RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West

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MrRodgers -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 2:22:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Islam does in fact hate the Jews, as none are even allowed to communicate travel to or even in country. Peace [sic] missions must be on neutral ground. This hate springs from Islam's belief in Zionism and all its attendant if imaginary evils. I can imagine the posts already, yes the threat...of Zionism. I have studied and seen more than enough of recent and 21st century Islam to have a right to feel that in the debate of Islam vs the west, theirs is still in far too many ways...a primitive culture Your study falls well short of the truth, if you are claiming the above to be true. As for stoning, it has (For the most part) only taken place in some Countries were fundamentalists hold sway. Or, as in Afghanistan, in areas were the Government doesnt have control. My study is more than enough to know that just recently the Saudis stoned a woman to death and has been doing so throughout history. It was as recently as 1969 that the last person sold as chattel (legal property)...in Saudi Arabia. You think I am talking through my hat and about history. These are the facts now and reflects to me again, a...primitive culture. Even imprisonment for religious and political offenses qualify as a primitive culture. A 16 year old girl just within a couple of years ago was in fact hung for 'violating' her chastity in Iran. Then the authorities claimed they didn't know she was 16. We in the west must be so much more in line with their thinking on that hey ? "Well, if she had been 18." I mean in the west are always hanging our 18 yr old girls for losing their cherry...right. Iran stays quite busy hanging 'sexual offenders.' Google is your friend. Read it and weep as it were: Soraya Manutchehri, 1986, stoned to death in Iran after being falsely accused of adultery Du’a Khalil Aswad, 2007, a 17-year-old stoned to death in Iraq. People who were almost stoned Amina Lawal, sentenced to death by stoning in Nigeria in 2002, but freed on appeal Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani sentenced to death by stoning in Iran in 2007, but sentence is under review Nigeria: http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/02/six-sharia-convicts-await-stoning.html Oh BTW, The Taliban are also still at it. It is only as we type that this type of culture in Islam...is under review.

tazzygirl -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 2:54:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Sweetness, how often do you see me post bible verses? I wasnt "preaching", just showing the bigotry of another poster. It was a comment about Leviticus and the crackpots who've been apologising for what he (and others like him) said for two thousand years , Tazzy. It wasn't targeted at you or anyone else here. Lets kiss and make up! [sm=kiss.gif]

slvemike4u -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 3:02:23 PM)
Slut.....

tazzygirl -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 3:04:36 PM)
yes? [:D]

PeonForHer -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 3:05:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirlLets kiss and make up! [sm=kiss.gif] Hokey dokey! [sm=kiss.gif]

Politesub53 -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/7/2011 3:33:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers My study is more than enough to know that just recently the Saudis stoned a woman to death and has been doing so throughout history. It was as recently as 1969 that the last person sold as chattel (legal property)...in Saudi Arabia. You think I am talking through my hat and about history. These are the facts now and reflects to me again, a...primitive culture. Even imprisonment for religious and political offenses qualify as a primitive culture. A 16 year old girl just within a couple of years ago was in fact hung for 'violating' her chastity in Iran. Then the authorities claimed they didn't know she was 16. We in the west must be so much more in line with their thinking on that hey ? "Well, if she had been 18." I mean in the west are always hanging our 18 yr old girls for losing their cherry...right. Iran stays quite busy hanging 'sexual offenders.' Google is your friend. Read it and weep as it were: Soraya Manutchehri, 1986, stoned to death in Iran after being falsely accused of adultery Du’a Khalil Aswad, 2007, a 17-year-old stoned to death in Iraq. People who were almost stoned Amina Lawal, sentenced to death by stoning in Nigeria in 2002, but freed on appeal Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani sentenced to death by stoning in Iran in 2007, but sentence is under review Nigeria: http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2008/02/six-sharia-convicts-await-stoning.html Oh BTW, The Taliban are also still at it. It is only as we type that this type of culture in Islam...is under review. So if we discount the people who were almost stoned ( Your words ) that leaves two cases. Even I know there were more than that, but from a Muslim population of over 1.5 billion, two cases, or even 200 hardly equates to all Muslims does it. Before you get on your high horse about women sold as chattel, are you including the west, including the UK and the States, where women are sold as sex slaves ? Chattel as well, wouldnt you say. Read it and weep indeed.

