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RE: Never Lied? - 2/12/2011 8:10:29 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotalDiscipline

quote:

Uhm, first off shouldn't you define the word Lie?

no..we know what we talk about

in a normal discussion ..you don't define things al the time to0.. with a dictionary

Thanks. Saved me the trouble of having to say the same thing.

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RE: Never Lied? - 2/12/2011 10:49:25 AM

IronBear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

real men when caught with their pants down, LIE!!!!

Bollocks! Real MEN, when caught with the pants down (depending who catches them), if a female and not related to the g\gentleman) may of course ask if the lady wished to join in. If a male and especially a husband, brother, father or boyfriend, may casually discuss the football or cricket whilst dressing and war doesn't appear to be nigh. failing this he may beat a hasty but dignified retreat maintaining his modesty as best he may untill he can dress properly and then be on his merry way.

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Post #: 82

RE: Never Lied? - 2/12/2011 11:31:21 AM

osf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

real men when caught with their pants down, LIE!!!!

Bollocks! Real MEN, when caught with the pants down (depending who catches them), if a female and not related to the g\gentleman) may of course ask if the lady wished to join in. If a male and especially a husband, brother, father or boyfriend, may casually discuss the football or cricket whilst dressing and war doesn't appear to be nigh. failing this he may beat a hasty but dignified retreat maintaining his modesty as best he may untill he can dress properly and then be on his merry way.

naw, he lies

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Post #: 83

RE: Never Lied? - 2/12/2011 12:34:12 PM

IronBear

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Perhaps then, there are very few Real men with integrity, honour and dignity on this site any more.....................

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Post #: 84

RE: Never Lied? - 2/12/2011 1:37:26 PM

Michael75

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If someone offers me a glass of their prized homemade wine, and it tastes like llama piss, I lie.

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RE: Never Lied? - 2/12/2011 1:41:30 PM

Darkfeather

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotalDiscipline

quote:

Uhm, first off shouldn't you define the word Lie?

no..we know what we talk about

in a normal discussion ..you don't define things al the time to0.. with a dictionary

Obviously a definition was in order if omission was being considered lying. Not telling the whole truth is not lying. Deception is lying, hence the definition to clear things up

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Post #: 86

RE: Never Lied? - 2/12/2011 3:46:17 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather
Obviously a definition was in order if omission was being considered lying. Not telling the whole truth is not lying. Deception is lying, hence the definition to clear things up

Actually, I didn't feel the need for a definition. I don't feel the need to make the assertive statements you did. Instead, I asked a question which would help me to put some scoping around the other answers people gave me. I was OK with them defining "lying" however they wanted. I just needed to understand the definition. That was also the purpose for the question around "any special ritual to transform words into 'your word'.".

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Post #: 87

RE: Never Lied? - 2/12/2011 4:03:39 PM

Darkfeather

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather
Obviously a definition was in order if omission was being considered lying. Not telling the whole truth is not lying. Deception is lying, hence the definition to clear things up

Actually, I didn't feel the need for a definition. I don't feel the need to make the assertive statements you did. Instead, I asked a question which would help me to put some scoping around the other answers people gave me. I was OK with them defining "lying" however they wanted. I just needed to understand the definition. That was also the purpose for the question around "any special ritual to transform words into 'your word'.".

The need for a definition was not a personal assertion towards anyone in particular, but was needed in light of the several statements made that no one person can always tell the truth. The definition was given as a declaration of proof of said statement, clarifying the stance, nothing more.

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Post #: 88

RE: Never Lied? - 2/13/2011 6:16:27 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkfeather
Obviously a definition was in order if omission was being considered lying. Not telling the whole truth is not lying. Deception is lying, hence the definition to clear things up

Actually, I didn't feel the need for a definition. I don't feel the need to make the assertive statements you did. Instead, I asked a question which would help me to put some scoping around the other answers people gave me. I was OK with them defining "lying" however they wanted. I just needed to understand the definition. That was also the purpose for the question around "any special ritual to transform words into 'your word'.".

The need for a definition was not a personal assertion towards anyone in particular, but was needed in light of the several statements made that no one person can always tell the truth. The definition was given as a declaration of proof of said statement, clarifying the stance, nothing more.

