Defiant sub

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matttrick -> Defiant sub (2/3/2011 11:05:06 AM)
I am pretty new to being in a relationship where I can act out a dominant role with someone who is willing. I have been dominant in relationships before, but as the girls I was with were not on the same page, in the aftermath I was called controlling. This girl I am with now is more on the same page, with a big contradiction. She likes when I take charge. She likes to be dominated. However, she is very defiant. If I don't overpower her mentally, she tries to take charge. I get flustered. We dated over the summer and things were progressing well enough in that regard. Some crazy external things happened and we stopped seeing each other for a couple of months. Since we got back together it has been different. She is more defiant and it discourages me. I have to be agressive at an even higher level to get anywhere, and at times it just seems to solve nothing. She has recently had some very bad luck. She got in a car accident, has had some money problems, and spent a week in the hospital with an illness. She gets depressed and its like once she is down in that hole, she gets stuck there and becomes destructive. I know she needs me to correct this behavior but when I try, she just gets angry. I am just not sure how exactly to do it. She has told me I need to be more assertive, but when I am it is met with resistance and it confuses me. How would you deal with this?

IronBear -> RE: Defiant sub (2/3/2011 12:15:26 PM)
Depends on how emotionally you are involved with her. If the relationship is new then ask yourself why you feel the need to become involved with such a troublesome child. If it is because of some White Knight feeling, take a step backwards and try to understand you are heading into a long time problem and I'll bet my pay that she is manipulating you. (Been there done that and it cast me more dollars than I could afford). Also of course if you stay to help her because you are feeling sorry for her you are doing her an injustice which can result in long term pain. When in doubt, leave. Just my 2 cents worth of personal experience.

sexyred1 -> RE: Defiant sub (2/3/2011 12:22:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: matttrick She has recently had some very bad luck. She got in a car accident, has had some money problems, and spent a week in the hospital with an illness. She gets depressed and its like once she is down in that hole, she gets stuck there and becomes destructive. I know she needs me to correct this behavior but when I try, she just gets angry. I am just not sure how exactly to do it. She has told me I need to be more assertive, but when I am it is met with resistance and it confuses me. How would you deal with this? This is a big deal. When you experience severe life issues, it is very hard to be submissive at all times, simply because tough situations require one to assume control of your own life, so lashing out at you, is really likely due to frustration. I know when I am severely stressed, it is a dichotomy to want more control over the bad situations and yet, you desire the cathartic release that submission can bring. So you need to decipher whether it really is defiance, or a reaction to severe stress or lastly, your style of dominance is not compatible with her style of submission.

matttrick -> RE: Defiant sub (2/3/2011 12:42:15 PM)
Thanks for the reply. I really do appreciate it and I am asking as humbly as I can. I am naive to the intricacies of these relationships. It's not that I feel sorry for her. It's nothing like that. For years I have read blogs of submissive women. I find it exciting to hear them talk about how they felt as they were dominated. I got that with her at first but now it seems to have gone outside of that. As I said, when I am not assertive enough she goes the opposite direction of submissive. It is confusing. We have been together for about 7 months. We had a good rapport going early on but after the split it has been a little different. Maybe me using the term sub is wrong. I don't know. I just know that we have a great relationship otherwise and I would like to see if we can get back on track. obviously if it doesnt work it doesnt work.

lally2 -> RE: Defiant sub (2/3/2011 12:48:49 PM)
i think you need to start doing this youre way. youre the Dom right? if youre way isnt assertive enough for her then its a no-match, sorry. notwithstanding the latest problems, she sounds like someone who needs to be 'made' to submit or she doesnt feel dominated enough. thats maybe not youre way of doing things. i think be there as her friend for now. then have a chat and tell her how you feel about everything and about how you see a Ds relationship working for you. youre way is no less valid than her way, its just possible that they dont mix too well. right now youre not being Dom at all, youre pandering entirely to how she dictates things work for her. no wonder youre confused and disheartened. in the end a relationship should be fun and fulfilling, it shouldnt undermine who you are, ever!

osf -> RE: Defiant sub (2/3/2011 1:43:35 PM)
sounds like they are both new to this and haven't figured it out yet unfortunately for a budding dom it takes a few failed relationships to come into his own truck on and see what happens and better luck next time

DarkSteven -> RE: Defiant sub (2/3/2011 1:49:29 PM)
Give her a good hard spanking. This will clear a whole snotload of negative emotions and reinforce both your roles.

