Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

BDSM, Abuse, and Spin


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> BDSM, Abuse, and Spin Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 12:22:00 PM   
strangedesire


Posts: 360
Joined: 12/23/2008
Status: offline
So there's this girl.

She's 20 and her Master is 37. They're engaged. She wears a collar that she can't remove. They have a 24/7 relationship - no safewords, pretty much no limits. She lives with him in a house that they "rent" from a relative of hers. The relative only charges them taxes and utilities, and he pays all of it. He pays for her car insurance and her cell phone as well. Her mother was apparently abusive enough that moving back home isn't an option for her.

Their relationship is rocky, and my impression is that it's always been somewhat rocky. They have an open relationship, but he often seems displeased with her male partners. Me and my Kitten have played with her as well, and I believe he knows this, but doesn't seem bothered by it. I've never met him.

She was involved with an open-minded vanilla friend of mine for quite a while, and still speaks to him often. The stories he heard from her were clearly tripping into outright abuse. Her Master would lock her in a closet for days at a time. After a fight, he marked her so badly that she didn't go to school the next day. He broke things of hers when angry. He threatened suicide when she told him she was thinking about leaving him.

Kitten, much later, heard a slightly different story from her. She talked to Kitten about the way he'd hold her after play, and the way he seemed to be able to see her breaking point and stop right before she hit it. He'd locked her in a closet once, overnight, with a bucket and a blanket to sleep with. She skips classes often, and any mark bad enough to keep her home would have been visible a few days later.

We shrugged it off. She likes to tell people what they want to hear, and this male friend had thought her Master was trouble from the start. (And he was in love with her for quite a while - he had plenty of reasons to want her single.) He's very open-minded about kink, but something like "I hated it but I didn't tell him to stop because deep down I wanted it" sound very different to practicing sadomasochists. We assumed that she was twisting the truth a bit, perhaps unconsciously, and he was reinforcing it by responding with lots of sympathy and emotional support.

Fast forward a few months. The relationship is still rocky. She's recently become involved with another male friend of mine, and her Master is so upset to see her spending her time with another man that he leaves her. (Within a day, he's back, with gifts.) I'm in fairly regular contact with her, and hear about a few nasty things that he said to her. I provide sympathy.

At roughly the same time, she talks to her new lover. He hears about a nasty beating, and her staying home from school to hide the marks. (I saw her less than a week later. She had mild-to-moderate bruises on her back, but nothing visible under clothes. She wouldn't talk about the bruises, though.) She took him to her house and showed him the place that her Master locks her into these days. It's a small space between the basement proper and the bulkhead leading down to it. He sees snowdrifts inside it. I've never seen her house, although she's spent time at mine.

They talk, and she admits that her primary relationship is unhealthy.

Kitten and I are invited to crash in their hotel room one night at an upcoming fetish event. On facebook, she posts that she's just booked their wedding venue.

I don't know what to think. She's a masochist who likes serious humiliation, and wants a relationship where she doesn't have to take responsibility for herself. She doesn't have a safeword, so even if she really, truly, for serious didn't want something, she would have no way to stop it, and she's completely financially dependent on him. The things she does with him could be horribly abusive - or they could be completely consensual.

The difference is in the way she tells her story. It's spin.

I recognize that even if she is being abused, there isn't much I can do about it. I'm at a loss, though. Do I support her in staying with him even though they fight? Do I encourage her to leave him? Do I criticize her for playing things up to get sympathy from the men in her life, or do I give her the emotional support that she wants and them some?

The relationship is broken, and I don't doubt that. But I can't tell if it's the kind of broken that she can work through, or the kind of broken where I ought to be terrified that she lives alone with a temperamental sadist into edge play in a house that has no neighbors within screaming distance.

I'm not looking for solutions, because I don't think there are any. I do intend to talk to her directly about this fairly soon, so I can at least know where she thinks she stands.

Any thoughts? Advice? General feelings?

_____________________________

On that other site as Exegesis.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 12:34:42 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
My general answer to this is that I don't have such people as friends. If I don't think someone is capable of taking care of themselves and, in general, making their own way through the world reasonably successfully then they're going to be nothing but a drag on me and my life. Why would they be my friend? Why would I have anything to do with them whatsoever?

