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Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 6:28:37 AM

DarkSteven

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Not militarily. Ideologically.

Way back when, the USA stated a radio station called the Voice of America. It broadcast pro-US sentiments and sentiments against the local country. I know that Cuba was a target, and believe that the Soviet bloc was also targeted.

I don't know if that's still in existence, but one factor not mentioned in the convulsions of Egypt is US television and movies.

The American Dream is powerful. If you work hard and keep your nose clean, you can achieve. Even Al Bundy and Homer Simpson were able to afford stay at home wives, a house, a car, and children on a blue collar salary. Picture the effect on a college educated, unemployed young Arab man seeing the gilded story of the American Dream. In a country where criticism of the country's leader can lead to interrogation and imprisonment, what a weird place it must seem where the GOP's current sole mission is to criticize and impeded Obama, like the Dems' mission was under Bush.

The irony is that the American Dream is slowly dying in the US. Factory work is drying up as it's offshored. Easy money and life's little luxuries are getting harder to come by. It's a ghost of what it once was. A very powerful ghost nonetheless.

IMO, that's the real reason that the Islamic states demonized the West so much. They were terrified of American ideals, American values.

This is one of the reasons I'm cautiously optimistic about how well the US will be able to relate to whatever new regime arrives in Egypt. They may not like some of our values, but they sure as hell like our iPods and cars.

I just hope that we're farsighted enough to offer economic advice to the Egyptians. If they start developing capitalist structures like production facilities and call centers over there, we'll be able to relate to them and work with them.

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 2/3/2011 6:29:48 AM >

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 7:08:00 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

The irony is that the American Dream is slowly dying in the US. Factory work is drying up as it's offshored... I just hope that we're farsighted enough to offer economic advice to the Egyptians. If they start developing capitalist structures like production facilities and call centers over there, we'll be able to relate to them and work with them.

Yeah, we could offshore jobs to Egypt too.

K.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 8:45:22 AM

Moonhead

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That'd endear you to them more than anything else might, I suspect.

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 8:46:46 AM

mnottertail

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Cheap lush egyptian cotton bathrobes at Wal-Mart? Fuckin' Sie A!!!!!!

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 9:09:37 AM

Musicmystery

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They're a major grain producer, so they'd be competition there.

But they're also a major energy producer........

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 9:10:36 AM

mnottertail

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What can they do? 4-5 million bbls a day?

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 9:14:47 AM

Musicmystery

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In 2008, oil consumption reached to 697,000 bbl/d (110,800 m3/d), so they are now a net importer.

But natural gas output continued to increase and reached 48.3 billion cubic meters in 2008.

The Ministry of Petroleum and Mineral Resources has established expanding the Egyptian petrochemical industry and increasing exports of natural gas as its most significant strategic objectives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Egypt

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/3/2011 9:18:09 AM >

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 10:32:06 AM

flcouple2009

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

What can they do? 4-5 million bbls a day?

Their big deposit is natural gas not oil.

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 10:35:48 AM

DarkSteven

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Petrochemicals don't matter.

The Arabs' royal families have been getting rich from the royalties from their extraction. But none of it has trickled down to the average guy.

There has been no emphasis on industries that provide upward mobility to the lower classes.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 10:51:41 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

There has been no emphasis on industries that provide upward mobility to the lower classes.

Ah, well, then we can't help them much... they're already doing things our way.

K.

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 11:23:07 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

If you work hard and keep your nose clean, you can achieve.

No offence to Americans in general, but I don't think that the rest of the world generally sees the relatively opulent American lifestyle to have much to do with working hard, Steven.

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 11:54:57 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Petrochemicals don't matter.

The Arabs' royal families have been getting rich from the royalties from their extraction. But none of it has trickled down to the average guy.

There has been no emphasis on industries that provide upward mobility to the lower classes.

Petrochemicals may not matter per se but the wealth derived from them surely does. Those who prop up autocracies tend to be regarded in the same light as the autocracy. Has the lesson of Iran being forgotten already?

My suspicion is that this is a far more realistic reason why "the Islamic states demonized the West so much." than the reason offered in OP. There are other reasons too, particularly the Israel thing.

