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RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 10:18:54 PM   
chubbysubbyguy


Posts: 90
Joined: 1/30/2011
From: Chicago
Status: offline 		Alot of that money is spent on R&D for Weapons that will not be in production for field use for many years. Some of the money goes to fund special operations. Some of it is misappropriated or misused. I'm not saying we don't have strength, I think our record proves that we do. A lot of the issues I saw as a Marine don't stem from the government not giving enough to the DoD it is because the Marines don't have a separate budget from the Navy. We are the baby child in a family of 5 getting big brothers hand me downs (and that has nothing to do with actual age of the services) I say the Military could use one of two things..a private accounting firm to make better use of the funds, or more money.

I was just thinking as I was writing this, if people really want a single payer healthcare system then there are plenty of other places to trim the fat other than the DoD who is always the first people to get hit when more money is needed. Congress can cut the number of staffers each member has on the tax payers account. There can be a little less foreign aid given each year, places like that have plenty of money ripe for the picking.

I am all for public healthcare as long as I am not going to wind up broke having to pay for yet another poorly run, poorly planned, stuff their own pockets and their friends pocket government program.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 10:22:44 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

I'm not saying we don't have strength, I think our record proves that we do. A lot of the issues I saw as a Marine don't stem from the government not giving enough to the DoD

Thank you. That's the point.

quote:

I am all for public healthcare as long as I am not going to wind up broke having to pay for yet another poorly run, poorly planned, stuff their own pockets and their friends pocket government program.

Agreed on both counts.

(in reply to chubbysubbyguy)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 10:43:25 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

I am all for public healthcare as long as I am not going to wind up broke having to pay for yet another poorly run, poorly planned, stuff their own pockets and their friends pocket government program.


Instead of what we have now? A poorly run, deliberately poorly planned health care system that winds up making us all broke in the end stages of most diseases while stuffing the pockets of CEO's and their friends?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to chubbysubbyguy)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 10:54:47 PM   
chubbysubbyguy


Posts: 90
Joined: 1/30/2011
From: Chicago
Status: offline 		Right now though that system in the end is optional. I can choose whether I want to stuff their pockets or go to Wal-Mart and buy some bandaids and asprins and hope that I don't wind up getting something I can't treat myself.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 11:00:06 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		And if you do? There are people who have paid their premiums faithfully for years and never had a problem... until a major illness struck. Wally World's bandaids arent gonna help you then. And, more to the point, everytime someone accesses health care without insurance, those with insurance are paying for it.

Thats been the point all along. Either way, you, I, the man under the bridge... we all pay for it... and the Insurance companies are among those getting rich beyond belief.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to chubbysubbyguy)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 11:08:05 PM   
chubbysubbyguy


Posts: 90
Joined: 1/30/2011
From: Chicago
Status: offline 		Well to be perfectly honest if I am ever faced with an illness or injury I can't handle on my own, I have an option that won't burden the tax payer or the insurance company. I can go to the local VA hospital. I do understand that this is not an option for everyone, but everyday I am reminded why government run healthcare is worse when I try and stand before I wrap an ace bandage around my knee and take a half bottle of asprin. You get what you pay for, and theres a reason the quality doctors don't work for the government.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/3/2011 11:32:29 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I have an option that won't burden the tax payer or the insurance company.


The government pays for yours... im assuming under Tricare... which is part of the DOD budget.. which is paid for by you and me and everyone else. So, yes, its still a burden on the tax payer. Dont take that as me saying you arent entitled... My father is retired military. Anyone who serves is entitled, in my opinion.

Funny, those who arent complaining are those who have jobs that provide insurance ( until they lose their jobs and their insurance) those who are on Medicare/Medicaid, and those who are rich. A very small percentage of the population has self-paid insurance. And even those who are rich still are entitled to Medicare.

And everyone is willing to accept this?

The owner of my restaurant is Korean. He and I have spoken at length about the HCL and the changes it may mean for him. He is just as confused as I am because his country gives health care for the nominal fee of 20 dollars a week... and they have a plan for those who arent working.