SourandSweet -> RE: Defiant sub (2/3/2011 2:37:42 PM)
I get bratty/ defiant when I'm feeling ignored, when I'm tired, when I'm stressed, when I have PMT etc. My doms pretty laid back. He leaves it for a bit - literally ignores it (depending) then if it doesn't stop we talk about it. He'll ask me why. He'll help me solve any problems etc if he can. Then he'll make it clear that if it continues he's going to punish me. It sounds like she's been through alot recently, maybe that's behind it? Or maybe she's just 'kicking against the traces'? I'd strongly suggest talking about it with her. Tell her how it's making you feel and ask her exactly what she expects from you. :-)

NihilusZero -> RE: Defiant sub (2/3/2011 3:21:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: matttrick She has told me I need to be more assertive, but when I am it is met with resistance and it confuses me. How would you deal with this? By leaving. There are surely plenty of different personal WIITWD styles, but two of the more prominent ones I typically see are: a) people who have their D/s validated by the tranquility and fluidity of the role-cycle (D-type leading, s-type following) , and b) people who have their D/s validated by having a sufficient number of moments of conflict/correction (with the dominant needing to enforce Hir dominance, and the submissive needing to be put in hir place). Trying to join those two distinct D/s styles/mentalities doesn't really work.

dreamerdreaming -> RE: Defiant sub (2/3/2011 3:51:24 PM)
1) She should be evaluated for clinical depression or whatever else (we don't know her, so I'm just giving my best guess obviously) she's got going on emotionally, and get help from a professional. You can be supportive but you can't fix her. Only she can, and a professional therapist can help her with that but she's got to do the work herself. I agree with IronBear. Why do you feel the need to help this girl? Are you a rescuer? Understand your own motivations. Is it guilt, is it love, is it need, is it compassion, is it selfishness, is it a white knight syndrome? What drives you? 2) Seek a reciprocal relationship, always. One in which you give as much as you get. On the whole, she doesn't seem very compatible with you D/s-wise. If you're already having to twist yourself into a pretzel to accomodate her needs: she's the dom, and its not likely to be any different even if you do change to fit her needs. because then you'll hafta keep changing to suit her, and you won't get a chance to be yourself. Why bother? Just be a good friend to her, and seek someone whose needs and desires already fit well with yours.

LadyPact -> RE: Defiant sub (2/3/2011 4:08:17 PM)
I'd deal with it by getting another sub. This is not said to be misconstrued that you should abandon her while the chips are down. I think, as a friend, you could be very supportive while her health and other issues are being straightened out. Still, you need to make your position known. Do you really want somebody who is defiant when things aren't going her way? From this little bit, it sounds like you're hitting your head against the wall and that's not especially making for a happy relationship. When the bad patch is over, you need to talk about how you envision the power structure. It takes more than one person being Dominant and another being submissive to have real compatibility in a dynamic.

XenoMaster -> RE: Defiant sub (2/3/2011 10:00:53 PM)
Without knowing more, there are a few options I can think of: 1. Lay off the D/s relationship for a bit till things calm down. If she is having to take charge a lot then let her get her life sorted out and then figure out what D/s boundaries to establish once both your heads are in the game. 2. Punishment that is not pleasant. If she is getting bratty and defiant and really wants you to take control begin correcting the behavior. Be loving but firm and make sure the punishment is not something she enjoys. What will work here only you can know. Make sure it's not play whether that's painful spanking, time out, tying her up and not playing or whatever. If she rebels against this, either give up the relationship or give up D/s in the relationship. 3. (Most Recommended) Talk with her! Figure out where you both want to go. See if she can tell you how you can more effectively be dominant and help her to submit. Real conversation almost always either improves or makes worse a relationship. See where it goes.

ranja -> RE: Defiant sub (2/4/2011 2:00:57 AM)
I really have no clue about your situation from what little you say other than things aren't as nice as you want them to be... this will happen time after time after time, as shit always happens, i hope you find a solution. I don't know how healthy she is after her hospital thing but if she is healed properly and likes to be over powered and you like to over power her then maybe this will work for you: We own a pair of leather handcuffs with fiddly buckles to fasten them... sometimes my Husband will try to put them on me while i fight with all my might to get away... eventually He always wins as He is stronger, but it is such a lovely struggle... it does us both a world of good

Palliata -> RE: Defiant sub (2/4/2011 3:37:24 AM)
This basically mirrors the rest, but to me: Push as hard as you feel comfortable pushing in terms of mental subversion, physical punishment, all the various tools in your repertoire, over the course of one long weekend session, and when you have taken things as far as you're comfortable taking them, explain to her that you're entirely done with her bullshit and that she will either play by your rules or not at all. M/s mirrors the vanilla world in that a relationship should make you happy, and if it doesn't you should dissolve it. Period.

