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RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/1/2011 4:44:20 PM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: petmonkey

i was trying to express that there are more ways than simply not doing it at all or relying on outside help to reduce that risk. Being informed, sensible and trained for a bit of self-defense is another way of going about it.

Oh, for sure. What I'm not sure about is whether or not we have a 'right' to safety in any meaningful sense, is all - I regularly walk down dark streets on my own, I'm not saying people should never leave their front doors without company.

It's just that if, when I walk down said dark streets on my own, anything were to happen, you'd better believe I'd be taking responsibility for that. Hlen saying 'don't blame the victim' is like saying 'the victim is allowed to deny her own responsibility for her safety because she has a right to walk home', and I struggle to accept that.

quote:

Phooey, i'm suppose to go to a bellydance show, but i promise to check the thread when i get home, VC. i'm sorry to post and run. *grumbles*

Heh. Don't worry about it at all - I regularly post and fall asleep (peril of posting out of insomnia). I hope you enjoy your show/have enjoyed your show.

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Post #: 21

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/1/2011 4:52:21 PM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
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My video card is inferior so I'm not going to watch the youtube - what was the question?

I carry pepper spray, available on Amazon. I feel safer at ATMs at night now.

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Post #: 22

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/1/2011 6:42:59 PM

hausboy

Posts: 2360
Joined: 9/5/2010
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I know this thread was for ladies. so I'm really really sorry to post but I'm doing it anyway.

When I was female, I got physically assaulted--more than once--sometimes at night, sometimes in broad daylight. It's terrible, and it happens, and I'm so sorry it happened to you. You made it out alive and unscathed--chalk it up to a warning shot. There's nothing wrong with asking someone to walk you to your car, call you a cab, or say "hey it's getting late--I don't want to take the bus after 9pm so I'm going to go now...."

My pride said "fuck the world! I'll walk anywhere I want, and look any way I please...." After a few good scares, my common sense then said; "and I'll be a little nicer to myself, and treat myself to a nice cab ride home so that I don't have to deal with the asshole frat boys and skinheads at 2 a.m.!" It is not your fault that the world is filled with men who can't behave like humans. So knowing that these lowlifes are out there, I decided to not tempt fate too many times.

I used to say that I didn't wear shoes I couldn't outrun an attacker in.... but then I watched a friend use her high-heel shoe to crack open a drunk clod's head....so to each her own!

Here's the other part I want to share with you-- as I dyke, I could get away with being a loud, obnoxious, aggressive butch--so if someone pissed me off, I could tell them off and flip them off. Now as a man, if I act like that, a guy or gal wouldn't think twice about knocking my block off! I had to realize (quickly) that the way I was used to behaving wasn't going to work for me now, and I had to realize that some things just translate differently. So for you, in your former life before transition, you may have been able to walk around at night or go to places that weren't the greatest--and it didn't create a problem. But now as you are who you truly are--there may be certain things that you'll need to adjust.

You don't have to....and shouldn't accept sexism, misogyny and bad behavior by men....but know that some things you may have thought were "givens" don't apply anymore.

Good luck, sister! (I don't see you as a tranny...I see you as a woman!)

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 23

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/1/2011 7:10:59 PM

hausboy

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Quick edit/clarification--as someone pointed out to me-- I used the term "skinhead"...and that's not really fair--because there are many skinhead groups (the majority actually) who are not racist, not homophobic and are not violent. (I have photos of my punk days to prove I was among their ranks)

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Post #: 24

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/1/2011 7:20:48 PM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
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For one, at 2am you are NOT obligated to be polite to ANYONE (by saying no thank you, or any reply at all, especially to people following you in a van).

Secondly, 2am, walking alone in the mean streets is NO time to go shopping if you are already creeped out, BEELINE/Crowfly it home by the fastest, safest route possible.

Thirdly, at 2am men chase/hit on chicks of any tail that looks like prey. Being a tranny doesn't change that fact. Being a tranny does matter if he were the type that has a distaste for em and that in itself might be more dangerous than if you were a chick. DON'T take chances ever or put yourself in unnecessary danger. TAKE A CAB.

Forth, if you were at your doorstep and didn't want him to think it was YOUR house...knock on the door LOUD first, Call out two men's names like "MIKE, BILL, are you home????". Likely he will see/hear this and drive away thinking 1) there are men there and 2) do not return because there are MEN there.