And they did this all in 12 years, starting out with mandating insurance for companies with more than 500 employees.



< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 2/3/2011 11:39:22 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to chubbysubbyguy)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/4/2011 12:02:18 AM   
chubbysubbyguy


Posts: 90
Joined: 1/30/2011
From: Chicago
Status: offline 		I guess I should have said "further" since the VA is already something we have had established already long before the national health care debate. I still say the Public option would be fine, if it was ran by a private company. The government can't get road repair right I sure as hell don't want to trust them with my grandma's health.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/4/2011 6:27:05 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

The government can't get road repair right


Huh?

Of course they can--and do. Quite a bit.

Naturally, this costs money. Tax cuts don't fix roads.

(in reply to chubbysubbyguy)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/4/2011 6:59:46 AM   
RacerJim


Posts: 1583
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

psst...you misspelled Obama in your thread title.

psst...his last known legal surname is Soetoro.

pssst... you have no idea what you are talking about.

To shortcut your next claim, please present his legal name change or his adoption by Soetoro.

pssst...your ignorant elitism is showing.

Prima-facie evidence of his legal name change to (Barry) Soetoro per adoption by Soetoro has been readily available on the Internet for at least the previous two years - his registration form for the grade school he attended in Jakarta.

Now then, please reference prima-facie evidence in the public domain of his legal name change back to (Barack Hussein) Obama.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/4/2011 7:10:02 AM   
chubbysubbyguy


Posts: 90
Joined: 1/30/2011
From: Chicago
Status: offline 		Guess road repair wasn't a good example because although the feds pay for it, its administered by the state, and in Illinois the contract goes to the highest briber not the best person for the job. Bottom line is I still think the govt, state or local should not be trusted with the health of the people.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/4/2011 7:15:09 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

pssst...your ignorant elitism is showing.

Prima-facie evidence of his legal name change to (Barry) Soetoro per adoption by Soetoro has been readily available on the Internet for at least the previous two years - his registration form for the grade school he attended in Jakarta.



Link please? And if you're going to go with the "I won't do your homework for you" line that usually accompanies unverified claims, I did a google search for "obama legal name change barry soetoro" and found nothing - just a bunch of sites claiming it to be true, no actual paperwork demonstrating a legal name change.

FWIW in most countries it would be possible for him to register for school as "Barry Soetoro" even if his legal name were "Barack Obama" because so long as there is no intent to deceive, a person can use an assumed name rather than a birth name. For example, I'm able to do most things under my married name, even though I never legally changed it. I wouldn't be able to get a passport or anything with that name, but I would be able to register for school with my husband's surname...or, in theory, my adopted father's name. So long as I wasn't attempting to defraud the school system (if I had unpaid loans in my maiden name, for example).

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/4/2011 8:00:20 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chubbysubbyguy
I still think the govt, state or local should not be trusted with the health of the people.

And we already know we can't trust insurance companies or employers with this either.

Gosh. Now what?

(in reply to chubbysubbyguy)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/4/2011 8:09:06 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: chubbysubbyguy
I still think the govt, state or local should not be trusted with the health of the people.

And we already know we can't trust insurance companies or employers with this either.

Gosh. Now what?
I don't even trust doctors with my healthcare. I've been misdiagnosed more than once.

It's fucking hilarious that chubby says he won't trust government with his healthcare, but the first serious boo-boo he gets, where dies he say he'll go? THE VA. No hypocrisy there, eh?

Not that single payer is anywhere near govt healthcare anyway, but just try and educate righties.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/4/2011 8:20:06 AM   
chubbysubbyguy


Posts: 90
Joined: 1/30/2011
From: Chicago
Status: offline 		That's because it's the only option for me. See I don't like to mention this, but when the economy went south my employer that used to provide my health insurance had to let people go. I haven't had a job for two years so paying my quality doctor out of pocket isn't really an option, and since I do have VA privileges why should I burden an already overwhelmed free clinic or county hospital. If I'm going to the doctor (private or otherwise) I would need to have a bone sticking out somewhere, or need surgery. I'm not one of those folks who run to the ER because I have a cut or a little cold. Worst case scenario=worst option.