luckydawg -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/8/2011 12:58:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ashjor911 clits beeing cut off .... from where did you get these things i never heard of this ever from a first read WTF.... after some google & calling my doctor syaing that that clit cutting thing is actually hapening in africa alone you can put that on all..... (Numerous times she refused to discuss the Arab invasion and occupation of Palestine) i will honstly look to read that from you that is how on GODs Green Earth occupation & invasion were made by Arab & not by UK or Belfore Promise....... or without the supporting so called (Israielie loby in USA), by all means prove your point.... the parts in red seems to be directed to me. Ashjor, do you not know that in 48 Jordan (west bank and east Jerusalem), Egypt(Gza), and Syria(Golan Heights), invaded and occuypied the land where Palestine was supposed to be? They held it with the blessing of the Arab Leauge untill 67. And they did not set up a state for the Palestinians. They kept the people suffering in camps. Do you really not know this? They didn't set up a state and just lives for Palestinians, they used it as a base to launch War on Israel. Its really sad. You are obviously very smart (chatting ina 2nd language is impressive). But that you don't know the basic history of your people...Arab Armies Patrolled Jerusalem for over 20 years, but didn't let your people have a state that you think Jews did 911... Its astounding Ignorance. No wonder your People live such hard lives Because they were all working for outside agendas

allthatjaz -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/8/2011 2:08:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Leviticus 20:27 "'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.'" Wow. Leviticus really was a hearty happy chappie, wasn't he? I'm really, really tired of reading the rantings of fanatical lunatics who lived two thousand years ago, no matter which book they're written in and however many windbags in silly costumes keep telling us how great these people were. Sweetness, how often do you see me post bible verses? I wasnt "preaching", just showing the bigotry of another poster. Sorry you can understand that. Bigot Wow that's a bit strong. Whilst I have every respect for Christians (note capital letters) I haven't read the bible and I bow to your better knowledge. So thank you tazzy for correcting me. [8\|]I made a mistake regarding what is said in the bible but regardless of that, we don't follow religious law in the west. I have family links with Islam and I have family links with Christians. The difference for me is I can see both sides. That makes me anything but a bigot.

calamitysandra -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/8/2011 5:05:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg ...He remained a hermit on Mount Carmel until he was instructed[2] to leave for Italy to preach against Albigensians, Bulgars, and patarini.[1] ... He wanted to convert a Cathar knight named Berenger (Berengarius). You know, I personally would be careful with using that example. The whole Albingenser/Catharer/Waldenser complex is among the more shameful events in the history of the catholic church. Plus, using catholic tradition as a source on this is a bit problematic, scientifically speaking, as well.

Moonhead -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/8/2011 5:30:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: calamitysandra You know, I personally would be careful with using that example. The whole Albingenser/Catharer/Waldenser complex is among the more shameful events in the history of the catholic church. Very true, particularly when somebody's line is that the mother church is more tolerant and benevolent than Islam. (It's surprising anybody considers even mentioning that in this context is a good idea, really...)

tazzygirl -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/8/2011 5:48:44 AM)
quote: Bigot Wow that's a bit strong. Whilst I have every respect for Christians (note capital letters) I haven't read the bible and I bow to your better knowledge. So thank you tazzy for correcting me. I made a mistake regarding what is said in the bible but regardless of that, we don't follow religious law in the west. I have family links with Islam and I have family links with Christians. The difference for me is I can see both sides. That makes me anything but a bigot. If you could see both sides, you wouldnt pick one over the other.

ashjor911 -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/8/2011 6:34:08 AM)
Dear Luckydawg, West bank & east of Jerusalem always was for Jordan, Gaza was & always will be as Palestinian Land, Golan Heights was & always will be a Syrian Land, In 1948 these Lands were free except for Gaza it was under the England occupation, They did not setup a state of Palestine on the Land that was never from Palestine that is true simply because (you cannot build a house on Land that you do not own). In 1976 Israel invaded these free lands & waited there to complete the real state of Israel (from al Fourat to the Neil). That is History not me saying that at all that what happened, Israel was founded on a land that was occupied by the English, (Belfor promise). & before that Palestine was under the Turkish occupation. After 1967 Jordan gave up west bank & east of Jerusalem for the Palestinian case, In my way of thinking that they cannot afford to free that Land. We don’t hate Jews or their religion. They were people among us living & eating with us. We hate the Israelis & there is huge different between Jews & Israelis. & I did not say that 9-11 was done by Jews, but it can be made by Moss ad right? Even that your post had some disrespect in it, I did replay to you with much respect to you & your believes you are older than me & I respect who are older than me. I am chatting in my second language & learning the third I still wish you a long life full of happiness & joy.

