RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (Full Version)

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came4U -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 6:07:24 AM)

“Society must take every means at its disposal to defend itself against the emergence of a parallel power which defies the elected power”

Pierre Elliot Trudeau

(in response to the October Crisis of  1970).




DarkSteven -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 6:10:52 AM)

It's a pluralistic world.

I deplore the Muslims who practice sharia.  Hopefully, it's being eroded through contact with the West, despite nutcases like Angle insisting that it's becoming the law of the land in the US.  However, the Muslims I've known are reasonable and willing to live in/accept the West.

Jesus commanded his followers to go out and live amongst those who were different from them.  And not solely to convert them by proselytizing ether.  Quite a few Christians prefer to hang with only those like them, though.




Moonhead -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 6:27:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
I deplore the Muslims who practice sharia.  Hopefully, it's being eroded through contact with the West, despite nutcases like Angle insisting that it's becoming the law of the land in the US.

It is. The knowledge that the lunatic fringe of the religion acts so unreasonably because they know that their culture is moving away from them (and are trying to stop this process by putting a brake on history) inspires less panic and paranoia, though. Where would the right be without being able to claim that all muslims want to cut your wife's clit off and stone your daughter to death?




ashjor911 -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 7:27:01 AM)

clits beeing cut off .... from where did you get these things
i never heard of this ever
from a first read WTF....
after some google & calling my doctor syaing that that clit cutting thing is actually hapening in africa alone
you can put that on all.....
(Numerous times she refused to discuss the Arab invasion and occupation of Palestine)
i will honstly look to read that from you that is how on GODs Green Earth occupation & invasion were made by Arab & not by UK or Belfore Promise.......
or without the supporting so called (Israielie loby in USA),
by all means prove your point....




Aneirin -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 7:50:51 AM)

Ashjor, I believe Moonhead mentioned that in sarcasm to be an example of extreme anti Muslim thinking, and probably indicative of the sort of rubbish uneducated haters might think and accept as common fact. For them, there are many, people who just hate because something is different. Different is seen as a threat and there must be countered by maleducation so others see the threat, for haters feel comfortable when they are surrounded by their own kind.

It is true many in the west know very little about Islam other than what they hear via media and the maleducators, and I do suspect, the same exists for many Muslims who hear much the same, but for all the irrational haters in the west, I do suspect Islam also has it's own variant of.

So, it serves the world, East, West, North and South, all points of the compass to learn about each other so we may dispel all this maleducation that has come at us through history and the present. We must put aside irrational hate and talk to each other as fellow humans and it may even come as a surprise, that we are in fact very alike.

Putting aside the irrational hate and talking amongst ourselves as normal people denies the governments their motive for aiding merchant operations overseas.

My experience of Muslims was by living in a Muslim country for a while, where I found them to just the same as ourselves, but with honour and respect for those who were seen as welcome visitors to their country.




ashjor911 -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 9:17:37 AM)

There is not much different between us we all are human,
My family is originally from Jerusalem & my grandfather told me once that Muslims & other religions are brothers we may pray together in hard times we worship the God everyone as he know best, I know that , I still believe that with all my heart, only thing I do not understand is why we are so hated by the west.
There will be a time that ravels the truth behind (9-11) & someday the truth will become clear,
I really hope that the time will be soon,
In the mean time let me say this & I know all of us agree on that no matter what you believe in:
(We hate to see humans suffer or even sick, we wish all humans good & long life, above all we wish them happy, we have sheared times in sorrow & sheared times in happiness, I wish some time to walk in the old streets of Jerusalem like my grandfather did along with our brothers Christians and Jews, in peace that is not the result of ending the war but the inner peace within our hearts,
We did it once & we can do it again that land will become one more time the Holy Land for all)
Salaam Aliakmon = whishing peace all over you.




rulemylife -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 10:01:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