It seems to me that the current demand in Egypt Tunisia and elsewhere in the Islamic world for democratic rights tells us that people deprived of freedom prefer to attain freedom than demonise those who already enjoy it.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/3/2011 11:57:07 AM >

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 11:58:03 AM

ashjor911

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If Egypt will become strong & independent after 100 years (like USA or UK today)
& if Egypt will go under a Seville war for 13-15 years & half of the people die in that war, I think that they are ok with that,
If they or any other Arab country have just a little bit of democracy in the past 2 years, they & I will accept that
Because there will be a time that new generation will come & ask for more,
An example (100 years ago USA was in a Seville war, no matter who won, but the democracy rule
After 60 or more years the racism has been rule out of USA & now USA is the most power full country in the world) you cannot go from a dictatorship to a freakin full democracy in single day USA did it in 100 years.
I am not saying that it’s a long time but the way people change ruling will have to change with them,
If any other country can achieve what (USA & the people of USA did in 100 year) & do that in 200 is a great freakin country.
& if there is an (Islamic government) in Egypt for some time the American administration will do the impossible to change that, or make them allies like KSA.
But if that come true the Egyptian people will rage once more & change for the best
My own personal opinion.

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 11:58:26 AM

pahunkboy

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Shouldn't these rioters be hungry and tired by now?

Why not take a break? Get a good night sleep - have a nice meal- a coffee- a bubble bath.

Why are they so disruptive? One has to eventually eat!

(in reply to tweakabelle)

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 12:01:17 PM

mnottertail

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If they can't outlast the london street punks who invaded and burned out parlaiment and deposed the queen only a fortnight ago, completely taking over the Government and BBC without as much as a glass of Guinness between them, do you think Egyptians deserve their revolution, while stopping for a drink of water?

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 12:01:32 PM

popeye1250

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Steven, I think in the Soviet block and Eastern Europe it was called "Radio Free Europe" in the 50's and 60's.
As for the American Dream it went on life support with "NAFTA" in 1994 thankyou Bill Clinton!
Everyone knows that a worker making $30 an hour and benefits can't compete with slave labor making $5 a day and no benefits, everyone except our government and big corporations who keep trying to tell us that "free trade" and "globalism" is "good" for us of course!
Only everyone knows that those things are only "good" for big corporations and not The People. And certainly not for the slave labor.
We have a seperation of church and state in the U.S. We need to have a seperation of business and state as well. Look at who got bailed out with our money, big business not Joe the welder!
Until we get out of all those "free-trade deals" there's not going to be any "American Dream."
Unless working people can earn a good week's pay in this country we won't be much of a "market" for any company.
And as far as exporting American t.v. and movies abroad, we shouldn't do it! Can you imagine them watching, "The Biggest Loser!" "AIEEE! How much filaffel can that cow eat?"
Or "Brokedick Mountain", "Achmed and Mustaffa travel to the mountains to escape the sword of Sharia but get caught by one of their wives."
Or how about a Three Stooges remake movie? "Ok Boys! We have a work order to tear down those ugly pyramids, let's get to woik! Woo, woo, woo!" "Oh boy, DYNAMITE!" "Put that down you chucklehead!"

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 12:11:31 PM

pahunkboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

If they can't outlast the london street punks who invaded and burned out parlaiment and deposed the queen only a fortnight ago, completely taking over the Government and BBC without as much as a glass of Guinness between them, do you think Egyptians deserve their revolution, while stopping for a drink of water?

Except for these rioters are starting to look silly.

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 12:16:20 PM

pahunkboy

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ABCNEWS REPORTER THREATENED WITH BEHEADING

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 12:16:44 PM

hlen5

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I think Egypt and the other Middle Eastern countries have a far clearer eye on what the US is about than the average US citizen has on them.

I don't see how the entire world could come to live like we do. We are 4% of the world's population and consume 25% of the world's natural resources. The math does not compute.

I think it was Churchchill that said "Democracy is the second worst form of government. The first is anything else". Our rickety system of government is enviable compared to others. I think we should keep our noses out of others' politics and not prop up dictators so we can keep guzzling oil.

Do I think things could become more equitable all the way around? Yes I do. Should they become more equitable? Absolutely.

So lets hear it for the protestors in Egypt and hope they win!

ETA: And the protesting Tunisians, Jordanians and.....

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 2/3/2011 1:12:33 PM >

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RE: Egypt was invaded by the ghost of the United States. - 2/3/2011 12:19:22 PM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

If they can't outlast the london street punks who invaded and burned out parlaiment and deposed the queen only a fortnight ago, completely taking over the Government and BBC without as much as a glass of Guinness between them, do you think Egyptians deserve their revolution, while stopping for a drink of water?

Except for these rioters are starting to look silly.

Hunky shouldn't you stop for a glass of water? Or maybe six?

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 2/3/2011 12:35:21 PM >

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