If worse came to worse (on the streets at 2am) when you are alone I gotta trick for ya. Make HIM think you are even crazier than he is. If he approaches or you are extremely threatened then tell him in a panic..."OMG, help me, I just killed my bf and I need to wash up somewhere! Where can I wash all this blood off of me???"

or "My husband has a gun and he is following right behind me , he thinks I'm cheating with somebody!!"

He will disappear faster than Liberace at an animal rights protest.

< Message edited by came4U -- 2/1/2011 7:22:39 PM >

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Post #: 25

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/1/2011 11:58:29 PM

rosanegra

Posts: 277
Joined: 1/1/2006
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I would like to point out that one of the things you did was very clever, even if you didn't notice it... you may have led him to your house, but you also told him you were married. He doesn't know if that is true, or not... but the fact that it might be true is probably enough to keep him from trying to press his luck. Even if he were predatory enough to try to attack you at home, it is a lot less likely if he thinks there is a good chance that someone else lives with you.

Yes, at 2 AM, men can be complete creeps! Walking home alone... it puts a target on you. Furthermore, you are probably lucky that you're difficult to distinguish from a genetic female. Being noticeably transgendered could put an even larger target on you. Be glad your night didn't end with a trip to the ER, or worse.

Many other people have made numerous great suggestions. I hope you will listen to their advice because you don't want to be a victim. The statistics on sexual assault on women are pretty nasty, and an attractive female walking home alone at 2 AM is definitely at higher risk than average.

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Post #: 26

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/2/2011 1:34:14 AM

hlen5

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Joined: 3/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

........It's just that if, when I walk down said dark streets on my own, anything were to happen, you'd better believe I'd be taking responsibility for that. Hlen saying 'don't blame the victim' is like saying 'the victim is allowed to deny her own responsibility for her safety because she has a right to walk home', and I struggle to accept that.

quote:

I hesitated to post what I did, I was afraid it might get misunderstood. Violet is the only person responsible for Violet's safety and I never suggested otherwise.

What made me post is "just don't get in that situation again". That sounded too close to "well what did you expect walking out so late at night (wearing those kind of clothes, etc. etc.)?" I struggled to accept that (and Celeste, I didn't say you said that, either).

As others have said it's our RIGHT to walk where we wish and when we wish. That it's our right doesn't necessarily make it a great idea.

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Post #: 27

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/2/2011 2:08:37 AM

tweakabelle

Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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This works for me Violet (fingers crossed!):

If I'm out late, I always ensure I have my cab fare home with me. If I don't have it, I don't stay out late.

And I get out of the cab a few doors away from my house too. I don't really want the cab driver to know where I live.

I'm lucky that I live in a very safe city but even then I prefer not to take any unnecessary chances.

You might like to think about keeping whistle in your bag too. Noise can be your best friend if you find yourself in a bad situation.

You look stunning to me Violet and thanks for joining the winning side!

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Post #: 28

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/2/2011 3:03:22 AM

petmonkey

Posts: 1053
Joined: 7/7/2009
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Hello again,
i had a great time! Didn't once think about this thread as i watched several enormously talented Bellydancers in small, spangly outfits blow the roof off a dancehall. Not once, i tell you.

Pardon if this post rambles. Scratch that, pardon that this post will ramble.

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
What I'm not sure about is whether or not we have a 'right' to safety in any meaningful sense

Oh no, VC, you are not taking me down a dark alley, newp, nohow. You'll have to start another thread if you want to philosophize on the definition of the word "right", the meaning of rights and if anyone "actually" has them. i will say i believe women have as much right to safety as men, if you like; and leave it there.

By the by, i just went two blocks to the grocery--i removed my jewelry, put my hair under a watchcap and changed into dark pants and big boots to do it. (i do that too.)

[/derailment end]

quote:

saying 'don't blame the victim' is like saying 'the victim is allowed to deny her own responsibility for her safety because she has a right to walk home'

i disagree that is the only way to read it. i actually feel that hausboy (sorry if you dislike me using your words, hausboy, scold or correct me here if you see fit) captures the phrase "Don't blame the victim" for me in a sentence in his post above, "It is not your fault that the world is filled with men who can't behave like humans."

This is not the fault of nor the responsibility of VioletGray. Her responsibility lies in what she does with that bit of knowledge. She came here to ask what are some of the ways she can be responsible. (Actually, her question was more: WTFJH?) She got some answers, some of which could be misconstrued as blaming in tone, i suppose--i glossed over that and the comments about her (obviously gorgeous) looks. Perhaps i'll go review when i'm done typing this mess.

