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Anaxagoras -> RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood (2/20/2011 9:10:37 AM)
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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
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ORIGINAL: Anaxagoras
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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
I have never defended Hamas military activities - in fact I have condemned them several times. I have no idea where you got this from - sounds to me like you made it up, much like the rest of your post.
Here you are suggesting I am a liar - I would like to ask what else have I made up? I assume nothing you can prove as you would have cynically jumped on it like you commonly do when you see a a weakness in any other argument.
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You were asked to produce evidence to back up your unqualified claim that I "defend Hamas". I am not calling you a liar yet. I note the absence of evidence thus far.
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Tweakabelle, talking to you is like talking to a wall that needs an exercise in sincerity. You said I had made things up. That means I am a liar according to your words.
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Well on this thread you actually represented Hamas in a pretty positive light as being better than Fatah "someone honest".
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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
It might be a bit more subtle than that. It's not that democracy per se is an issue - it's more that those pesky Ay-rabs have a habit of electing the wrong people. So obviously they aren't ready for democracy yet.
Look at what happened in Gaza. Those damn Palestinians went and elected someone honest (!), someone they thought might actually represent their interests instead of ours. Like, how dare they? As if anyone cared what they think! Look at all the trouble the poor Israelis had to go to just to put that mess right.
This is nothing new. On other thread I also stated that you represented Hamas and Hizbullah as pretty much being resistance fighters rather than terrorists in your early posts on this forum. However, people like Master NJ20 and others criticised that and you moderated your stance by stating you also considered what Hamas etc. do as war crimes. However, even taking that into account, you still make virtually 100% of your attacks against Israel as all the posts on Israel prove.
More dissembling. More fiction. No evidence.
Is this the best 'evidence' that you can find?
There is a world of difference between making an observation that Hamas were seen by the Gaza electorate as more honest than Fatah, (Fatah are generally seen as a by-word for corruption) and defending Hamas' policies or activities. Besides, the sentence is clearly what I suspect the voters of Gaza were thinking - not my personal thoughts.
So still no evidence nor retraction of your false claim. Pathetic.
You are unable to produce any evidence. Not a skerrig, not a whiff, not even a hint of evidence to back up your false claim. Why? Because there is no evidence to suggest I "defend Hamas" - I don't. I have condemned their war crimes, in particular the firing of missiles from Gaza into Israel many times. You know this perfectly well.
I'm afraid it is you that is "pathetic" and just trying to bluster your way out of this one. In the post I quoted, you spoke of Hamas in a positive light just a few posts back and actually brought it into the conversation on this thread. There doesn't seem to be any particular reason you do that other than to make a point that is actually pro-Hamas.
More bluster - "not a whiff" etc. of evidence. You said Hamas were more honest than Fatah, and that the Palestinians were acting in their own interests by electing Hamas. You mentioned honesty - Hamas are indeed more honest. They promised as part of their election mandate to continue conflict with Israel. You only mentioned honesty with regard to money subsequently. You say the Palestinians acted in their own interests so the question is what was more important to the Palestinians? Is it officials skimming off some of the immensely generous aid packages the Palestinians get (way more money than any other people BTW) or electing those that promise to continue conflict with Israel which led to the 2009 Gaza war? The latter is obviously the more significant issue relating to the choice Gazan's made. You endorsing that choice sounds very very much like supporting Hamas.
The contrast I made by making that point initially was how you previously criticised Israeli's for voting for Netanyahu on the other thread - that is more of your double standards.
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Any solution to the problems I have proposed has always included recognition, peace and security for Israel within its 1967 borders. I have made this point to you and others explicitly several times. To claim, as you did, the I defend Hamas or support it's military activities is totally false.
Furthermore as I have previously advised you of my position several times, I can only conclude you are being deliberately misleading. As you and I have previously agreed, that's pretty much the same thing as telling lies.
Then as you falsely demonise me, you have the audacity to call me a "hypocrite" for allegedly "demonising" Israel. Pure naked shameless HYPOCRISY.
Nothing alleged about you demonising Israel: Ms. Tweak "IsraeliWarCrimes" Abelle. The point will be illustrated below.
I also acknowledged on the other posts that you said you supported a two state solution. However, you have repeatedly made out that Israel has no real reasons to be worried and yet you then mentioned the threat from Iran. The point is as also illustrated below, that you chop and change your opinions but the one continual is your attacks on Israel.You can say in one breath that Hamas are also wrong, which I acknowledged repeatedly BTW but it seems reasonable to infer that that is only done to make you appear balanced for the one thing you continually do is demonise demonise demonise Israel, whilst offering some discreat support for Palestinian "resistance" - namely terrorism.
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So, I am now calling you a liar and a hypocrite, not hinting at it, not inferring it - I am stating it baldly: Anaxagoras you are a liar and a hypocrite. If you have any integrity, you will withdraw your baseless charges and apologise.
