RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ?

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RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 3:23:13 AM

TotallyDude

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quote:

Please don't presume to tell me what I am, and am not. The study is a weak one. The summation is a weak one. They're not, from a materiality point of view, substantially different.

One is a dubiously designed study. The other is a flamboyant and deliberate misrepresentation of already dubiously designed study. It's the difference between putting too much vermouth in a martini and deliberately dumping dishwater into a martini glass and calling it a martini. Both may taste regrettable but only one is a deliberate affront.

quote:

No, but it does have a bearing on how people might view your contributions to other threads. You exhibit strong narcissistic traits with an unhealthily bullying tone (at times), ergo it's a tad rich of you to have a pop at someone else for doing not even as much as you yourself do elsewhere. It’s called hypocrisy, and it’s not unreasonable of me to point that out.

Absolutely fair, my friend. But the fact that you point it out repeatedly doesn't change the fact that my assessment of the OP was spot on. It's even richer that you agreed with me substantively and had to jump through hoops to create a non-existent clash just to bring this point up. From a rhetorical standpoint, you're really better off just keeping that one in your pocket and playing it sometime when you think it might be the trump. Otherwise its efficacy is just going to dwindle and the (already limited) returns you get on it will diminish into nothing. By my own admission I can often be exuberant and bombastic and I promise you'll get a chance to use it again, at a more opportune time.

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Post #: 21

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 3:25:20 AM

RapierFugue

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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude

Absolutely fair, my friend. But the fact that you point it out repeatedly doesn't change the fact that my assessment of the OP was spot on. It's even richer that you agreed with me substantively and had to jump through hoops to create a non-existent clash just to bring this point up. From a rhetorical standpoint, you're really better off just keeping that one in your pocket and playing it sometime when you think it might be the trump. Otherwise its efficacy is just going to dwindle and the (already limited) returns you get on it will diminish into nothing. By my own admission I can often be exuberant and bombastic and I promise you'll get a chance to use it again, at a more opportune time.

Thank you for your input but I don't require debating advice from someone such as yourself.

I do appreciate you taking the time and trouble to "help" though, it's very sweet of you.

(in reply to TotallyDude)

Post #: 22

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 3:26:02 AM

TotallyDude

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Joined: 1/30/2011
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quote:

People shoplift for different reasons. I am highly dubious of any study that indicates the reason why a 16 year old does is remotely close to why an 80 year old does... outside of those who do so compulsively.

The study is definitely flawed. It's only that the summary of the study offered by the site linked by the OP is so much worse.

I actually would like to see the study though just to see exactly what it found. My gut impulse tells me that more younger people shoplift out of a sense of thrill (how many rich kids steal stuff they could easily buy or don't even want just to steal something) and that older people are more likely to steal out of necessity. But that's just a shot in the dark speculation on my part.

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Post #: 23

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 3:29:13 AM

Aneirin

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From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Psychiatrists from my experience are screwed themselves

Well from the "trying to reduce the overall number of sweeping generalisations" point of view that's not helping much :)

While I agree with you that psychiatry does seem to tolerate a great many poor members of the profession, labelling them all as "screwed" is a tad over the top, IMHO at least.

Yeah well, perhaps not all of them are screwed, but two who I have had contact with at least, so that is two out of the four says to me if they represent their profession, that's half of them that need to be on the other side of the table. The last one had to write a report for a compensation thing, and totally got my appearance wrong, he had me down as what at best describes an Peruvian, idiot.

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Post #: 24

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 3:31:58 AM

NocturnalStalker

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I personally study psychology to learn more about you humans.

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Post #: 25

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 3:45:00 AM

TotallyDude

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

I personally study psychology to learn more about you humans.

lol Have you learned anything interesting?

You got real purrrrdy hair incidentally. But why the Lone Ranger masque in your hand? If The Dude had a face that pretty he surely wouldn't cover it up!

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Post #: 26

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 3:56:41 AM

RapierFugue

Posts: 4740
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

The last one had to write a report for a compensation thing, and totally got my appearance wrong, he had me down as what at best describes an Peruvian, idiot.

It was the llama that fooled him, eh? ;)

< Message edited by RapierFugue -- 2/1/2011 3:57:58 AM >

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Post #: 27

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 4:28:39 AM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

yes. psychologists (and psychiatrists) CAN be of 'real use'.

Thank you. This is My belief as well.

Do people think the profession was started with the 'make a buck' motivation in mind?

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Post #: 28

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 4:35:08 AM

GreedyTop

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My mom was a psychologist (until freakin stupidity by licensing laws between one state and another got in the way).

I was seeing a psychologist for quite a few years, and I credit him with me not following through on suicide.

I still seek out counseling by psychologists when I am overwhelmed by negativity.

I am grateful for psychologists, for being able to get the meds I needed, when I needed them.

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RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 4:44:05 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

yes. psychologists (and psychiatrists) CAN be of 'real use'.

Thank you. This is My belief as well.

You are both kinky.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 30

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 4:47:00 AM

LadyPact

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Yeah. Contact the press. It's breaking news. LOL.

What can I say? I really do believe that some intentions are good.

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Post #: 31

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 4:50:58 AM

TotallyDude

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Joined: 1/30/2011
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quote:

Thank you. This is My belief as well.

