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RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/2/2011 9:13:02 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

our military's size


http://fmiyar.com/today/today1/top-42-world-military-strength-ranking-by-global-fire/

Rank 1-10 Observations: The United States (GFP formula value of 0.184) remains the undisputed leader of our list thanks to their staying “active” in global hotspots, showcasing the world’s largest navy and continuing to poor in gobs of money into defense. Our formula sees China edge out Russia but only by the slimmest of margins (0.238 versus 0.241 respectively) with an edge in available manpower and financial capital. France (0.636) and Germany (0.672) are relative equals for the most part but the GFP formula gives a slight edge to France thanks to an aircraft carrier and capable navy as well as a bump in defense spending. Brazil (0.756) is the most powerful South American country on the list thanks to available manpower and a capable navy. Japan (0.920) is a “sleeper” power that sneaks into the top ten with a good navy, strong logistical infrastructure and capital. Rank 11-20 Observations: Our formula provides for a good disparity between North and South Korea, placing South well-ahead of the North thanks to better infrastructure and capital. Mexico’s placement this high on the list is interesting to note – it scored a good balance across the board in all major categories. Israel finally gets a proper placement on this year’s list – just out of the top ten – sporting a strong land army with equally strong training, modern equipment and recent combat experience. Rank 21-30 Observations: No surprises here. A basic collection of modern armies of generally equal strengths.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/2/2011 9:14:52 PM >

(in reply to Knightwalker)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/2/2011 9:27:33 PM   
Knightwalker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Oh Jesus Christ.

You said the majority--that's 50% plus. It's not. It's 20%. Hardly a small difference.

Deal with it. Bullshit indeed.


Funny, I don't recall an exact percentage being required for a majority. I guess some of our past elections really haven't been won by majority then.

Out of the top 4 expenses on which our government spends tax dollars, defense is third. However, despite that ranking, there are still 20 or so WELL behind what we spend on defense.

I'm sure any one of those 20 areas would do well with a fraction of our defense dollars added to their pile.

And of course, as I already tried to point out about your nitpicking, you've missed the entire point of my post -- and that is with amount of our taxes spent on defense (whether it's 10% or 90%) we are, more or less "forced" to buy those toys our military uses. We are taxed and have no choice, the taxes go (in however big or small a part) to the defense budget. So, yes, we are forced to buy those machines and weapons.

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 6:37:21 AM   
Musicmystery


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ma-jor-i-ty
   /məˈdʒɔrɪti, -ˈdʒɒr-/ Show Spelled[muh-jawr-i-tee, -jor-]
–noun, plural -ties.
1. the greater part or number; the number larger than half the total ( opposed to minority): the majority of the population.
2. a number of voters or votes, jurors, or others in agreement, constituting more than half of the total number.
3. the amount by which the greater number, as of votes, surpasses the remainder (distinguished from plurality).
4. the party or faction with the majority vote: The Democratic party is the majority.
5. the state or time of being of full legal age: to attain one's majority.
6. the military rank or office of a major.
—Idiom
7. join the (great) majority, to die.

So no, not nitpicking--completely different.

This began, remember, with you nitpicking, snarky about "a quick Google search," and being very wrong--for want of your own quick Google search.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/3/2011 6:47:59 AM >

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RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 7:50:31 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I am still reading this shit. ANY insurance...repeat ANY insurance mandated by ANY state or the fed is a mandate to fucking buy insurance...period. If ANY of it is constitutional it is ALL constitutional.



Now that I have a few extra mintues, let me dumb it down to your level.

Constitution:

Dear Federal Government, you have purview over and can regulate/legislate in areas A, B, C. If you step into anything that is not specifically A,B,C it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.


Dear Anyone other than the Federal Government: The Feds can tell you what to do regarding A, B, C. I don't care what you do in any other area that I am silent on.



So in the context of your nonsensical statement, mandatory health care insurance is NOT in the Constitution. A FEDERAL law to that effect is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Citing the Commerce Clause (which regulates INTERSTATE COMMERCE) as making mandatory health insurance part of the Constitution is particularly asinine because it is the Federal government itself that says that health insurance CANNOT be sold interstate.

But STATE mandatory health insurance (or auto insurance) is NOT in the Constitution, and a State can do whatever it wants in those areas.