allthatjaz -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/8/2011 6:44:57 AM)
Oh I did that did I? well now lets see.... who prey am I bigoted against? Who's side was I actually on when I said what I did? You have a habit of jumping to the wrong conclusions. I am less of a bigot than probably anyone else you know and I find your accusation not only insulting to the core but hugely ignorant. Bigot is reserved for someone with prejudice and someone who shows prejudice is worthy of that insult. I showed none but you read something into what I wrote simply because you already had a low opinion of me. Your a stone thrower aren't you? Go and have a word with yourself you silly, silly woman.

LaTigresse -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/8/2011 6:58:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave The West and Islam have totally incompatible values. It's incomprehensible to me that others are unable to see that clearly; perhaps the wool is slowly being lifted from the eyes of some. Multiculturalism has failed. David Cameron of the UK, speaking (primarily) of Muslim groups: "Let's properly judge these organisations: Do they believe in universal human rights - including for women and people of other faiths? Do they believe in equality of all before the law? Do they believe in democracy and the right of people to elect their own government? Do they encourage integration or separatism? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994 I believe you and I have vastly different values. I believe you encourage separatism. You must go! I believe you do not believe in democracy and equality. I believe you do not believe in universal human rights including people of other faiths. I believe you must be keeeeeeeeeeled!!!!!!!!!!!

tazzygirl -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/8/2011 7:02:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz Oh I did that did I? well now lets see.... who prey am I bigoted against? Who's side was I actually on when I said what I did? You have a habit of jumping to the wrong conclusions. I am less of a bigot than probably anyone else you know and I find your accusation not only insulting to the core but hugely ignorant. Bigot is reserved for someone with prejudice and someone who shows prejudice is worthy of that insult. I showed none but you read something into what I wrote simply because you already had a low opinion of me. Your a stone thrower aren't you? Go and have a word with yourself you silly, silly woman. quote: It said nothing in the Bible about burning witches but it does talk about stoning in the Koran and so it is Islamic law. For a Muslim to call it inhuman would be insulting the Prophet. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3559985 Enough said.

starshineowned -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/8/2011 7:47:00 AM)
quote: I do not understand is why we are so hated by the west. quote: ORIGINAL: ashjor911 Going to reverberate what some have said: This is a very broad statement and thus so inaccurate. Hate and fear exist everywhere, and muslim faith is no more a target on any particular radar than something else. No issue what so ever here with any persons faith or lack there of except when it becomes extreme and lacks restraint and tolerance. To many folks out there feeling the need to usurp God all together and take the judgement of whether a person is worthy of him or not if they have such beliefs. We have a family that owns a store down the road that are muslim and ya couldn't ask for a friendlier folk to talk with. Think Master said they were from Iran but won't swear to it but Master often ends up having a quick trip to their store turn into a 45min trip because he ends up in conversation with the owner over just stuff like this. Remember that pendulum can swing both ways with a broad stroke. starshine

allthatjaz -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/8/2011 8:42:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: allthatjaz Oh I did that did I? well now lets see.... who prey am I bigoted against? Who's side was I actually on when I said what I did? You have a habit of jumping to the wrong conclusions. I am less of a bigot than probably anyone else you know and I find your accusation not only insulting to the core but hugely ignorant. Bigot is reserved for someone with prejudice and someone who shows prejudice is worthy of that insult. I showed none but you read something into what I wrote simply because you already had a low opinion of me. Your a stone thrower aren't you? Go and have a word with yourself you silly, silly woman. quote: It said nothing in the Bible about burning witches but it does talk about stoning in the Koran and so it is Islamic law. For a Muslim to call it inhuman would be insulting the Prophet. http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3559985 Enough said. So you still don't understand what I was saying? otherwise you would of been able to pin point what you considered as bigotry. Ok lets dissect this just so people like tazzygirl don't get all confused and jump to some very wrong conclusions. I said 'It says nothing in the Bible about burning witches (and I was wrong about that and rightfully owned up to being wrong). What did I mean when I said that? I meant that if the bible says nothing about stoning people to death then why would Christians stone people to death? It turns out however that the Bible does say this but as I pointed out later, we don't use Christian law to punish people. I didn't at any time say that this was right or this was wrong. I then went on to say, 'it does talk about stoning in the Koran/Qur'an and so it is Islamic law.' and what I meant by that is sharia law meaning the law spoken in their book is the law of that land. That bits simple. Again I said nothing about it being right or wrong. I finally said, 'For a Muslim to call it inhuman would be insulting the Prophet.' and I absolutely stand by this because when a man or woman is found guilty of a crime and the punishment are the direct words of the Prophet, nobody will question the punishment itself because to speak against the punishment is to speak against the Prophet and that would be deemed as disrespectful. There was no bigotry in that, just truth. If I have insulted any Christians by this post then it was not intended. I know that its highly unlikely that I will of insulted any Muslims.

