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RE: Thanks for the permission - 1/31/2011 8:39:34 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Since this one is short, I'll take the opportunity to first thank everyone for the participation in the thread.  There has been some very interesting discussion here.

OK.  Let's talk about 'My way or the highway'.

I don't really think My way or the highway is either necessarily a bad thing and I don't believe it's terribly uncommon.  In a certain way, I don't even think it's just for those of us who are in authority based dynamics.  It might get stretched to 'our way or the highway' in those cases, but still the same concept.

I think there are some folks out there who have certain agreements in their relationships that, if one partner breaks them, it's over.  An instance of cheating in a monogamous relationship can be looked at in the same way.  Of course, many folks may not know how they will handle it unless it actually does happen to them.  Some folks may forgive their partner and try to salvage the relationship.  Others will say the relationship is destroyed to them.  The latter is My way or the highway, too.

Depending on how you look at it, the same premise can be used from the submissive side.  How many submissives out there have an area that is a hard limit?  What happens in some cases where the D breaks that hard limit?  They walk.  That's a version of My way or the highway, too.

So, it's really not that much of a stretch to say an area of My way or the highway happens to be about obedience.



I think it comes down to an issue of trust. If there is an agreement about hard limits and the Domme breaks that agreement/breaks that trust then yes I would walk away. Similar to cheating, how could I ever trust that Domme again? I could not.

Here is a specific example I am thinking of: One of my hard limits is needle play/breaking of the skin. While I am very open minded and love having my limits pushed, this would only bring back very bad and painful memories. A long story short, due to an industrial accident I spent 5 hours on an operating table for spinal cord surgery. I was awake for the whole surgery. Everytime they touched my spinal cord removing bone fragments and disk framents, I felt like someone electrocuted me. For whatever reason I remember every needle that pierced my body that day. And there was a lot. All I can say is you have no idea of what 5 hours of that type of pain can do to you. Am I afraid of needles? No. But there is no way I ever want to be reminded of that.

If my Domme broke that hard limit, I would have to walk away. My mind would not be able to grasp why she would want to remind me of that type of pain.

_____________________________

Life - Its not about where you are but about the journey to get there - I prefer to choose the road less traveled

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Thanks for the permission - 1/31/2011 8:47:55 PM   
Chulain


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/27/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321
I think it comes down to an issue of trust. If there is an agreement about hard limits and the Domme breaks that agreement/breaks that trust then yes I would walk away. Similar to cheating, how could I ever trust that Domme again? I could not.

Yup. Trust. I would never be involved with a domme whom I did not trust completely. I'm not incapable of fooling myself or being mistaken, but that's another matter. And once broken, that trust is probably never coming back because a submissive is very vulnerable to an unscrupulous dominant. As I keep saying, if someone is willing to break (or bend) the law, all bets are off consent-wise.

quote:

[...] If my Domme broke that hard limit, I would have to walk away. My mind would not be able to grasp why she would want to remind me of that type of pain.

That'd be one fucked up domme. Possibly in more ways than one.

(in reply to mummyman321)
Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Thanks for the permission - 2/1/2011 1:51:10 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321
I think it comes down to an issue of trust. If there is an agreement about hard limits and the Domme breaks that agreement/breaks that trust then yes I would walk away. Similar to cheating, how could I ever trust that Domme again? I could not.

Here is a specific example I am thinking of: One of my hard limits is needle play/breaking of the skin. While I am very open minded and love having my limits pushed, this would only bring back very bad and painful memories. A long story short, due to an industrial accident I spent 5 hours on an operating table for spinal cord surgery. I was awake for the whole surgery. Everytime they touched my spinal cord removing bone fragments and disk framents, I felt like someone electrocuted me. For whatever reason I remember every needle that pierced my body that day. And there was a lot. All I can say is you have no idea of what 5 hours of that type of pain can do to you. Am I afraid of needles? No. But there is no way I ever want to be reminded of that.

If my Domme broke that hard limit, I would have to walk away. My mind would not be able to grasp why she would want to remind me of that type of pain.

I completely agree with the highlighted above.  I can't say that I see it any differently just because it's different sides of the kneel.  I don't think you'll get much argument that expecting X in your dynamic that you envision is such a terrible thing when your expectation X is trust.  I wouldn't be doing that, either.



_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to mummyman321)
Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Thanks for the permission - 2/1/2011 1:52:48 AM   
CherryNeko


Posts: 330
Joined: 12/29/2010
From: Mexico City
Status: offline 		Well... it sounds strange, but usually I see my situation like this: we are working together. There will be a final result, and if we want to get there, we need to agree on things. Otherwise it won't be done ever. Punishments are his part, obedience is mine. If I had to give him permission to punish me, it'd be my part, and then I wouldn't concentrate on what is asked and expected of me. Maybe it seems weird when you say it like that, but punishing me is his responsibility, not mine. If I wanted that responsibility, we wouldn't need each other. I'd be orchestrating the show, and that's his thing.