All of the options presented reduce risk to a greater or lesser extent, but don't eliminate it completely. To think otherwise would most certainly be naive. There's a lot of "what if's" in the possible scenarios, it could hurt my soft little head thinking about them, but i try my best and it's worked pretty well thus far, and only thus far, i'm not kidding myself--i only need be terribly unlucky, choose wrong, once--that idea could keep me at home all the time for sure, if i wasn't such a fool and stubborn.

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
when I walk down said dark streets on my own, anything were to happen, you'd better believe I'd be taking responsibility for that.

Your post seems to say that you are taking responsibility for an attackers behavior as well, though. Are you? If you are the victim of someone else's aggressive compulsion, VC, is the fault yours alone? i ask point blank because i don't really know you that well, it's not intended to be a leading question, go anywhere particular . . .

P.S. Hausboy,

Your words are welcomed everywhere, as far as i'm concerned. i know it means little, in the great scheme of things, but i'm sorry you experienced assault. Thank you for sharing any parts of your life story with us, here and through-out the boards.
--mo

Squeak, my computer hasn't crashed yet! Score!

edit : quote boxes, argh.

< Message edited by petmonkey -- 2/2/2011 3:08:16 AM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/2/2011 3:15:51 AM

WyldHrt

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Joined: 6/5/2008
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quote:

Secondly, 2am, walking alone in the mean streets is NO time to go shopping if you are already creeped out, BEELINE/Crowfly it home by the fastest, safest route possible.

Got to disagree with you there. If the store is close, it is a better choice than leading the guy to your home. A public space and people, and you can call a cab or a friend. If you are really creeped, you can have the cab take you to the local cop shop, a move that will lose pretty much any guy who isn't an actual stalker.

< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 2/2/2011 3:18:26 AM >

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Post #: 30

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/2/2011 3:51:08 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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Just for clarification, I still haven't remembered the last time that I was out at 2:00 AM and didn't get hit on.

OP, I do hope that you are seriously listening to the comments about footwear, It sucks, but the truth is, you should be looking at the shoes that you're walking home in and ask yourself, "can I get out of dodge in these?" No, it's not the way that we should have to think, but if push came to shove, I'd rather be safe and unharmed than right.

Yes, best solution is to take a cab at that hour. If you're not willing or don't have the resources to spend the money, you do the next best thing. Make yourself completely aware of your surroundings and take any preventative measures that ensure your safety. Feel silly wearing running shoes home? Hey, I'd rather do that than have to go through the process of reporting an attack.

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Post #: 31

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/2/2011 4:07:51 AM

SourandSweet

Posts: 66
Joined: 1/22/2011
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I'm no longer allowed to go out so late at night without using a cab, but a few things I do/ did previously are:

Walk tall - look confident. Even if you feel nervous keep your head up. Some low-life looking to attack a woman will be less likely to do so with one who looks like she can take on the world.

If you smoke hold a lit cig. Useful weapon if needed, and knowing that helps you feel/ look more confident.

Keep your keys in your hand, each one between your fingers sticking out. Again, even if you don't get the chance to use them, you may do.

If you think you're being followed start talking into your mobile. Say things like - Hi Bob - I'm almost there, oh you're walking down to meet me - that's lovely, I love you, etc etc - keep that false convo going as long as necessary. They may not believe you - but they're unlikely to take the risk.

Never, ever use you Ipod after dark. You can't hear anyone coming up behind you.

Cross the road. If they also cross then knock loudly on the nearest door (if there's a house with the lights still on that's even better). I'd be happy for a strange woman who was afraid to wake me up anytime and be more than happy to call the police or a cab for her, and would imagine most people would. Don't go into the house though, just stay on the doorstep!

IF the worst comes to the worst and you are in imminent danger of being attacked don't shout 'Help' or 'Rape'. Shout 'Fire'. May sound silly, but people won't get involved if they think they'll get hurt, but they will want to know if there's a fire in their neighbourhood. Whatever you shout the attacker will most likely run off anyway.

Carry an attack alarm, and don't be afraid to use it.

Wear flat shoes. Always wear flat shoes going home. Makes you look less vulnerable - and that's so important.

If you get a cab home make sure it's licensed, take a note of the number, never get in the front seat (something I used to do but am no longer allowed to - I felt it rude to go in the back, but apparently it can give the wrong impression!), imply you have a partner at home. Ask the driver to wait until you get inside your door.

I attend Reclaim the Night marches and fully believe that women should be able to go where they want, when they want, and dressed how they want. Unfortunately until the more predatory type of men agee with that it's best to take all the precautions you can while also exercising your rights!