allthatjaz -> RE: Defiant sub (2/4/2011 5:50:21 AM)
I'm not going to suggest you leave her like some have. I don't know how important dominance is to you but to some people its not the be all of everything. It sounds like the rest of your relationship is close and you guys have already invested 7 months so there has to be something. Seriously you need to sit down and talk to her. Tell her what you told us. Tell her that your not prepared to play her silly games because you sure as hell can't dominate someone who always resists being dominated. Throw the ball back in her court and give her chance to tell you exactly why she is behaving like this. Good luck and I hope all goes well.

lally2 -> RE: Defiant sub (2/4/2011 6:40:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: matttrick She has told me I need to be more assertive, but when I am it is met with resistance and it confuses me. How would you deal with this? a) people who have their D/s validated by the tranquility and fluidity of the role-cycle (D-type leading, s-type following) , and b) people who have their D/s validated by having a sufficient number of moments of conflict/correction (with the dominant needing to enforce Hir dominance, and the submissive needing to be put in hir place). Trying to join those two distinct D/s styles/mentalities doesn't really work. i agree. basically she's pushing you to take her down - have the snot smacked out of her, force her into submission. but ill bet that if you actually did, i mean really really, no holes barred smacked her down she'd head for the door. shes safe with you and she knows it. even at youre very worst she knows youre still within her safe zone. personally i wouldnt go there - unless you want to. if its a need in her then those smack downs are going to keep coming and is that youre style? youd be feeding a need in her, which arguably isnt a bad thing, we are here to meet each others needs. but is she feeding youres? is this an aspect you can live with. in the end, which are you....a:) or b:) and which is she. you wouldnt go far wrong asking her to read this thread btw.

Twoshoes -> RE: Defiant sub (2/4/2011 6:53:30 AM)
A far better alternative is to just ignore her till she needs your attention. This "smacking down" business seems unsavory and dangerous. On the other hand, D/s isn't meant to treat depression - keep that in mind.

StrongSpirit -> RE: Defiant sub (2/4/2011 6:53:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: XenoMaster Without knowing more, there are a few options I can think of: 1. Lay off the D/s relationship for a bit till things calm down. If she is having to take charge a lot then let her get her life sorted out and then figure out what D/s boundaries to establish once both your heads are in the game. 2. Punishment that is not pleasant. If she is getting bratty and defiant and really wants you to take control begin correcting the behavior. Be loving but firm and make sure the punishment is not something she enjoys. What will work here only you can know. Make sure it's not play whether that's painful spanking, time out, tying her up and not playing or whatever. If she rebels against this, either give up the relationship or give up D/s in the relationship. 3. (Most Recommended) Talk with her! Figure out where you both want to go. See if she can tell you how you can more effectively be dominant and help her to submit. Real conversation almost always either improves or makes worse a relationship. See where it goes. l spanking, time out, tying her up and not playing or whatever. If she rebels against this, either give up the relationship or give up D/s in the relationship. I would agree with most of what Xeno says. I would also some more advice 1 It seems clear to me that she is getting bratty in order to force you to punish her in ways she enjoys. 2. So giver her some punishment just to start off the session. Sometimes this is called 'maintenance' punishment. Make this a very strong punishment the first couple of times. 3. If this does not calm her down, then after you have punished her make it clear that you will NOT be bullied. Tell her that you are a dominant that does not let some disobedient SAM order him around. Say that you are not just a sadist waiting for his masochist to tell him how to please her and that you require respect and obedience. Add "When you are ready to be obedient instead of demanding that I cater to your desire for pain, we can play again." Then stop playing. 4. Regardless of whether you had to do step 3, you need to talk to her about what is going on. One of those in-depth conversations. You don't need to solver her problems, you need to hear them from her. Let her talk about them until there is nothing left to say. 5. If you can solver one or more of her problems don't try to do it in that conversation. Bring it up the next day, not in the same conversation

OsideGirl -> RE: Defiant sub (2/4/2011 6:56:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: matttrick She has recently had some very bad luck. She got in a car accident, has had some money problems, and spent a week in the hospital with an illness. She gets depressed and its like once she is down in that hole, she gets stuck there and becomes destructive. I know she needs me to correct this behavior but when I try, she just gets angry. No, she does NOT need you to correct this behavior. She needs to speak to her doctor and probably a counselor. You're not qualified to do this.

lally2 -> RE: Defiant sub (2/4/2011 7:31:52 AM)
good thing she doesnt live in the UK then. here doctors give you ten minutes, a bottle of pills and show you the door with the dubious advice that rest and less stress will help. here in the UK we just own our shit and get on with it - we dont have a choice really, lol.

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