There is not much different between us we all are human,
My family is originally from Jerusalem & my grandfather told me once that Muslims & other religions are brothers we may pray together in hard times we worship the God everyone as he know best, I know that , I still believe that with all my heart, only thing I do not understand is why we are so hated by the west.
There will be a time that ravels the truth behind (9-11) & someday the truth will become clear,
I really hope that the time will be soon,
In the mean time let me say this & I know all of us agree on that no matter what you believe in:
(We hate to see humans suffer or even sick, we wish all humans good & long life, above all we wish them happy, we have sheared times in sorrow & sheared times in happiness, I wish some time to walk in the old streets of Jerusalem like my grandfather did along with our brothers Christians and Jews, in peace that is not the result of ending the war but the inner peace within our hearts,
We did it once & we can do it again that land will become one more time the Holy Land for all)
Salaam Aliakmon = whishing peace all over you.



To say the west hates Islam is a broad overstatement, but I do have two questions.

First, what is it that you think is the truth behind 9/11 that will eventually be revealed?

The second is how you can say  "We hate to see humans suffer or even sick, we wish all humans good & long life,..." in light of your earlier comment:

quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

Think of stoning men & women for adultery as a cleaning punishment to let them pass into heaven without a sin.










Aneirin -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 10:31:29 AM)

Wa  Alaikum Assalam

Why the world is so full of hate I believe is one of the negative products of advanced communication, the more we know, the more we seem to have ammunition to direct the negative energy away from ourselves onto others we view as more worthy of the scorn we ourselves should deal within ourselves, but it is always easier to blame others, see others as the reason we are not as happy as we could be.

At one time before the world became such a small place, what was there to hate, aye, perhaps those who lorded over you, or hassled your life, as even then life could not be a bowl of roses if one chose not to see it, but the ability to hate comes from within the person, it is a human frailty, a state of mind. For sure that was what the Christian teaching was about when it said to love thy enemy as thy self, if we don't love ourselves, how can we love our enemy, how can we love when there is so much hate, and is the real reason for hate really to do with us hating ourselves.

But the world is becoming a much smaller place and not just in terms of communication for the world's population is rising rapidly, more land is needed, demanded and taken, as in the Israel/Palestine issue to mention one in the very fore of Western mindsets. With the increased demand for land, there is an increased demand for resources,food, fuel, minerals, energy and water, those with control are working hard to keep it, those that benefit want it and more or at least what they believe they once had and those that don't have it seek all that they see others have.

Then there is the other way, quite often the cleric way, perhaps a well intentioned way at first, the way that eschews everything that others have, what is seen as evil, and in a way, it is because it is connected to greed and avarice and the rest of the seven deadly sins and that list based on earlier lists in many religions, so I guess it is seen as the West is sinful and promotes sin because those that don't have want and that can't be due to opportunity and dwindling resources, can't be for everyone and might only be for the extreme minority who hold power, presidents and rulers perhaps in some countries, rulers who ignore the plight of their countrymen, enter the current Egyptian  and Tunisian situation here also, Yemen and Algeria to a lesser extent.

But why is it perceived that the West hates the Middle East, or more accurately, Muslims, well, my belief is because the Muslims control something they desperately need and desire more than anything else, that thing that aids them in their Empirical quest and the control it ultimately brings for the minority who have to hand a meagre proportion of it down to the masses so they can buy their support for other enterprises to seek more wealth. Of course to garner support for empirical quests it helps if the enemy is seen as to be something inhuman, a sub species that are not as good as themselves, people in Colonial times reffered to as at best, the natives and at worst ,( apologies for offensive word used as illustrative not intentionally offensive) the wog. Tied to that, is our old enemy eugenics, something that is still alive and well with some people, and people in powerful positions although they won't declare it openly, they aren't stupid, but once in power, they can try to continue their policies by way of less offensive policies.

A line from the most Excellent recent Movie Avatar by James Cameron;....

If someone is sitting on something you want, make them your enemy and you can justify taking it from them.