While true stranger rapes (i.e. someone you've had no previous communication with) are the rarest type they do happen.

As a slight side issue I've raised my sons to do things like cross the road if they're behind a woman/ elderly person walking alone, and to keep their eyes open to others being in danger. I think men have a responsibilty to help women feel safe.

Sorry if I went on a bit!

:-)

(in reply to WyldHrt)

Post #: 32

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/2/2011 5:18:32 PM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: petmonkey

Oh no, VC, you are not taking me down a dark alley, newp, nohow.

Heh. Fair enough.

quote:

i disagree that is the only way to read it. i actually feel that hausboy (sorry if you dislike me using your words, hausboy, scold or correct me here if you see fit) captures the phrase "Don't blame the victim" for me in a sentence in his post above, "It is not your fault that the world is filled with men who can't behave like humans."

That seems a little disingenuous. No it's not our fault that the world is full of men who can't behave like humans, but it's our fault if we don't take steps to avoid them. That's analogous to saying 'it's not my fault there is flooding', when you haven't sandbagged your house and it gets flooded. The initial situation might not be your fault, but it's still up to you to deal with said situation as best you can.

quote:

Your post seems to say that you are taking responsibility for an attackers behavior as well, though. Are you? If you are the victim of someone else's aggressive compulsion, VC, is the fault yours alone? i ask point blank because i don't really know you that well, it's not intended to be a leading question, go anywhere particular . . .

Whether it's my fault 'alone' or my fault *and* the fault of an aggressor is irrelevant - apportioning responsibility doesn't work like that, because the fact is that if I'd behaved differently this theoretical attack wouldn't have happened. That's what it comes down to.

quote:

P.S. Hausboy,
Your words are welcomed everywhere, as far as i'm concerned.

I also just want to echo this.

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Post #: 33

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/2/2011 5:22:18 PM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

That sounded too close to "well what did you expect walking out so late at night (wearing those kind of clothes, etc. etc.)?"

Well that's kind of what the question was - 'should I expect this?'.

And the answer, quite frankly, is 'yes'. If you walk around in a sweater dress and leggings in the early hours of the morning then it is to be expected that men will hit on you. Are you really disagreeing with that?

She didn't know what to expect. Now she does. It's up to her whether or not she considers the walk worth the inconvenience.

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Post #: 34

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/2/2011 8:17:02 PM

lazarus1983

Posts: 828
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

I can't urge you enough to read 2 books. The titles are The Gift of Fear (Gavin DeBecker, author) and Her Wits About Her (can't remember the author's name and unfortunately it might be out of print).

Don't worry about sparing their feelings. If someone refuses your first no, it's entirely appropriate to get loud and look for help. As others have said, don't let them know where you live.

I'm sorry you got rattled. You got home safe and sound (minus your fries!!).

ETA:I think I mentioned it when you posted the link on CM, but I love your Modest Diet Proposal clip on Youtube!!

I can't speak for the second book, but I CAN recommend a million times over "The Gift of Fear". When I teach Defensive Tactics I always bring up this book and encourage the officers to read it.

In any situation, the most important thing for you to do is to act. Not react, but act. Action always beats reaction, and if you keep the other person reacting to what you're doing, you're going to win.

Quick tip, on either side of the neck, located halfway along the sternocleidomastoid muscle is the brachial plexus origin nerve motor point. Strike this and it's the equivalent of hitting the reset button on a computer. I've had women half my size almost knock me out with it.

When you've got some guy coming at you, what is he expecting you to do? Freeze up, curl into a ball, scream? Probably. Is he expecting you to ACT, and strike him? Nope.

And to the poster who's friend had their phone snatched away? Well, next time use that phone to strike the person. Don't let them approach and take it away.

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Post #: 35

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/2/2011 8:39:26 PM

lazarus1983

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I'm sorry to double post, but the instructor in me demands it.

This has been touched on and debated somewhat in this thread already, so I'll make my opinions brief. Do you have a right to walk anywhere in this country unharmed? I guess in some abstract way, you do. But if you accept that you have this RIGHT, then what is your responsibility to yourself to protect this RIGHT?

Now, if you're in a situation where you're getting assaulted, maybe reminding your assailant that they're violating your rights will be enough to stop them. Sure would be nice if that worked, wouldn't it? But I doubt it does.

So, what is your responsibility if you choose to put yourself in a high risk area? Arming yourself, protecting yourself. If you live in a free society, then you alone are responsible for you own actions. That includes taking on the resonsibility of protecting and safeguarding your rights.