My thing is...
Do as you're told, and if you do it well, he'll be happy. When he is happy he gets romantic and sweet, and calm in this special, satisfied way. If you get punished, you disappointed. He is taking the time not only to explain it was wrong, but also to help you remember not to do it again, and he even leads you through the process of understanding, and lives it right to your side. It builds trust, because he's still there even after what you did, and loves you anyway. If he had thrown his hands up and walked away, never coming back, now that would be worrying.

It's just that when he punishes me for something, he already explained that he is just showing his compromise so we can do better next time. I know it is like, probably very irresponsible sometimes, but he is usually responsible for both of us.

Well, I warned you it would be weird.

BUT for me, to give him permission?
That would be sad.
For me.

(Now I feel this longing...!)

_____________________________

How many mornings do we have
Before this night ends?
I'm dying surrounded by white flowers
Which scatter in the sky...

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Thanks for the permission - 2/1/2011 2:24:54 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		Well, about this "my way or the highway" attitude... i find it so very narrow and claustrophobic and stiff... no matter if it is a dominant wanting it all their own way or the submissive with a list of hard limits as long as their arm.
To me being in a Ds relationship does not mean He gets it all His way at all... for one thing He is wrong or just not entirely right quite regularly... about as often as i am wrong or not quite right my self actually... needles to say i do not get it all my own way either... and still neither of us have any interest in the highway ... we are happy to be stuck with eachother and compromise... Now there is a challenge... He likes to feel He is in charge and i follow... and i like to feel He is in charge and i follow... so we play the game that way... both of us have totally different ways of looking at things and dealing with situations, we both need a different approach, neither of us is better or more right... we are actually quite equal just different.
So yes we both need eachothers permission about things for the relationship to thrive.

If I would have His permission to have a toyboy on the side... i might have a 'my way or the highway' attitude to my plaything aswell... as my primary relationship would be more important indeed, my toy could just be replaced at any time really so there would be no need to compromise.
As a submissive myself there is no way i would settle for the type of Domme i might be, but i bet there would be men i would be entertained by for a while.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 185
RE: Thanks for the permission - 2/1/2011 1:50:21 PM   
mummyman321


Posts: 2102
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Dusseldorf
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: mummyman321
I think it comes down to an issue of trust. If there is an agreement about hard limits and the Domme breaks that agreement/breaks that trust then yes I would walk away. Similar to cheating, how could I ever trust that Domme again? I could not.

Here is a specific example I am thinking of: One of my hard limits is needle play/breaking of the skin. While I am very open minded and love having my limits pushed, this would only bring back very bad and painful memories. A long story short, due to an industrial accident I spent 5 hours on an operating table for spinal cord surgery. I was awake for the whole surgery. Everytime they touched my spinal cord removing bone fragments and disk framents, I felt like someone electrocuted me. For whatever reason I remember every needle that pierced my body that day. And there was a lot. All I can say is you have no idea of what 5 hours of that type of pain can do to you. Am I afraid of needles? No. But there is no way I ever want to be reminded of that.

If my Domme broke that hard limit, I would have to walk away. My mind would not be able to grasp why she would want to remind me of that type of pain.

I completely agree with the highlighted above.  I can't say that I see it any differently just because it's different sides of the kneel.  I don't think you'll get much argument that expecting X in your dynamic that you envision is such a terrible thing when your expectation X is trust.  I wouldn't be doing that, either.



I cited this specific example because this a real example from my past (early on in my journey) that caused me to walk away from a Domme. What I should have mentioned in my first post and I did not is that the Domme involved did not know my medical past. She did however know my hard limits and those were clear.

I wanted to bring this up because when you first enter into a relationship, you do not necessarily spill your guts to your partner on all the things that have happened to you in the past. This will come with time but not all upfront at once. In this particular case, a previous medical experience was driving my hard limit which the Domme did not know about. We were both young and eneregetic and probably could have done a better job of communication. .

The key point I want to drive home is that I think it is important not only to repect hard limits but also you may want to understand what is driving those limits. I have run into Domme's who like to "tease" a sub about their hard limit in for mental torment play. While this can make for a great "mind fuck" it may also have the revease effect of chasing the sub away.

_____________________________

Life - Its not about where you are but about the journey to get there - I prefer to choose the road less traveled

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Thanks for the permission - 2/1/2011 4:43:38 PM   
darkenchantment


Posts: 39
Joined: 10/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

I see it this way, each and every one of us is different. My expectations of submission will differ to others expectations. I for example very much expect maisy-jayne to be able to make a decision about something. I demand she can show me her ability to make choices but at the same time never to question mine/ours.
There are some dominants and submissives on here that do things very lightheartedly and others that take things very seriously, then we have all the in betweens.
If I saw something written that said 'I give my Master permission to punish me' I would probably just think 'ah well so long as they are happy' because that is all that really matters.

I try not to look into other peoples relationships and be judgmental because its their relationship and not mine. My local munch have a couple (Dom and sub) that chase each other round and behave like children. At the same time she kneels at his feet and calls him Master and he giggles and tells anyone who is willing to stop and listen that he's been a Master for 20 years. To begin with they just really annoyed me but Steve reminded me that what they have is perfect at least for them and you can't start trouble shooting someone else's happy relationship.