This girl has made her choices. They may or may not turn out well for her. If you think they're going to turn out poorly, why are you standing around in the blast zone waiting to become a part of the collateral damage?

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to strangedesire)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 12:45:14 PM   
darkenchantment


Posts: 39
Joined: 10/21/2005
Status: offline
My advice would be - stay well out of this! You will never do right for doing wrong, and if you did counsel her into leaving the present state of affairs, I fear she would rapidly be into something just as bad, and probably blaming you for it. My opinion would be that she needs a good psychiatrist and a few years of intensive psychotherapy to come to some understanding of what is driving her self destructive behaviours. Sad, but some come to bdsm not from informed desire, but from unconscious destructive forces.

_____________________________

There is no way to peace and happiness
Peace and happiness is the way.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 12:52:30 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
I am sorry but this almost sounds like a "white knight" situation with you and your partner riding to the rescue. There are people inside and outside of D/s who always seem to need rescuing and from what I have seen, until they get counseling to understand their own part in being someone's victim, they tend to end up either resenting the KNIGHT or they end up bored because the crises that shape their lives are gone.

My advice? Like those above Me so far, stay away.

(in reply to strangedesire)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 12:53:09 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
My advice is this is too much drama for you to get involved with.

She chose him and now she chooses to marry him. End of story.

(in reply to darkenchantment)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 1:02:05 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
Wow... So she spins stories... she says things about so and so and you think she isn't spinning stories about you? To him... to one lover or another... to family? I would be a friend to her in the sense that I would very frankly state that she needed professional help and that until she could stop spinning stories, there would be no play and most likely no contact. She is not only a danger to herself, but to anyone... ANYONE she is involved with.

You accept the spinner of stories all in the name of friendship or concern and you will become a part of the drama/insanity at some point. Your choice is to make a choice that helps you... and let her decide to continue, get help or whatever on her own. It is clear she doesn't want to stop the drama because there are options out there and she isn't taking them and she continues it.

I would pass.


_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 1:29:23 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
The man may have some issues, and the woman definitely does.

Steer clear from both of them or else you'll be lied about to all and sundry.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 1:40:17 PM   
subtlebutterfly


Posts: 2230
Joined: 6/15/2008
From: Not your hood
Status: offline
To me, it sounds like she's a pathological liar with multiple versions of every event. I'd avoid her and her master at any point as there're clearly some major issues that seem to be on both ends of the relationship.

_____________________________

~Ms. Awesomeness to YOU!~

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 1:46:34 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: strangedesire

So there's this girl... She's 20 and her Master is 37.


So what... many have a large age gap -- some prefer it, others don't.  A non-issue.

quote:


They're engaged.


Good for them... many here would like to be engaged/married as well.

quote:


She wears a collar that she can't remove.


So what... many do.

quote:


They have a 24/7 relationship - no safewords, pretty much no limits.


So what... many share this type of relationship -- Total Power Exchange.

quote:


She lives with him in a house that they "rent" from a relative of hers. The relative only charges them taxes and utilities, and he pays all of it. He pays for her car insurance and her cell phone as well.


Good for them... he saves money and can cover her expenses.

quote:


Their relationship is rocky, and my impression is that it's always been somewhat rocky.


That's your impression... you don't live with them, and can't truly know thier relationship.

quote:

They have an open relationship... Me and my Kitten have played with her as well, and I believe he knows this, but doesn't seem bothered by it.


Yeah... and???  Why should he be "bothered" if they have an "open relationship"???

quote:


I've never met him.


And yet... you seem quite quick to judge him?!!

quote:


She was involved with an open-minded vanilla friend of mine for quite a while, and still speaks to him often. The stories he heard from her were clearly tripping into outright abuse.


So what???  Most 'nillas would consider what YOU do as "abuse".  This is subjective.  One person's "abuse" is another person's "dream".

quote:


Her Master would lock her in a closet for days at a time. After a fight, he marked her so badly that she didn't go to school the next day. He broke things of hers when angry. He threatened suicide when she told him she was thinking about leaving him.


She picked him and she has two feet... which she can use anytime to leave, should she choose to do so.

quote:


Kitten, much later, heard a slightly different story from her. She talked to Kitten about the way he'd hold her after play, and the way he seemed to be able to see her breaking point and stop right before she hit it. He'd locked her in a closet once, overnight, with a bucket and a blanket to sleep with. She skips classes often, and any mark bad enough to keep her home would have been visible a few days later.