Got it?


Wilbur, MCCulloch V. Maryland - 1819, and your Ace Ventura impression of talking out of your ass appear to be unreconcilable, much as your laffer curve, and your advising the giants of business, and most other subjects which you are to a fault incorrect on, or simply prevaricating upon.  The enumerated vs implied powers was dealt with, and there are implied powers.

Chief Justice Marshall <opinion excerpt>

But there is no phrase in the instrument which, like the Articles of Confederation, excludes incidental or implied powers and which requires that everything granted shall be expressly and minutely described. Even the 10th Amendment, which was framed for the purpose of quieting the excessive jealousies which had been excited, omits the word "expressly," and declares only that the powers "not delegated to the United States, nor prohibited to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people," thus leaving the question whether the particular power which may become the subject of contest has been delegated to the one Government, or prohibited to the other, to depend on a fair construction of the whole instrument. The men who drew and adopted this amendment had experienced the embarrassments resulting from the insertion of this word in the Articles of Confederation, and probably omitted it to avoid those embarrassments.

A Constitution, to contain an accurate detail of all the subdivisions of which its great powers will admit, and of all the means by which they may be carried into execution, would partake of the prolixity of a legal code, and could scarcely be embraced by the human mind. It would probably never be understood by the public. Its nature, therefore, requires that only its great outlines should be marked, its important objects designated, and the minor ingredients which compose those objects be deduced from the nature of the objects themselves. That this idea was entertained by the framers of the American Constitution is not only to be inferred from the nature of the instrument, but from the language. Why else were some of the limitations found in the 9th section of the 1st article introduced? It is also in some degree warranted by their having omitted to use any restrictive term which might prevent its receiving a fair and just interpretation.

In considering this question, then, we must never forget that it is a Constitution we are expounding.

(this guy here.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Marshall


I would point out to you that this opinion has not been encroached upon in any way these -------lo-----------nearly 200 years.

You may have a hysterical view of our constitution, but not a constitutional one.  If you want to change that law and precedent, perhaps you should know some, or find somebody that actually knows some law, and go to the supreme court with it. 

I suggest you read up on the constitution, the law, and just about everything else other than extemporaneously speaking precisely 180 degrees away from truth.  You got that going for you. 

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 2/3/2011 8:45:46 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 9:12:57 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

I am still reading this shit. ANY insurance...repeat ANY insurance mandated by ANY state or the fed is a mandate to fucking buy insurance...period. If ANY of it is constitutional it is ALL constitutional.



Now that I have a few extra mintues, let me dumb it down to your level.

Constitution:

Dear Federal Government, you have purview over and can regulate/legislate in areas A, B, C. If you step into anything that is not specifically A,B,C it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.


Dear Anyone other than the Federal Government: The Feds can tell you what to do regarding A, B, C. I don't care what you do in any other area that I am silent on.



So in the context of your nonsensical statement, mandatory health care insurance is NOT in the Constitution. A FEDERAL law to that effect is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Citing the Commerce Clause (which regulates INTERSTATE COMMERCE) as making mandatory health insurance part of the Constitution is particularly asinine because it is the Federal government itself that says that health insurance CANNOT be sold interstate.

But STATE mandatory health insurance (or auto insurance) is NOT in the Constitution, and a State can do whatever it wants in those areas.

Got it?


Would you stop? you are too stupid to get the basic point wilbur. You keep saying the same thing and missing it.........

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RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 2:13:18 PM   
tazzygirl


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~FR

Senate vote to pass health care reform... 60 - 39.

Senate vote to refuse to appeal health care... 60 - 39.

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RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 2:19:03 PM   
Lucylastic


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strange that!

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RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 2:26:15 PM   
tazzygirl


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Want to imagine something else???

When the Senate passed the bill into law, the Dems had 59 seats, the Republicans 41.

Currently... the Dems have 53 Seats, the republicans 47.

You seeing what im seeing?



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RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 2:27:17 PM   
Lucylastic


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heh some people understanding reality, :)

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 2:29:33 PM   
tazzygirl


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And thats one of the reasons why I adore you!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 2:30:26 PM   
Lucylastic


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MWHUAH< the feeling is mutual my friend

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 3:31:02 PM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Knightwalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
When they deliver your Apache that youre forced to buy, let me know. Till then your argument is totally senseless.