Each to their own. If I deliberately omit to say something that I KNOW I ought to, then I'm lying, if not overtly, then covertly. Come on, most of us know when we really should say what *ought* be said, no matter how we dress it up. If there's a difference, then I must add *deceiver* as well as *liar* to my * Oh Well* list....:)

agirl

< Message edited by agirl -- 2/13/2011 6:17:02 AM >

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RE: Never Lied? - 2/13/2011 6:37:21 AM

lally2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael75

If someone offers me a glass of their prized homemade wine, and it tastes like llama piss, I lie.

lol!

if someone said to me 'i never lie' id take them to mean they never lie about important things, the things i need to know about for sure. and i would find that comforting. i would already know they didnt mean they never ever lied, because no one can say that and everyone knows that and surely it doesnt need to be added as a disclaimer.

but i think it depends on who says something like that. if its someone close to you who you know and trust then for them to say 'i never lie' just means they never lie about the stuff that matters.

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RE: Never Lied? - 2/13/2011 6:56:02 AM

IronBear

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I agee lally lass. However I would much prefer to tell a slave and especially a new one with whom the trust is yet to be built, that I will never knowingly or willingly, allow her to become involved in any thing or with anyone where she may be in danger physically, emotionally or mentally.

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Post #: 91

RE: Never Lied? - 2/13/2011 10:10:30 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
if someone said to me 'i never lie' id take them to mean they never lie about important things

See, and I wouldn't even get to say that with Carol much less over my entire adult life. Then again, I suppose would depend on how you defined "important stuff". Perhaps it was just my same old literal engineer's brain reading people's posts, but certainly THIS thread gives a very different tenor than I normally hear to the question of "honesty". Normally when I read posts you'd think that the doms had stepped right off the pages of a romance novel.

One of the things that Carol and I discussed recently on this topic was the difference between the lie and it's follow-up. I generally assume that people are imperfect and so will make mistakes. I generally assume that over the long-haul... decades... at least a few of those mistakes are going to be whoppers. So I'm not looking for someone to be perfect, what I'm watching is how they handle their own imperfections. That tells me a lot more about someone than the error itself unless whatever it is shows up in a repeating pattern.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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Post #: 92

RE: Never Lied? - 2/14/2011 6:32:49 AM

Icarys

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quote:

if someone said to me 'i never lie' id take them to mean they never lie about important things, the things i need to know about for sure. and i would find that comforting. i would already know they didnt mean they never ever lied, because no one can say that and everyone knows that and surely it doesnt need to be added as a disclaimer.

If saying this.

quote:

but i think it depends on who says something like that. if its someone close to you who you know and trust then for them to say 'i never lie' just means they never lie about the stuff that matters.

Why would it then depend on who's saying it. I mean I say that I don't lie and it would mean the same thing as you've stated..Technically I should say I rarely lie..

When I worry about family members and choose not to say it because I don't want them upset. That I suppose is a lie because I'll say everything is going to be fine when maybe I expect it to go differently.

I know that it's very infrequent that I tell any kind of lie no matter how insignificant...even in some of the situations where others of you do continue on to say it's okay. I don't gauge the person I'm talking to as to whether I don't know them well enough to tell them a lie as if it's somehow okay to lie to a stranger because you don't know them? I mean you'd be open to lie to just about anyone at any given time then depending on how you viewed them at a given moment.

It's odd and telling that some of you would find it okay. Hell I know people make mistakes and I know we ALL lie from time to time but I at least try to narrow the field to almost no chance of doing so as much as possible.

< Message edited by Icarys -- 2/14/2011 6:46:34 AM >

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RE: Never Lied? - 2/14/2011 7:01:05 AM

lally2

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ok, so if you said to me 'i rarely lie' id be thinking, 'oh so he admits he does lie then, even if its rarely'

- that would make me blink a bit.

the falsehood of 'i never lie' is transparent enough if you understand that falsehood. i could say 'i never lie, when it matters ill tell the truth, ill be as truthful as i can be though sometimes i might be diplomatic in the words i choose'. its saying what they already know because they do that too, everyone does that.

it is a falsehood and id agree that largely its a dumb thing to write on a board full of people who will wish to tear that to bits semantically because the statement in of itself is rubbish and we all know it is. but we also know that in our hearts we wish to never have to lie to anyone (unless its necessary that we do) - thats the unspoken disclaimer id hear.

maybe part of that is wanting to believe they hold a high standard and that is their standard and to dip below that standard is not something they would willingly do. the moment you drop that standard, semantically, you drop the value of the standard you keep youreself to.