Soooooooo... it would appear the above statement negates the earlier one, yes???

quote:


We shrugged it off.


Good... it's not your relationship -- it's theirs.

quote:


She likes to tell people what they want to hear, and this male friend had thought her Master was trouble from the start. (And he was in love with her for quite a while - he had plenty of reasons to want her single.) He's very open-minded about kink, but something like "I hated it but I didn't tell him to stop because deep down I wanted it" sound very different to practicing sadomasochists. We assumed that she was twisting the truth a bit, perhaps unconsciously, and he was reinforcing it by responding with lots of sympathy and emotional support.


The above bolded part should be evidence enough that nothing your "friend" says can be taken with any real legitimacy, as he is beyond biased.

quote:


Fast forward a few months. The relationship is still rocky. She's recently become involved with another male friend of mine, and her Master is so upset to see her spending her time with another man that he leaves her. (Within a day, he's back, with gifts.) I'm in fairly regular contact with her, and hear about a few nasty things that he said to her. I provide sympathy.


Blah... blah... blah... all people have ups and downs in their relationships.  Some up more than down, some down more than up, some break-up, some stay together, some break-up and get back together.  Nothing shocking here.

quote:


At roughly the same time, she talks to her new lover. He hears about a nasty beating, and her staying home from school to hide the marks. (I saw her less than a week later. She had mild-to-moderate bruises on her back, but nothing visible under clothes. She wouldn't talk about the bruises, though.) She took him to her house and showed him the place that her Master locks her into these days. It's a small space between the basement proper and the bulkhead leading down to it. He sees snowdrifts inside it. I've never seen her house, although she's spent time at mine.


Two things... (1) What she does, via mutual consent, with "her Master" is their business, and (2) she may very well be a drama whore... who knows?

quote:


I don't know what to think... She's a masochist who likes serious humiliation, and wants a relationship where she doesn't have to take responsibility for herself.


Ummm... didn't you just answer your own question?!!

quote:


The things she does with him could be horribly abusive - or they could be completely consensual.


Given the prior quote, it's likely consensual.

quote:


The difference is in the way she tells her story. It's spin.


Or drama.

quote:


Do I support her in staying with him even though they fight? Do I encourage her to leave him? Do I criticize her for playing things up to get sympathy from the men in her life, or do I give her the emotional support that she wants and them some?


If she reaches out for help, and you want to help, then do so.  Again, some just like drama.  If she wants to bitch about him, then I wouldn't listen. Tell her, "You picked him... either make it work, or leave... but quit bitching about your own choices."  If she wants to leave him and needs a temporary place to crash, then help of you so choose. Otherwise, stay out of it.

quote:


The relationship is broken, and I don't doubt that.


It's "boken" according you, and you should very much "doubt that" for two simple reasons... (1) by your own admission, you've never met him, and (2) you've only heard one side of the story.

quote:


Any thoughts? Advice? General feelings?


Yes... stay the hell out of other people's relationships.  In truth, you're coming off here much like your "friend"... that you'd like her for yourself as well, and have veiled it behind all this supposed "concern" for her.  Sorry, but that's how this is coming off.

Good Luck.



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to strangedesire)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 2:04:48 PM   
Palliata


Posts: 371
Joined: 8/9/2010
Status: offline
Not much to add, but I'll reinforce what everyone else is saying:

1. This isn't your problem. Stick not thy nose into the business of others.
2. You don't, and never will, fully understand the situation, so even if you make it your problem you are guaranteed to make serious missteps.
3. Thwarting someone else's choices for themselves, even if they make bad choices, only ends badly for you, and is in my judgment opposed to the ideals of BDSM.

In the end, no good comes of involving yourself in other people's relationships under the best of circumstances. Doing it when the person you're trying to help is clearly a liar and may conceivably be making things up entirely is in no way the best of circumstances. Don't give into the temptation.

EDIT: Grammar fail.

< Message edited by Palliata -- 2/8/2011 2:06:30 PM >


_____________________________

I speak not of The Way, but only My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

I'm male. I know it sounds female. Work with me.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 2:12:59 PM   
strangedesire


Posts: 360
Joined: 12/23/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I am sorry but this almost sounds like a "white knight" situation with you and your partner riding to the rescue.