You do realize the majority of our tax dollars goes to the defense budget, right?

We have no choice in paying taxes, the largest percentage of those taxes go to defense, the defense budget buys military hardware -- ergo we're "forced" to buy Apaches (along with a bunch of other cool toys).


When did that happen?   The DOD budget is 18.74% where as Social Security is 19.63%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fy2010_spending_by_category.jpg

This is a typical myth.  

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 3:36:33 PM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: sonictraveler

They force us to buy Apache helicopters, tanks, and guns already...I'd rather be forced to pay into a health care system that doesn't leave people in the dust instead.



Agreed.

Our military is larger than the rest of the world's combined.

Surely there's a few bucks to be spared without the world going to hell.

Start with the stuff Congress buys that the Pentagon doesn't even want.


Again   Not true.   North Korea has about 9.5 million troops whereas we have 1.5 million troops.   More propoganda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_troops

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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 3:47:22 PM   
Musicmystery


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Honestly, you think the number of boots is the measure of the strongest military?

Our air and sea capacity alone dwarf anyone else.

Here's a side by side comparison, US and N. Korea.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

our military's size


http://fmiyar.com/today/today1/top-42-world-military-strength-ranking-by-global-fire/

Rank 1-10 Observations: The United States (GFP formula value of 0.184) remains the undisputed leader of our list thanks to their staying “active” in global hotspots, showcasing the world’s largest navy and continuing to poor in gobs of money into defense. Our formula sees China edge out Russia but only by the slimmest of margins (0.238 versus 0.241 respectively) with an edge in available manpower and financial capital. France (0.636) and Germany (0.672) are relative equals for the most part but the GFP formula gives a slight edge to France thanks to an aircraft carrier and capable navy as well as a bump in defense spending. Brazil (0.756) is the most powerful South American country on the list thanks to available manpower and a capable navy. Japan (0.920) is a “sleeper” power that sneaks into the top ten with a good navy, strong logistical infrastructure and capital. Rank 11-20 Observations: Our formula provides for a good disparity between North and South Korea, placing South well-ahead of the North thanks to better infrastructure and capital. Mexico’s placement this high on the list is interesting to note – it scored a good balance across the board in all major categories. Israel finally gets a proper placement on this year’s list – just out of the top ten – sporting a strong land army with equally strong training, modern equipment and recent combat experience. Rank 21-30 Observations: No surprises here. A basic collection of modern armies of generally equal strengths.





< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/3/2011 3:52:15 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 3:58:07 PM   
KenDckey


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MM  didn't you say the worlds largest   did you mis-speak meaning the most powerful.   That being the case it is probablly russia with all their nukes (more than us)

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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 4:00:22 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Funny, I don't recall an exact percentage being required for a majority. I guess some of our past elections really haven't been won by majority then.


While we're at it....exactly--some of them weren't. Fifteen, in fact.

Presidents Elected Without a Majority

Fifteen candidates (three of them twice) have become president of the United States with a popular vote less than 50% of the total cast. It should be noted, however, that in elections before 1872, presidential electors were not chosen by popular vote in all states. Adams's election in 1824 was by the House of Representatives, which chose him over Jackson, who had a plurality of both electoral and popular votes, but not a majority in the electoral college.

Besides Jackson in 1824, only three other candidates receiving the largest popular vote have failed to gain a majority in the electoral college—Samuel J. Tilden (D) in 1876, Grover Cleveland (D) in 1888, and Al Gore (D) in 2000.

The “minority” presidents are listed below.

Year - President - Popular percent
1824 John Q. Adams - 29.8%
1844 James K. Polk (D) - 49.3
1848 Zachary Taylor (W) - 47.3
1856 James Buchanan (D) - 45.3
1860 Abraham Lincoln (R) - 39.9
1876 Rutherford B. Hayes (R) - 47.9
1880 James A. Garfield (R) - 48.3
1884 Grover Cleveland (D) - 48.8
1888 Benjamin Harrison (R) - 47.8
1892 Grover Cleveland (D) - 46.0%
1912 Woodrow Wilson (D) - 41.8
1916 Woodrow Wilson (D) - 49.3
1948 Harry S. Truman (D) - 49.5
1960 John F. Kennedy (D) - 49.7
1968 Richard M. Nixon (R) - 43.4
1992 William J. Clinton (D) - 43.0
1996 William J. Clinton (D) - 49.0
2000 George W. Bush (R) - 47.8
2004 George W. Bush (R) - 50.7

In John Quincy Adams' case, he didn't even have a majority of electoral votes--just 31.8%.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781456.html

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RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 4:12:20 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Knightwalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
When they deliver your Apache that youre forced to buy, let me know. Till then your argument is totally senseless.