I agree with author Robert Heinlein, it is better to deal with the world AS IT IS, than how we'd like it to be.

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Post #: 36

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/3/2011 1:01:19 AM

twistedwillow

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violetgray, hugs it can be very scary in situations like that.

I can't really add anymore than what has already been said... great information in the above posts.
The sad reality is although we shouldn't have to know how to defend ourselves, and keep ourselves safe, reality demands it.
And while men need to know how to keep themselves safe as well, being a female presents a whole new set of safety issues to take into account.
hausboy hugs to you as well.

and as an aside this from sourandsweet

quote:

"As a slight side issue I've raised my sons to do things like cross the road if they're behind a woman/ elderly person walking alone, and to keep their eyes open to others being in danger. I think men have a responsibilty to help women feel safe"

is a great idea. My son is 15 and approx 6'2 and very big and 'scary' looking, and to a female or older person who doesn't know him, he can certainly look very intimidating.
So I think this is a great idea.

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Post #: 37

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/3/2011 1:40:58 AM

SexyBossyBBW

Posts: 1693
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Looking at you, I would not suspect you are a trans.

What happened is that at 2:00 AM any guy who is out on the street is drunk or high. And horny. They see a pretty woman walking, they assume she is horny also. This is why there are "Take Back the Night" walks, This is why women don't usually go walking by themselves at that hour. What you did wrong was to not take out your cell phone and punch 911 in obviously, and respond to this guy by yelling "Go away, I'm calling the cops".

And if you have a car, drive next time. Rates of sexual assault on women is 1 in 4. You almost became a statistic.

I agree with most of this, except telling him, I'm calling the cops.   I might call the cops, but I wouldn't announce it to a drunk, potentially angry/crazy stalker, since he might be done killing me by the time the cops arrive.

I would walk at 2am, but never alone, no matter how wonderful the neighborhood, unless there were an emergency, or family event that required my presence, and my car were not working.   If I did walk at 2am, I would first, quickly dial/hang up my local police precinct, to save it as last call, if I needed to redial.

The other thing I have done, when I felt someone had stalker potential, but would be satisfied with a number, is give him 10 numbers.
Violet, what happened with you, isn't that rare to me.    I'm not upset about someone asking if I want company, if they accept my answer of no.    The van trailing you, was scary, and what my replies above were geared toward.   M

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 38

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/3/2011 2:04:04 AM

hlen5

Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

That sounded too close to "well what did you expect walking out so late at night (wearing those kind of clothes, etc. etc.)?"

........ then it is to be expected that men will hit on you. Are you really disagreeing with that?

Where have I said I disagreed with that?

The responsibility for an assault is the assailant's.

That point I was objecting to was implying that she had it coming because she chose to walk ("Oh, you got raped? Too bad, you shouldn't have walked home.")

Would it be wiser to call a cab, wear shoes you can run in, call a friend to pick you up? Of course, and I never said otherwise.

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 2/3/2011 2:29:06 AM >

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Post #: 39

RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny.. - 2/3/2011 6:30:33 AM

OttersSwim

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I can say that by being trans, there can definitely be an additional layer of fear/apprehension around incidents like what Violet experienced. There is pretty much always that nagging worry (especially if you only "sort of pass") that in addition to being initially perceived as female and eliciting the "Hey baby..." response, that upon coming closer, the guy will read you as being trans - and that suddenly can escalate the situation into a fear/anger response from the guy. Now, Violet is quite passable, but I would be willing to be money that some of that thought process was going through her mind and from personal experience I have to say that additional layer of fear just simply sucks...it is soul blighting because it is our fear attacking us at the very core of our being...

As for the "blame the victim" arguments flying around, I say this.

Should we live in a world where a woman can walk around at any time day or night without fear of attack on her person? Yes
Do we live in a world where a woman can walk around at any time day or night without fear of attack on her person? No
Is there ever justification for attacking a woman in such a manner? No

But that does not change the reality that in certain parts of the world, it is not wise for a woman (or anyone male or female) to walk around alone at night. And so, to my mind, there enters a certain level of personal responsibility for our own well being and so as a prudent person who values the intactness of my exterior, I will act in a way that puts me in the least amount of danger possible.

It's wrong, it isn't fair, it should be different - but it isn't - and so I will take responsibility and do my best to protect myself.

I am sorry this happened to you Violet, and I am glad you are safe!

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to VioletGray)

Post #: 40

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All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: Question for the ladies, from a scared tranny..

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