Those on the internet who are most vociferous in their hatred towards Muslims are merely products of the hate they feel for themselves and their impotency in not getting where they want to be, either that, or merely a sheep that follows the sheepdog of another.




ashjor911 -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 11:04:30 AM)

Dear rulemylife
I said (why we are so hated by west) & I mean by that is why people come from the area are heated by west not only Muslims, (some of my friends are Christians & they still heated in the west).
To answer your questions:
1- The truth behind (9-11) is made by someone or a group that is targeting the beginning of the war between 2 religion brothers (war on terror) will not mention any names in that matter.
2- Will answer this question with a question like why does the thief go to jail … it’s the law yes?
Why do they get stoned …? It’s just the law & they committed a sin.
In 1400 or so in Europe the witches has to be burned why?? It was law….!!




ashjor911 -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 11:06:43 AM)

I do agree with half what you wrote, & will add to your article if that is ok..
I love the people that hate me or us & still wish them happy & long life,
A KSA old military man once said to the people sitting near him: (I was in England in 1970 -1974) in an educational for my government, I have never seen a people who love us just because we are Arabs), I am not going to talk about now let’s forget that & remember how things were ….
I was not even born at that time but I wish I had …. Love to see it one day… some day.




allthatjaz -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 11:38:41 AM)

It said nothing in the Bible about burning witches but it does talk about stoning in the Koran and so it is Islamic law. For a Muslim to call it inhuman would be insulting the Prophet.




tazzygirl -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 11:43:36 AM)

Leviticus 20:27 "'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.'"




Aneirin -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 11:51:53 AM)

Let us all remember, books and laws were written by man

It does not take much imagination to suspect the different interpretations that have been written, let alone what perceptions man had from the words of God.

Evil exists in the minds of men.




tazzygirl -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 12:06:12 PM)

My post was in response to this

quote:

It said nothing in the Bible about burning witches but it does talk about stoning in the Koran and so it is Islamic law. For a Muslim to call it inhuman would be insulting the Prophet.


The Bible mentions nothing about burning... but it does stoning or killing them. I made no assertion to the rightness or wrongess of the passage... merely that it exists and we shouldnt put ourselves above others based upon that.




Politesub53 -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 12:08:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

Except I haven't.

Why don't you quote me what you thnk is a false statement.

I don't even know what subject you are talking about, excpet me. So yeah, I must have missed your posts.


"It is interesting that Tweak demands all recent history and events regarding Israel and Palestine must be ignored."

Your post 28, in reply to Tweaks post 27. Dont tell me you were talking about some other time, since this was a general reply. As for not spotting my posts on the topic.....Read the thread, but this time slowly.  




PeonForHer -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 12:10:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Leviticus 20:27 "'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.'"


Wow. Leviticus really was a hearty happy chappie, wasn't he?

I'm really, *really* tired of reading the rantings of fanatical lunatics who lived two thousand years ago, no matter which book they're written in and however many windbags in silly costumes keep telling us how great these people were.





tweakabelle -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 12:19:21 PM)

[sm=dontfeedtrolls.gif]




tazzygirl -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 12:39:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Leviticus 20:27 "'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.'"


Wow. Leviticus really was a hearty happy chappie, wasn't he?

I'm really, *really* tired of reading the rantings of fanatical lunatics who lived two thousand years ago, no matter which book they're written in and however many windbags in silly costumes keep telling us how great these people were.




Sweetness, how often do you see me post bible verses? I wasnt "preaching", just showing the bigotry of another poster.

Sorry you can understand that.




PeonForHer -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 2:06:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Sweetness, how often do you see me post bible verses? I wasnt "preaching", just showing the bigotry of another poster.



It was a comment about Leviticus and the crackpots who've been apologising for what he (and others like him) said for two thousand years , Tazzy. It wasn't targeted at you or anyone else here.




Moonhead -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 2:19:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
The Bible mentions nothing about burning...

Neither do most accounts of witch hunts. Historically puritans tended to hang them, and the burning thing was just added because it makes for more melodrama in fiction. Michael Reeve's other wise excellent film Witchfinder General (sometimes known as The Conqueror Worm in the 'States, because it has Vincent pice in it and nothing to do with Poe) did a lot to popularise this piece of misinformation.




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