You do realize the majority of our tax dollars goes to the defense budget, right?

We have no choice in paying taxes, the largest percentage of those taxes go to defense, the defense budget buys military hardware -- ergo we're "forced" to buy Apaches (along with a bunch of other cool toys).


You do realize that you are protected by the DoD right? You do realize that EVERYONE shares in that protection, and there is no way to separate who is and isn't protected and therefore everyone has an obligation to pay for it, right? You do realize that nobody is protected by your purchase of health insurance other than you, right?

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 2/3/2011 4:14:40 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 6:31:52 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

MM  didn't you say the worlds largest   did you mis-speak meaning the most powerful.   That being the case it is probablly russia with all their nukes (more than us)

How many 10s of thousands do either of us need?

Again, our air force and navy alone put us way over the top. Or if it doesn't, then let's stop spending all that money on it, since it's not working.

But you guys have it your way. We're a pathetic little backwater with a couple of muskets. It's a miracle we survive each day.

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 6:44:56 PM   
Knightwalker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
So no, not nitpicking--completely different.

This began, remember, with you nitpicking, snarky about "a quick Google search," and being very wrong--for want of your own quick Google search.


Actually, I wasn't wrong. When something is in the top 3 expenditures, I still consider it to be part of the majority. See, of the top 4 biggest areas our government spends money on, defense is 3rd. And it's 3rd with several hundred billion dollars, I'd still consider that expense to be in the majority. It's not in the top spot, but it's high enough for me.

And again, Mr. Nitpick, it *is* nitpicking when you focus on one word in a post, instead of the overall point of the post. I'll re-state it again, since you're reading-impaired.

We pay taxes. This is not optional. More than 700 billion dollars of those non-optional taxes goes to defense. This is not the choice of the individual tax payer. The money for all the toys our military gets to play with comes from the defense budget. Thus, it can be determined, that the tax payer is therefore "forced" to buy whatever toys the military gets to play with. We don't have a choice.

Now, you can continue to quibble over individual words like "large" or "majority" or whatever. You know what? I really don't give a fuck. The first post was made using an iPad in a couple of minutes of downtime at work. So I don't give a fuck if you want to waste time (or detract from the overall point that you have no answer for) by quibbling over one fucking word. One-word-quibbling is the last resort of someone who has no counter-point. You can't argue with my point, so you decide to argue over one hastily chosen word.

Continue your quibble, dude. I'm quite content in knowing you have no intelligent rebuttal to my point (since you haven't even addressed it.) By the way, this is increasingly hilarious considering your own rabid defense of your "wrong" statement about how ours is the largest military in the world.....and it's not..by far. But continue being wrong about that and quibbling over one word about the defense expenditure. I understand you have trouble countering arguments, so I won't force you to keep trying. I'm done with you. You're dismissed.

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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 6:48:33 PM   
Knightwalker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knightwalker

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
When they deliver your Apache that youre forced to buy, let me know. Till then your argument is totally senseless.


You do realize the majority of our tax dollars goes to the defense budget, right?

We have no choice in paying taxes, the largest percentage of those taxes go to defense, the defense budget buys military hardware -- ergo we're "forced" to buy Apaches (along with a bunch of other cool toys).


You do realize that you are protected by the DoD right? You do realize that EVERYONE shares in that protection, and there is no way to separate who is and isn't protected and therefore everyone has an obligation to pay for it, right? You do realize that nobody is protected by your purchase of health insurance other than you, right?


Hey man, don't bring it here. I was in the military and happen to like those toys. I was just pointing out that we are actually forced to buy those toys. I'm glad we are, personally. I was just pointing out that while we don't have our own personal Apaches delivered to us, we are still forced to buy them.

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Profile   Post #: 120
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