RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (Full Version)

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mnottertail -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/7/2011 7:12:20 AM)

I believe that his most defining moment is that he is no more brain dead now, than when he was president. But he took alotta people with him, by god.




DomKen -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/7/2011 9:30:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I believe that Star Wars was the straw that ultimately broke the Soviet Unions back.

You are completely correct. Not only did it break the Soviets, that was what it was designed to do...it was never intended to actually produce a viable weapons system.


That is exceptionally unlikely. The way to defeat any anti missile system was well known and understood by the Soviets, overwhelm the interception capability. It cost very little to add decoys to MIRV's.




EternalHoH -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/7/2011 11:53:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


In spite of your highly partisan spin MM, his policies made him one of the most popular president we have ever had.




Sure he was popular!  We began living on a 30-year credit binge under him!  Who didn't like it that they had more 'stuff' by the time he left office?

[image]http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/inflation.gif[/image]


"Popular" among the people doesn't make him "right" or "responsible".  Being popular when not being right is how we have Obama and Palin in play today.


P.S. this whole thread was stupid from the beginning.




slvemike4u -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/7/2011 2:52:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Can anybody play?

Another ten of Reagan's finest moments:

Handing the Republican party over to the religious right, to do with as they pleased
Wasting billions on having military engineers try to execute a bunch of half baked ideas cooked up by three science fiction writers
"Ketchup is a vegetable"
His other half fucking Frank Sinatra behind his back
Giving Saddam Insane all of those WMDs and turning a blind eye when he used them on the Kurds rather than the Iranians
The Miracle of the monster deficit
Blaming everything that went wrong in the country for eight years on Carter
Tax cuts
Paying more attention to his wife's astrologer than to his advisors
Seriously upsetting Brooooooooce Springsteen by misusing one of his songs as propaganda for the sort of thing Brooooooce was taking the piss about
The total failure of effort to confront the epidemic of Aids......a tragic example of govermental indifference.




Moonhead -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/7/2011 3:02:56 PM)

Very true. I'm sure that dovetailed neatly with the "handing the Republicans over to the moral majority" thing, as well.




Sanity -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/7/2011 9:22:11 PM)


What Reagan did (video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTiEeDYzneE&feature=player_embedded




Sanity -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/7/2011 9:28:13 PM)

Regarding Reagan:
quote:

Underlying all was a deep and natural skepticism. That, in a way, is why he was conservative. "If men were angels." They are not, so we must limit the governmental power they might wield. But his skepticism didn't leave him down. It left him laughing at the human condition, and at himself. Jim Baker, his first and great chief of staff, and his friend, remembered the other day the atmosphere of merriness around Reagan, the constant flow of humor.


But there was often a genial blackness to it, a mordant edge. In a classic Reagan joke, a man says sympathetically to his friend, "I'm so sorry your wife ran away with the gardener." The guy answers, "It's OK, I was going to fire him anyway." Or: As winter began, the young teacher sought to impart to her third-graders the importance of dressing warmly. She told the heart-rending story of her little brother, a fun-loving boy who went out with his sled and stayed out too long, caught a cold, then pneumonia, and days later died. There was dead silence in the schoolroom as they took it in. She knew she'd gotten through. Then a voice came from the back: "Where's the sled?"




housesub4you -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/8/2011 4:52:03 AM)

Of course than there is the stuff Conservatives tend to forget

1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser. As governor of California, Reagan “signed into law the largest tax increase in the history of any state up till then.” Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled. As president, Reagan “raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,” including four times in just two years. As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan “a dear friend,” told NPR, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration — I was there.” “Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,” said historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan’s memoir. Reagan the anti-tax zealot is “false mythology,” Brinkley said.

2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.
During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly $3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years of the century had done altogether.” Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and government revenue dropped off precipitously. Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut. Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit under control.

3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts. Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get back down to its previous level. Meanwhile, income inequality exploded. Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980′s did little help them. “Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30 percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top have tripled or quadrupled,” the New York Times’ David Leonhardt noted.