Didn't take you long to get to calling me a liar lol. I would like to apologise but not to you rather to others for disrupting this thread. I'll try to avoid even mentioning Israel in future.
Tweakabelle please don't expect me to run through all your old posts but I repeatedly made it clear on the previous thread that you in part defended Hamas and other hardline terrorist groups as "resistance fighters". You didn't seem to challenge the point then probably because you must have believed it yourself as you challenged a lot in those posts. Now you expect me to post up proof. Those posts are old and there are many. I'm not going to waste my entire day doing it but here are a few samples from an old thread I saved a link to with regard to another issue. However, t should be enough to prove (1) that you legitimised terrorists as resistance fighters and (2) that you really do demonise Israel.
Here is Post 87 where you go on about "war crimes", whilst saying Jews have no legal right to settle anywhere they want in Palestine. Anything to label Israel an intensely evil state while labelling Palestinian terrorist activity "rsistance". This should be enough but I have included a few extra posts below where you go on and on and on about "war crimes".
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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Further, the IDF ruthlessly suppresses any local opposition to this colonisation process. Thousands of Palestinians have been murdered by the IDF since the Occupation began in 1967. As these killings occur in defence of an illegal occupation, they too are arguably war crimes. Resistance by the local indigenous population to the occupation and theft of its land is met with accusations of 'terrorism' and dealt with through almost daily killings of Palestinians by the IDF and collective punishments (yet another war crime) ...Is it any wonder that virtually the entire world (bar the USA Australia and one or two others) regards Israel as a rogue terrorist State?
We were talking primarily about the Gaza war on this thread so the above quote particularly represents a defence of Hamas in this context: http://www.collarchat.com/m_3457940/mpage_5/tm.htm but other terror groups as well.
I said in my response to your post on that very page: "I suppose by what you call “thousands of Palestinians” “resistance" to the “occupation” of land that was previously in a state of “occupation” before would be Hamas, Hizbullah and the PLO." to which you replied with a brief message insulting me and completely ignoring the above point: "Sorry Anaxagoras, your claim that you are a higher authority on Israeli policy than the Israeli Prime Minister is simply too stupid for words. To describe it as infantile would be to over state its intellectual content. I do not propose to waste any more of my time dealing with your gibberish. Enjoy your life." I note this was where your insults started. You also told an untruth about "almost daily killings". There are targetted killings occasionally but they are militants and often in response to attacks from Gaza etc.
Here is a sample of Tweakabelle's behaviour Post 81 http://www.collarchat.com/m_3457940/mpage_5/tm.htm - note repeatedly the use of "terrorists" in inverted commas. Obviously the quotes are used to denote sarcasm, which would be ill-fitting unless a person wanted to cast doubt on Hamas being terrorists:
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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Of course, if Israel lets the 'terrorists' determine it's standards of behaviour, Israel is no better than the 'terrorists' it professes to despise. The nicest thing i can say about that is that it is pure undiluted hypocrisy. What a clear indication of the abject moral culpability of Israeli policy when the only thing separating it from war crimes convictions is a dubious legal technicality? Such a shame that a State that embodied such noble ideals upon its foundation has sunk so low.
And yet on the same thread, in response to MasterNJ20 who was critical of Hamas Tweakabelle replied regarding the Stern Gang etc. that helped found the "noble" State:
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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
Please exercise some caution about calling for the removal of "terrorists" from the scene. After all Israel was founded by terrorists wasn't it? To wit, the Stern Gang, The Hagannah and Irgun. Almost the entire world sees Israel's rhetoric about "terrorism" for precisely what it is - a subterfuge that allows it to delay and avoid a peace settlement while it increases its grip on the West Bank. Almost the entire world understands that the 'terrorism' Israel complains about is a direct result of Israeli dispossession of Palestinians from their homeland and its ongoing murderous Occupation. The few that did still hold some sympathies for Israel changed their minds after the last gruesome onslaught on Gaza. It was as near a re-enactment of the Warsaw Ghetto as i ever want to see.
Here we see a parallel drawn between the para-military groups that helped form the State of Israel and Hamas. Some of these groups were set up to actually defend Jewish people from repeated sectarian attacks prior to that time because the British were rarely willing to help as they wished to appease the neighbouring Arabs. Then you compare Gaza with the Warsaw Ghetto. This is about the ugliest most dishonest pro-Palestinianism one can get. Over 100,000 Jews died in what was pretty much a tiny pen for a huge number of people, and were fed 186 calories a day in an effort to quickly starve them to death. Tweakabelle didn't express any explicit support for Hamas in this one post but she demonises Israel to such an extent that support for Hamas' position can be nothing but that. Virtually every single post is "war crimes", "war crimes", "war crimes" like she is a military expert.
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