This is closer to the truth than I might like. I don't have the resources to "rescue" her, even if I wanted to, but I have enough white knight in me that it's hard to keep emotional distance when someone puts up SAVE ME smoke signals. Kitten is the same way. We both know that the white knight thing never really works out, though.

I know that I can't fix this, but she's a sweet girl. I just hope that if things are as bad as she lets her boys believe, she gets out of there without getting hurt too badly.

Thanks, everyone. Not what I wanted to hear, of course, but you're right nonetheless. This friendship could use a little more distance.


_____________________________

On that other site as Exegesis.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 2:15:11 PM   
MaxsGirl


Posts: 355
Joined: 12/2/2010
From: The Arctic Circle
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Wow... So she spins stories... she says things about so and so and you think she isn't spinning stories about you? To him... to one lover or another... to family? I would be a friend to her in the sense that I would very frankly state that she needed professional help and that until she could stop spinning stories, there would be no play and most likely no contact. She is not only a danger to herself, but to anyone... ANYONE she is involved with.

You accept the spinner of stories all in the name of friendship or concern and you will become a part of the drama/insanity at some point. Your choice is to make a choice that helps you... and let her decide to continue, get help or whatever on her own. It is clear she doesn't want to stop the drama because there are options out there and she isn't taking them and she continues it.

I would pass.



Bingo.  This girl needs to decide her future for herself.  She's young enough that she might outgrow both her storytelling and her current owner.  If I were you I might offer her my future support should both those conditions be met, but in the meantime I would step away and find healthier play partners.

quote:

Yes... stay the hell out of other people's relationships.  In truth, you're coming off here much like your "friend"... that you'd like her for yourself as well, and have veiled it behind all this supposed "concern" for her.  Sorry, but that's how this is coming off.


I'm pretty sure you're the only one here who thinks this.


_____________________________

Property of rubbrdsir

Collared Fox and
Future Thru-Hiker!

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 2:23:24 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

To me, it sounds like she's a pathological liar with multiple versions of every event. I'd avoid her and her master at any point as there're clearly some major issues that seem to be on both ends of the relationship.


Supporting her lying is telling her it's ok to continue. At 20, she has plenty of time to fix that and live an authentic life. Supporting lying just gets more lying. Don't enable her.

_____________________________



My fave Thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2626198/mpage_1/tm.htm

One time "Phallus Expert Extraordinaire"

(in reply to subtlebutterfly)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 3:19:48 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaxsGirl

quote:

Yes... stay the hell out of other people's relationships.  In truth, you're coming off here much like your "friend"... that you'd like her for yourself as well, and have veiled it behind all this supposed "concern" for her.  Sorry, but that's how this is coming off.


I'm pretty sure you're the only one here who thinks this.



That's how she's coming off to me, as she's made many of the same allegations as her "friend" (who wants her for himself), and yet... she's never met this girl's Master.  Worse, she's beyond involved in another couple's relationship.  That's simply not logical.... and in my experience, implies an interest beyond mere concern, especially since she's "played" with this girl.  The "White Knight" doesn't generally dash to free the damsel from the tower without riding off with her.  Your mileage may vary.




< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 2/8/2011 3:39:54 PM >


_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to MaxsGirl)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 3:36:31 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
There is a time when someone may need to step into another persons relationship, but I wouldn't recommend it being someone that was involved with them kink-wise, sexually or that might have a motive other than seeing to the safety of someone. Working in the field I did, we sometimes had to step in, but it wasn't on a personal level most of the time. Even then, unless a law was broken, reported and in the courts, we had little that we could do. You have to wait until someone wants help or you are wasting your energy.

Someone who lies is dangerous in some situations. You cannot tell what is what and are left confused. Anytime you are confused... watch out... you may not be getting the real story or all of it.

If you are concerned about someone you can speak to them. If they are straight up, cool, if they are not.. run... run fast... because being involved could put you in a position where one of the parties, where both are playing the game, could get violent with you! If you are really concerned, speak to professionals yourself. But you darn well better be sure of your facts because you could ruin lives by making reports.