4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously. Reagan promised “to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control the runaway growth of federal spending,” but federal spending “ballooned” under Reagan. He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into the future. He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest — the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees. He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.

5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose. As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to liberalize the state’s abortion laws that “resulted in more than a million abortions.” When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office, he “never seriously pursued” curbing choice.

6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.” He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of nuclear weapons.” “This vision stemmed from the president’s belief that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war — and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,” the Washington Monthly noted. And Reagan’s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union, but “also to put the United States in a stronger position from which to establish effective arms control” for the the entire world — a vision acted out by Regean’s vice president, George H.W. Bush, when he became president.

7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives.

8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran. Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the time, in exchange for American hostages. Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-Communist rebels in Nicaragua — something Congress had already prohibited the administration from doing. When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to be know, was an enormous political scandal that forced several senior administration officials to resign.

9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act. which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all American trade with the country. Reagan’s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate. Reagan responded by saying “I deeply regret that Congress has seen fit to override my veto,” saying that the law “will not solve the serious problems that plague that country.”

10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden.
Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.
Conservatives seem to be in such denial about the less flattering aspects of Reagan; it sometimes appears as if they genuinely don’t know the truth of his legacy.




Moonhead -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/8/2011 5:02:10 AM)

Of course they don't: if they knew the truth about his legacy, would they still be giving his corpse rim jobs like Sanity's OP?




pahunkboy -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/8/2011 11:35:36 AM)

He also took his orders from the Crown- just like Maggie Thatcher did. 




Moonhead -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/9/2011 4:38:36 AM)

This record seems to be skipping. Perhaps it's time to buy a new copy?




pahunkboy -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/9/2011 7:14:18 AM)

So then you support a National Reagan Day?   A holiday where everything closes?

Wouldn't that pay homage to the crown?




Moonhead -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/9/2011 7:18:11 AM)

Given that Reagan spent most of his career in office with Thatcher kneeling in front of him licking her lips as he unzipped his flies, no I don't think that would pay homage to the crown at all.




pahunkboy -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/9/2011 7:50:39 AM)

Oh Pulease!   Not with the City of London-  getting filthy rich.

Who do you think calls the shots?

Big money does.




Moonhead -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/9/2011 7:55:19 AM)

So the city of London is benefiting from providing your country with cannon fodder for Iraq how, precisely?

What good has the huge loan Bush took out from the bank of England in 2008 done us? How is that preferable to it being ploughed into our own economy?

(Here's a friendly hint: don't talk such complete and utter shit if you expect to have anything you say taken seriously.)




DomYngBlk -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/9/2011 8:14:09 AM)

Think history will show that lech walesa and JP 2nd had more to do with "bringing down those walls" than Ronald Reagan...




Moonhead -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/9/2011 8:16:37 AM)

Definitely, but that's a sane and considered analysis of the situation, and so unlikely to appeal to Reaganites...




DomYngBlk -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/9/2011 8:22:55 AM)

Our military industrial complex along with Reagan/Bush hated what was happening in Poland since it was the chink in the armour. The aforementioned along with the russian versions of the same were all happy playing the game of lets build the biggest weapons using taxpayer money to line our pockets.......That buildup and USSR's had nothing to do with global conflict or resolution. It was all bout the bennie's




pahunkboy -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/9/2011 8:50:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So the city of London is benefiting from providing your country with cannon fodder for Iraq how, precisely?

What good has the huge loan Bush took out from the bank of England in 2008 done us? How is that preferable to it being ploughed into our own economy?

(Here's a friendly hint: don't talk such complete and utter shit if you expect to have anything you say taken seriously.)



The elite 1% get richer.   How is this not the City of London.  And why would we even need money from the Bank of England?

You are an apologist for the status quo.




Moonhead -> RE: Reagan's 100th birthday: 10 defining moments (2/9/2011 9:09:45 AM)

Either that or you don't know what you're talking about. You should try looking at a few news sites other than prison planet once in a while.




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