all im saying is that no one doesnt lie but i would think that most of us know the value of honesty over dishonesty and that dishonesty does us no good in the end. therefore to take a high standard and make that a statement is raising the bar and then you have to stand by it. if you dont you have no right to make that statement and you are a big fat liar for saying it. until then you are simply taking a high position on fat LIES. whilst fibs, diplomacy, hedging, dodging and otherwise sparing peoples feelings are sometimes necessary

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RE: Never Lied? - 2/14/2011 7:10:03 AM

Icarys

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quote:

ok, so if you said to me 'i rarely lie' id be thinking, 'oh so he admits he does lie then, even if its rarely' - that would make me blink a bit.

So in a sense you'd rather someone say I never lie and tell a lie than to hear the truth and say I rarely lie lol..

Not picking on you but you have to admit that it's funny logic.

< Message edited by Icarys -- 2/14/2011 7:42:03 AM >

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RE: Never Lied? - 2/14/2011 7:10:38 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

One of the things that Carol and I discussed recently on this topic was the difference between the lie and it's follow-up. I generally assume that people are imperfect and so will make mistakes. I generally assume that over the long-haul... decades... at least a few of those mistakes are going to be whoppers. So I'm not looking for someone to be perfect, what I'm watching is how they handle their own imperfections. That tells me a lot more about someone than the error itself unless whatever it is shows up in a repeating pattern.

While understanding that the man is human and will, at times, err, erring in dishonesty winds up having a greater affect on me than it might on someone else. If even small lies surface - say, embellishing or downplaying something, in order to manipulate my way of thinking or frame of mind (this could be as simple as premature compliments), I am going to question everything as a result. It's just how I think. I am very analytical and things need to make logical sense to me in my mind. If there are "holes" in stories that don't make sense, I'm going to ask about them. I have extremely high standards regarding honesty, of someone who I am going to let in, emotionally, so deep that he owns me.

Yes he can make errors and he can recover from the errors, but the ramifications of errors in judgment regarding honesty are such that I won't trust as easily, and he'll have quite a headache as a result.

I think, with me, it's because I was lied to so much and about so many things for so many years....that in retrospect I realized I wasn't the victim of other people's lies, but of lying to myself, by choosing to believe them when my inner voice nagged otherwise. So I've become very aware of my own self-honesty, and if something doesn't measure up, or that inner voice nags at me again, I'm going to question it.

This isn't a problem with my owner when he's not afraid of the truth. We had a disruption in honesty not too long ago, and recovering from it was a real hassle, and took its toll on both of us, emotionally. It is evident with us, that a truth that stings is far healthier for us than what might seem like an innocent cover-up of a painful truth.

I'm not claiming we've achieved 100% honesty here. Just that for us, those little "white lies" can cause some not so little issues.

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RE: Never Lied? - 2/14/2011 7:13:27 AM

Icarys

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quote:

I'm not claiming we've achieved 100% honesty here. Just that for us, those little "white lies" can cause some not so little issues.

So you don't even tell the occasional white lie to anyone?

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RE: Never Lied? - 2/14/2011 7:13:44 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
whilst fibs, diplomacy, hedging, dodging and otherwise sparing peoples feelings are sometimes necessary

I can honestly NOT think of a time when this would be acceptable between my owner and I.

At work, yes. With family, yes. But with or from Daddy? No.

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RE: Never Lied? - 2/14/2011 7:16:52 AM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

I'm not claiming we've achieved 100% honesty here. Just that for us, those little "white lies" can cause some not so little issues.

So you don't even tell the occasional white lie to anyone?

As I said in my first post (page four):

That said, I try my best to live an honest life, beginning with being honest with myself. Yes, I sometimes lie. I lie at work, I sometimes lie to my mom, and I might lie to people who don't have a major importance importance in my life. It just depends on the topic at hand.

I don't lie to my owner. And this has brought about some interesting discussions and challenges, but regardless, the truth will be spoken.

The statement you quoted was regarding my owner and I, which I clarified in my post to lally (which probably hadn't posted yet when you wrote the above).

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RE: Never Lied? - 2/14/2011 7:19:42 AM

Icarys

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quote:

The statement you quoted was regarding my owner and I, which I clarified in my post to lally (which probably hadn't posted yet when you wrote the above).

I believe so.

As for the other parts..I don't believe I saw it so thanks for the clarification.

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submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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