I don't buy the dependent issue. I've been in all sorts of situations and yet, if I wanted out, I found a way. This young lady has a relative that accepts cheaper rent than anywhere else. All she would need is even a minimum wage job and there are still some around. A restraining order with a residency order all in one shot is all that would be needed other than new locks and being careful. Until she is ready to leave or be left, nothing will matter other than what she wants to do.

In this situation, I think she wants what she is involved in. There are some attention seekers that will pit dominants against one another by doing something very similar. Don't be that dominant. lol


_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!


(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 4:21:53 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
It's broken in the sense that she seems to get what she wants out if it in twisted and convoluted ways...but in ways she feels are consistent enough to warrant the wedding.

Delving into any more of the details would make my head hurt.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 4:23:52 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The "White Knight" doesn't generally dash to free the damsel from the tower without riding off with her.  Your mileage may vary.

Interesting angle. Perfectly worded, too.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 4:33:03 PM   
subangi


Posts: 544
Joined: 5/11/2008
Status: offline
Stop feeding into the frenzy. 

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 5:02:02 PM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline
When someone says "no safe words and no limits" that either means:

1. They lied about safe words (Stop is a safe word.)
2. They lied about no limits (Safe words is what lets a dominant legally have no limits)
3. They are engaged in a criminal, abusive relationship.

By law, there is no legal way to give up your right to say no, Not even if you are declared insane. People however LOVE to brag. "I am so hard core' "I can take anything", "I have no limits", "I can take more pain than anyone else" "I don't use safe words, because I don't care what my dominant does. etc. etc. All bull. If you truly have no safe words and no limits, then the dominant could cut off the fingers of the submissive - oh, little child said no limits but they had a limit of no mainimg!. People brag, but don't fall for their crap. This is real life we are talking about, not a fantasy.

The relationship as described, sounds like #3. It is not safe, not sane, and not consensual. The participants are not aware of the risks. Of course, I am responding to a third party description. It is quite likely that the relationship has safe words or limits, but the poster, not being in the relationship, is not aware of it.

(The only "Total Power Exchange" couple I know negotiated limits clearly and in writing AND they use a safe word. The dominant still makes ALL the decisions - from what they wear, to what they eat, to what they read.)

(in reply to subangi)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: BDSM, Abuse, and Spin - 2/8/2011 5:09:40 PM   
strangedesire


Posts: 360
Joined: 12/23/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

That's how she's coming off to me, as she's made many of the same allegations as her "friend" (who wants her for himself), and yet... she's never met this girl's Master.  Worse, she's beyond involved in another couple's relationship.  That's simply not logical.... and in my experience, implies an interest beyond mere concern, especially since she's "played" with this girl.  The "White Knight" doesn't generally dash to free the damsel from the tower without riding off with her.  Your mileage may vary.



You are, of course, entitled to your opinions. I'm not romantically interested in the girl, and if I never had the opportunity to interact with her on a sadistic or sadomasochistic level again, I can't say that I'd be terribly upset. I play casually on a regular basis, and tend to see it as an activity not much more intimate than going to a movie. She was craving pain and her Master was busy. Why would I say no?

I didn't respond to your earlier post because it contained a degree of vitriol (and represented an investment of time) that suggests to me that you are taking it rather more personally than seems warranted. I won't speculate on why. I'll simply note that yes, consensual TPE happens, and yes, sometimes older men pick up young emotionally vulnerable girls and support them financially in the context of 24/7 BDSM and everything turns out OK. However, a collar and a slave contract don't insure one against abuse. I'm familiar enough with the way abuse presents in vanilla relationships to know that "she has two feet... which she can use anytime to leave" is hardly an indication that the relationship ISN'T abusive.

These stories about her Master come from two separate men, one of whom is quite kinky but doesn't think she's relationship material. And I've tried to meet her Master, but he keeps being too tired, too busy, or otherwise unwilling to actually put himself in the same room as me. Kitten has met him and was very unimpressed - and I do trust her judgment.

Oddly enough, I'm capable of wanting to help my friends without wanting to possess them. I don't know that I can help her here, and I know well enough to restrain my impulse to dash in and try to fix things, but carrying her off would never be part of the deal.


_____________________________

On that other site as Exegesis.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> BDSM, Abuse, and Spin Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094