Edited to add- And I never said I would trust the VA, I just said that would be my option. You do what you have to when you have no other choice but pain/death

< Message edited by chubbysubbyguy -- 2/4/2011 8:22:05 AM >

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/4/2011 8:23:20 AM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chubbysubbyguy

That's because it's the only option for me. See I don't like to mention this, but when the economy went south my employer that used to provide my health insurance had to let people go. I haven't had a job for two years so paying my quality doctor out of pocket isn't really an option, and since I do have VA privileges why should I burden an already overwhelmed free clinic or county hospital. If I'm going to the doctor (private or otherwise) I would need to have a bone sticking out somewhere, or need surgery. I'm not one of those folks who run to the ER because I have a cut or a little cold. Worst case scenario=worst option.


/facepalm

I wonder why you would trust a private insurer (that drops coverage when you're not able to pay) with your health more than a government program (that won't drop coverage even if you're unemployed) - can you please explain how the guarantee of healthcare is less trustworthy than the option to pay for it?

quote:


Edited to add- And I never said I would trust the VA, I just said that would be my option. You do what you have to when you have no other choice but pain/death


Edited to add - you are aware that in countries with public insurance, the option to buy private insurance is still available? Government insurance is mostly used by people who "have no other choice but pain/death" and most people able to afford private insurance choose to get it?

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 2/4/2011 8:24:57 AM >

(in reply to chubbysubbyguy)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/4/2011 8:29:27 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		Maybe because he has this bizarre notion (which I find common on the right) that some suit who flies around in a corporate jet and makes his bonuses controlling costs by denying needed procedures to people who have faithfully paid their premiums for years, really has his best interests at heart. And the person who works for the government (possibly one's next door neighbor) is an incompetent functionary who couldn't make it in the "real" world.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/4/2011 8:30:30 AM   
chubbysubbyguy


Posts: 90
Joined: 1/30/2011
From: Chicago
Status: offline 		I did say earlier that I was ok with a public option if it was efficiently run. My issue with gov't healthcare is the quality of doctor a govt salary attracts. My experience with govt doctors all stems from a poorly done surgery that was done 6 months after it should have been and left me with a permanent disability and ruined my career. A privately run govt regulated option seems like the best of both worlds to me. A private company would still operate more efficiently trying to not go bankrupt and govt regulation would ensure that the unemployed and underemployed did not fall through the cracks. I never once said I wanted to deny anyone care or keep things the way they were, but it is my opinion that neither the government nor a private company can run a GOOD healthcare system on their own.

(in reply to Elisabella)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/4/2011 9:56:30 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

A privately run govt regulated option seems like the best of both worlds to me.


quote:

And I never said I would trust the VA, I just said that would be my option. You do what you have to when you have no other choice but pain/death


Tricare is that privately run, government regulated option.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to chubbysubbyguy)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: This just in re 0bama0Care - 2/22/2011 6:28:22 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		A federal judge on Tuesday upheld the health care reform law signed last year by President Barack Obama and found that Congress had the clear authority to regulate health insurance under the Commerce Clause of the Constitution.

U.S. District Judge Gladys Kessler's 64-page ruling (below) takes aim at the argument espoused by many conservatives which holds that the passive act of not purchasing health insurance does not constitute an activity that can be regulated under the Commerce Clause.

"It is pure semantics to argue that an individual who makes a choice to forgo health insurance is not 'acting,' especially given the serious economic and health-related consequences to every individual of that choice," Kessler writes. "Making a choice is an affirmative action, whether one decides to do something or not do something. They are two sides of the same coin. To pretend otherwise is to ignore reality."

Kessler, however, rejected the argument that Congress had the authority to enact the Affordable Care Act under the General Welfare Clause because Congress "did not intend [the law] to operate as a tax."
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/federal-judge-in-dc-upholds-health-care-reform-says-some-arguments-ignore-reality.php

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 160
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