it. Words do have meaning, yet within the context of WIITWD the word/s structure and discipline do not always mean the exact same thing out of said context. By what definition of structure this time, the abstract, Websters, yours? And again "in our context", whose context? Yours, mine, whose? Whether or not you understand it is possible. Perhaps get a bit deeper into your philosophy texts, there are no absolutes. ps; Agree or disagree thank you greatly for the discussion, Hugs from an Oldhen.

Chulain -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 8:09:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: osf some people recoil from the idea that they are not as unique as they want to believe That is awesome. Big thumbs up.

subdreamz -> RE: What kind of submissive/slave are you (1/30/2011 9:02:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep 5. service oriented ones who aren't really masochists but play because it's a way to serve 6. those motivated by love, and those who aren't as for myself, i'm a "point between" several of those. a service oriented, masochistic, slave-leaning slutty girl who is fond of control, brute strength, creativity and love. and a rational, realistic viewpoint on the lifestyle. =p lawlz. quote: 5. service oriented ones who aren't really masochists but play because it's a way to serve 6. those motivated by love, and those who aren't as for myself, i'm a "point between" several of those. a service oriented, masochistic, slave-leaning slutty girl who is fond of control, brute strength, creativity and love. and a rational, realistic viewpoint on the lifestyle. =p lawlz. So perfectly stated!!!! me too.

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