ashjor911 -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/8/2011 8:57:11 AM)
Dear Starshineowned, These conversations takes a lot of times yes & I have been in many of these conversations some people say: (hey we both worship god in our way & you have believes & I do to let’s just leave it there & come back to business). could save the 45 min trip to less more i hope PS: I love the ieda of you counting the time since he is out......... it make me more than jealous

tazzygirl -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/8/2011 10:59:07 AM)
Trying to justify your bigotry after the fact doesnt make you look any better. quote: 2- Will answer this question with a question like why does the thief go to jail … it’s the law yes? Why do they get stoned …? It’s just the law & they committed a sin. In 1400 or so in Europe the witches has to be burned why?? It was law….!! quote: It said nothing in the Bible about burning witches but it does talk about stoning in the Koran and so it is Islamic law. For a Muslim to call it inhuman would be insulting the Prophet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_trials_in_the_Early_Modern_period Witches were burned in Europe around the 1400's... the reasons, chief among many, was religious... Asjor said nothing about the Bible or the Koran... you brought those up. He made his claim, which is a valid claim... and you tried to repudiate that with erroneous information. After being shown you were wrong, you then decide you were going to school me on your inability to be a religious bigot because you have family ties to both sides. Then this, your latest attempt... its sad.. really. quote: What did I mean when I said that? I meant that if the bible says nothing about stoning people to death then why would Christians stone people to death? You assumed something you didnt know the truth about, merely "believed"... quote: It turns out however that the Bible does say this but as I pointed out later, we don't use Christian law to punish people. Stoning, or lapidation, is a form of capital punishment whereby a group throws stones at a person until the person dies. No individual among the group can be identified as the one who kills the subject. This is in contrast to the case of a judicial executioner. Stoning is slower than other forms of execution, and hence is a form of execution by torture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning We dont use capital punishment in the US? Since when? Again the bigotry you use is that we, in the US, are better than those who follow Islam... when we are really no better.

luckydawg -> RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West (2/8/2011 11:04:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ashjor911 Dear Luckydawg, West bank & east of Jerusalem always was for Jordan, Gaza was & always will be as Palestinian Land, Golan Heights was & always will be a Syrian Land, In 1948 these Lands were free except for Gaza it was under the England occupation, They did not setup a state of Palestine on the Land that was never from Palestine that is true simply because (you cannot build a house on Land that you do not own). In 1976 Israel invaded these free lands & waited there to complete the real state of Israel (from al Fourat to the Neil). That is History not me saying that at all that what happened, Israel was founded on a land that was occupied by the English, (Belfor promise). & before that Palestine was under the Turkish occupation. After 1967 Jordan gave up west bank & east of Jerusalem for the Palestinian case, In my way of thinking that they cannot afford to free that Land. We don’t hate Jews or their religion. They were people among us living & eating with us. We hate the Israelis & there is huge different between Jews & Israelis. & I did not say that 9-11 was done by Jews, but it can be made by Moss ad right? Even that your post had some disrespect in it, I did replay to you with much respect to you & your believes you are older than me & I respect who are older than me. I am chatting in my second language & learning the third I still wish you a long life full of happiness & joy. Jordan did not give up the west bank in 67. They joined in war against Israel and lost it. In 48 it was invaded and taken milllitarily by Jordan, and they did not allow a Palestinian state to be set up. thats just a fact. Also Gaza was invaded by Egypt in 48, and they refused to allow your people to set up a state. The fact is Ashor, that Palestinains had everything they say they want, and they didn't set up a state, they chose war. An if you think the Mossad/ Israelis did 911, you are extremely ignorant.

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