RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin

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RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/10/2011 2:38:44 PM

LaTigresse

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FR......

For every white knight there is more than one damsel in distress. Most damsels relish their roles.

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RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/10/2011 8:40:12 PM

MercTech

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Hmmm, and I always thought it was just hard to tell the difference in a genuine distressed damsel and a "professional victim" masquerading as one.

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RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/10/2011 9:43:07 PM

strongonedm

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If she has the freedom to choose new lovers and then, on her own, go back to his "control" and abuse -- who is in control here really?

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RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/11/2011 2:56:01 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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I wonder how Dexter would deal with this?

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RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/11/2011 6:01:12 AM

Kana

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"So there's this girl.

She's 20 and her Master is 37. They're engaged. She wears a collar that she can't remove. They have a 24/7 rela"

Right about here is when I stuck my fingers in my ears, stuck my tongue out and started spinning on my heel with elbows extended akimbo while making "Lalalalalalalalalalalala" sounds, aiming for maximum dizziness before I was forced to return to the mundane world.

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RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/11/2011 6:15:59 AM

strangedesire

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

"So there's this girl.

She's 20 and her Master is 37. They're engaged. She wears a collar that she can't remove. They have a 24/7 rela"

Right about here is when I stuck my fingers in my ears, stuck my tongue out and started spinning on my heel with elbows extended akimbo while making "Lalalalalalalalalalalala" sounds, aiming for maximum dizziness before I was forced to return to the mundane world.

I know the feeling.

If this man isn't crazyabusive, he's a moron.

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RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/11/2011 11:37:24 AM

crazyml

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

The man may have some issues, and the woman definitely does.

Steer clear from both of them or else you'll be lied about to all and sundry.

'bout nails it.

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RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/11/2011 2:30:01 PM

LadyRian

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I also think that it would be a good idea to step away from this.

I don't think anyone knows the real truth of this situation except for the two of them, and maybe there's a lot of missing information between them as well.

Getting involved too deeply here may be something you might wish you hadn't done, if you did it.

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RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/11/2011 5:15:13 PM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: strangedesire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

"So there's this girl.

She's 20 and her Master is 37. They're engaged. She wears a collar that she can't remove. They have a 24/7 rela"

Right about here is when I stuck my fingers in my ears, stuck my tongue out and started spinning on my heel with elbows extended akimbo while making "Lalalalalalalalalalalala" sounds, aiming for maximum dizziness before I was forced to return to the mundane world.

I know the feeling.

If this man isn't crazyabusive, he's a moron.

Nope. You know little about the relationship except what she tells you. And she's a liar. I'm seeing you getting drawn into this crap, and just figuring out what's going on will be a full time job.

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RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/11/2011 5:22:28 PM

sirsholly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: strangedesire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

"So there's this girl.

She's 20 and her Master is 37. They're engaged. She wears a collar that she can't remove. They have a 24/7 rela"

Right about here is when I stuck my fingers in my ears, stuck my tongue out and started spinning on my heel with elbows extended akimbo while making "Lalalalalalalalalalalala" sounds, aiming for maximum dizziness before I was forced to return to the mundane world.

I know the feeling.

If this man isn't crazyabusive, he's a moron.

Nope. You know little about the relationship except what she tells you. And she's a liar. I'm seeing you getting drawn into this crap, and just figuring out what's going on will be a full time job.

my question is why the OP is allowing herself to be drawn in?

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RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/11/2011 5:30:40 PM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: strangedesire
I know the feeling.

If this man isn't crazyabusive, he's a moron.

I thought you had said that you never met him?

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RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/11/2011 5:39:03 PM

catize

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quote:

I thought you had said that you never met him?

That's the trouble with so much drama, the folks who get sucked in can't remember anything either!!!

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RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/12/2011 1:47:18 PM

strangedesire

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Nope. You know little about the relationship except what she tells you. And she's a liar. I'm seeing you getting drawn into this crap, and just figuring out what's going on will be a full time job.