Do people think the profession was started with the 'make a buck' motivation in mind?

There is such a wide difference in training, talent, and work ethic from one mental health professional to another that I think a lot of people can have one, or even several, bad experiences with seeking treatment. Even if a person gets a gifted, well qualified therapist, there is always a chance that either the therapist and the patient won't develop a dynamic or that the patient simply will not respond to the treatment techniques in which the therapist is trained.

What adds another layer of frustration in the United States is that the referral process can be maddening. If a person doesn't have a GP in particular, it seems like it's really difficult for them to get a good referral. Obviously if a patient does their homework and is assertive and trusts in the process and is willing to try out different therapists they are likely to get the help they need, but so many people who are in need of therapy lack the resources or wherewithal to navigate through this labyrinth that they're just as likely to end up with someone who doesn't work for them and walk away resenting the process.

These people then often do what I feel the OP did, and they look for confirming evidence that all Psychology is a racket. There is plenty of it out there if one is willing to believe any bad thing one hears. Psychology is such a new discipline, and especially around the time of Freud and Jung (Fin de Siecle Venice and all that) these were guys literally trying to patch together something rough and ready on the fly. Bad ideas were accepted until something better came along. Sometimes Freud in particular was probably dishonest or at least played free and loose with the facts (the Dora case, for instance). All of this combines to provide a mountain of anecdotal evidence for people who want to discredit a discipline they've had bad experiences with and that other people who have also had bad experiences want to see discredited.

It's really sad because I honestly feel like finding a competent mental health professional can literally be the difference between life and death or between a good life and a wasted one for so many people.

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Post #: 32

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 4:58:19 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

This...

quote:

There is such a wide difference in training, talent, and work ethic from one mental health professional to another that I think a lot of people can have one, or even several, bad experiences with seeking treatment.

and this...

quote:

It's really sad because I honestly feel like finding a competent mental health professional can literally be the difference between life and death or between a good life and a wasted one for so many people.

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Post #: 33

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 5:14:28 AM

Rule

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Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
I really do believe that some intentions are good.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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Post #: 34

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 5:22:07 AM

Rule

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude
All of this combines to provide a mountain of anecdotal evidence for people who want to discredit a discipline they've had bad experiences with and that other people who have also had bad experiences want to see discredited.

It's really sad because I honestly feel like finding a competent mental health professional can literally be the difference between life and death or between a good life and a wasted one for so many people.

I am one such person too. It is my hypothesis that there would be far less ill people if all (incompetent) physicians and psychiatrists were evicted from Earth. Let them colonize Mars!

(in reply to TotallyDude)

Post #: 35

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 6:18:46 AM

DarkSteven

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A psychiatrist is nothing more than a tool. There are times that their use is needed, and times when it is not or even counterproductive. Depends on how they are used.

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Post #: 36

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 7:02:51 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

Psychologists, are they in reality any use to man or beast, or are they just existing to create a profession for themselves ?

Depends on the psychologist and on the person going.

Mine was life changing. Then again, I went in with the intention of turning every stone in my mind and seeing what was beneath it, and open to doing something about the things that needed changing.

If one is not ready to really look in the mirror, one won't get anything out of therapy.

This is not to say that every psychologist is competent. Then again, not every doctor, lawyer, mechanic, graphic artist...(you get the idea) is competent, either.

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Post #: 37

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 1:54:27 PM

NocturnalStalker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude

quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

I personally study psychology to learn more about you humans.

lol Have you learned anything interesting?

You got real purrrrdy hair incidentally. But why the Lone Ranger masque in your hand? If The Dude had a face that pretty he surely wouldn't cover it up!

It has it's sections. The whole classical conditioning with positive/negative reinforcements and punishments can be somewhat eye-opening if you have severe phobias. I would enjoy performing that Little Albert experiment on a few people I know even if it is frowned upon.

The masque is to protect the face!

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Post #: 38

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 1:59:09 PM

sexyred1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

Psychologists, are they in reality any use to man or beast, or are they just existing to create a profession for themselves ?

Depends on the psychologist and on the person going.

Mine was life changing. Then again, I went in with the intention of turning every stone in my mind and seeing what was beneath it, and open to doing something about the things that needed changing.

If one is not ready to really look in the mirror, one won't get anything out of therapy.

This is not to say that every psychologist is competent. Then again, not every doctor, lawyer, mechanic, graphic artist...(you get the idea) is competent, either.

This. And I for one, have never found any psychologist to be the least bit helpful; in fact, I was pretty horrified by their behaviors. I actually had one get angry and say "you know too much about yourself". I said, isn't self awareness a good thing and he said, no, that is usually what I like to work on with people, uncovering things they don't know about themselves. Uh, ok....

I have always envied those who found good ones and who found help with them.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 2/1/2011 2:00:52 PM >

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Post #: 39

RE: Psychologists, are they any real use ? - 2/1/2011 2:41:09 PM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker

I personally study psychology to learn more about you humans.

Perhaps you would learn more about people by actually getting out to meet them with an open mind and there come up with your own conclusions, not someone elses.

Or it could be seen as if a person studies health and it is not their profession, then, they are looking for fault in themselves, or trying to be what he good books say is good.

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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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Post #: 40

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