I really couldn't agree more! I'm not aware of any legislation that says a D/s or M/s relationship need be conducted in any way except that which actually suits those involved. We may not agree with the way others live their relationships, but if they are happy and harm no one, let them get on with it.

_____________________________

There is no way to peace and happiness
Peace and happiness is the way.

(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 187
RE: Thanks for the permission - 2/4/2011 8:29:43 PM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
If you're boasting about committing illegal acts - another indication of weakness on your part - then this merely means Clip has you over a barrel. 

It's not weakness.  It's honesty.  Any top that doesn't realize there are potential legal ramifications is a fool.  Do you think this is only an area of concern for male Dominants?  Ha!  The only place that I get a free pass is I don't actually get DNA evidence from a rape kit if someone has morning after remorse.

Being aware is one thing.  Boasting about it in a public forum is another.  Constant self-promotion is an inherent weakness.  You should understand why.  That you don't is telling.

quote:

The point of the thread wasn't about legal issues.  You were close with your comment that I don't like the word "permission" and we don't use it.  Maybe next time, you can stick to the original and discuss how things work in your dynamic.
Maybe next time you can remember that nobody's obligated to discuss anything in a way which meets with your approval.

_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 188
RE: Thanks for the permission - 2/5/2011 7:43:44 PM   
LadyRian


Posts: 486
Joined: 9/5/2010
Status: offline 		Conversely, a Domme is also very vulnerable to an unscrupulous submissive. People seem to forget that. It seems unlikely. But it happens. 

_____________________________

"Dodging bullets since 2010"

(in reply to Chulain)
Profile   Post #: 189
RE: Thanks for the permission - 2/6/2011 4:32:06 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
If you're boasting about committing illegal acts - another indication of weakness on your part - then this merely means Clip has you over a barrel. 

It's not weakness.  It's honesty.  Any top that doesn't realize there are potential legal ramifications is a fool.  Do you think this is only an area of concern for male Dominants?  Ha!  The only place that I get a free pass is I don't actually get DNA evidence from a rape kit if someone has morning after remorse.

Being aware is one thing.  Boasting about it in a public forum is another.  Constant self-promotion is an inherent weakness.  You should understand why.  That you don't is telling.

quote:

The point of the thread wasn't about legal issues.  You were close with your comment that I don't like the word "permission" and we don't use it.  Maybe next time, you can stick to the original and discuss how things work in your dynamic.
Maybe next time you can remember that nobody's obligated to discuss anything in a way which meets with your approval.



AKA." I have no personal dynamic to discuss. I am jealous of those that do. My only dynamic is to make snarky remarks aimed at people that actually DO have a dynamic to discuss."

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Awareness)
Profile   Post #: 190
RE: Thanks for the permission - 2/6/2011 9:14:52 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
There seems to be to many "I"s in somes relationship!... Might be better if people used "We" alittle more.
Yeah, this is where Carol and I are on it also. I asked her whether she gives me permission or not. She furrowed her brow for a moment and said, "Kind of but not really".

Let me use an example that, at least on the surface is clear cut. Out of everything in our marriage, it is probably Carol's alcohol consumption that I control most assertively. Every single time before Carol has any alcohol, she asks and I say "yes" or "no".

Viewpoint #1: She is asking for permission and I am granting it (or not).
Viewpoint #2: She is seeking guidance on what the right answer is and I'm giving her my opinion.

We go with option 2. Option 2 is, to me at least, the more teamwork oriented approach. When I say either "yes" or "no", it becomes our answer to the question of whether or not alcohol is a good thing for us at the moment -- no permission involved.

Either viewpoint could be correct... we just choose the one where we are operating as a unit. That's why both Carol and I had to squint and came up with "sort of" as an answer to the permission question.


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 191
RE: Thanks for the permission - 2/6/2011 1:54:03 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Am I the only Dominant on these boards that wonders where all of this allowance and permission is coming from on the submissive side of the kneel?


Nope. You are not alone. We (The lilone and I) have actually had more than a few discussions re the phenomena you are discussing. We found it about as puzzling as you do.
Our house (re my house) has simple rules. I command, she obeys, It's about that simple. She doesn't give me permission for anything. Grins. Frankly, I'd like to see her try.


_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 192
RE: Thanks for the permission - 2/8/2011 6:27:08 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

So, let's talk about dynamics where the submissive is giving permission to the Dominant.  Thoughts?


In our relationship, Daddy is the Boss. I don't understand all this business of the submissives giving permission. I guess it could be argued that the submissive has the ultimate decision of staying or leaving, but if I want to stay IN the relationship with Daddy, HE will remain the Boss and make the decisions. He will ask for and/or consider my input, but HE has the ultimate authority if I intend to stay IN the relationship with Him. And I do.

~sweetsub~

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 193
RE: Thanks for the permission - 2/12/2011 8:43:58 PM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
AKA." I have no personal dynamic to discuss. I am jealous of those that do. My only dynamic is to make snarky remarks aimed at people that actually DO have a dynamic to discuss."
  *laugh*  Alternatively, I could just be too perceptive to buy into the stories people like to tell about themselves.  And find myself amused by the tendency of certain people to unwittingly undermine their chosen narrative.

Nice try.


_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 194
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