I've been pulling back, but she's a friend. I think that I can keep her as an acquaintance and a part of my life without getting drawn into the whirlwind of her relationship. This is a luxury that I have - the "I love him/I hate him" stuff has mostly come through male friends.

I like the girl, and I don't think that she's outright lied to anyone. Increasingly, I'm reading her as something closer to borderline personality: her feelings for the men she's close to tend to be very strong, very polar, and very subject to change. The interesting thing about this situation on the whole is that I don't think that she's outright lying to anyone. She engages in some fairly edgy stuff, stuff that I would clearly think of as abuse if she hadn't outright consented to it. On the other hand, with clear and obvious consent, I'd be very hesitant to class it as abuse. I'm not going to be the one who draws the line, to say that beyond X point, it's abuse even if she wants it.

That said, she's in a relationship without safewords, a relationship where she can't give and take away consent easily. My impression with her has always been that she's not good at consent, and that she has a tendency to force other people to make choices for her and then judge them after the fact. I personally will not play with this girl unless she sets clear limits and safewords, and will not do anything to her without explicit consent. Getting consent from her is like pulling teeth, too. I don't play with her often because the ten-minute "no really, will it be okay if I spank you, just tell me yes or no" dance is too frustrating.

It takes a particular kind of person to make TPE work, and she is not that kind of person. She doesn't communicate well enough. And if he doesn't realize that...well, he's almost had the police on his doorstep a few times because of things that she said to vanilla friends.

I know pretty clearly what I need to do in her specific case. Create emotional distance, mostly, because even if something is going on I can't fix it. The issues it raises are interesting to me, in general, but I will probably move my contributions to another thread.

Thank you, everyone.

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RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/12/2011 2:39:09 PM

MasterSlaveLA

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quote:

ORIGINAL: strangedesire
She engages in some fairly edgy stuff, stuff that I would clearly think of as abuse if she hadn't outright consented to it.

So, if she's into "edgy stuff" and has "outright consented", then nothing that's going on between her and her Master is "abuse".

quote:

On the other hand, with clear and obvious consent, I'd be very hesitant to class it as abuse.

Except that's exactly what you did in your OP, and elsewhere in this thread.

quote:

I'm not going to be the one who draws the line, to say that beyond X point, it's abuse even if she wants it.

Except that you have been "the one" who's drawn the line and deemed it was "abuse"... repeatedly in this thread.

quote:

That said, she's in a relationship without safewords, a relationship where she can't give and take away consent easily.

So??? You may not roll this way, but others do.

quote:

My impression with her has always been that she's not good at consent...

She's with her Master... has come back to her Master... has agreed to marry her Master -- seems she's perfectly "good" at "giving consent".

quote:

I personally will not play with this girl unless she sets clear limits and safewords, and will not do anything to her without explicit consent. Getting consent from her is like pulling teeth, too. I don't play with her often because the ten-minute "no really, will it be okay if I spank you, just tell me yes or no" dance is too frustrating.

This is a difference between "play" and "ownership". Her relationship with her Master is likely one of consensual non-consent, and was established early on. You're a playmate, not her owner. Big difference.

quote:

It takes a particular kind of person to make TPE work, and she is not that kind of person. She doesn't communicate well enough. And if he doesn't realize that...well, he's almost had the police on his doorstep a few times because of things that she said to vanilla friends.

Lots of assumptions being made here, which I doubt are valid.

quote:

I know pretty clearly what I need to do in her specific case. Create emotional distance, mostly, because even if something is going on I can't fix it.

I'd personally suggest emotional and physical distance... i.e., take a vacation from each other and let them get married, fight, break-up, reunite, or whatever it is they do. Time is the best yardstick here. Your call, but I think everyone involved would be best served if you and yours stepped completely out of the picture for a while. You may view things as needing to be "fixed", but they may not... not really, anyway.

Good Luck.

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