RE: Free Government Internet

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Elisabella -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/11/2011 5:21:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Your reply gets old. Yes, we are a mixed economy, but every fucking day under this administration we move closer to the socialist side of the spectrum, and you know it. If capitalism was working, we wouldn't be.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/11/2011 5:26:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar There is already free internet in some areas of Mich and other states. The internet wont get to all areas of the states. Hard to believe but there are areas in the US where there still is no phone service. Provided by whom?

Musicmystery -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/11/2011 5:52:43 PM)
quote: every fucking day under this administration we move closer to the socialist side of the spectrum Really? Compared to WWII rationing and takeovers? Now, is this the Bush idea he continued about auto companies? Or the Bush idea he continued about bailouts? Or the Bush idea he continued about stimulus? Or the Republican health care plan from the 90s they're now repudiating? Find a supported argument, then come back.

DamagedPheonix -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/11/2011 6:28:19 PM)
For those people so upset about the Federal government spending money to provide internet services to people and are shouting about Socialism, just remember, the internet was originally built with money from the Federal government, specifically ARPA (now DARPA). The spending of Federal money, our money, is an investment that has been returned dozens of times over. A deal like that, I'll take two! What the Republicans want you to forget is that spending tax money for schools, roads and highways stimulate the economy and provides more for everyone. The big lie the keep repeating is that government doesn't create jobs. This is false on the face of it. And the more we cut taxes on the wealthy, the more we shrink the economy. If Liberals really wanted to destroy this country, they'd vote Republican.

DomKen -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/12/2011 6:05:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Dnomyar There is already free internet in some areas of Mich and other states. The internet wont get to all areas of the states. Hard to believe but there are areas in the US where there still is no phone service. Provided by whom? Not sure about Michigan but the other places this has been done its been by local government although there have been a couple of co op networks as well.

MrRodgers -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/12/2011 6:58:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Thats already been addressed above, John Warren. Again, does government owe everyone (and every business) in the country free unlimited and unmonitored electricity? That would be a better comparison. More of this ? A complete ruse of a post and right from your own link. First, the govt. is going to auction unused spectrum and *receive* an est. $27 billion. Then add seed money of $5 billion, the network money for another $10 billion...all one time expenditures. So let's follow the money as always in America...what do we see. The capitalists investor class has already chimed in... The initiative was met with approval from the Consumer Electronics Association, one of the biggest technology trade associations in the world. CEA president Gary Shapiro, in a prepared statement, commended President Obama. (if you think these people truly represent the consumer...think again) The CTIA -Wireless Association also applauded the initiative by Obama. In an emailed statement, Chief Executive Steve Largent said the association is looking forward to working with White house to get to that 98 percent goal. "The President, along with the majority of policymakers in Washington, realize that in order for the U.S. wireless industry to continue to meet consumer demand and fuel the 'virtuous cycle' of innovation and competition, we must have more spectrum. Our members are willing to spend billions of dollars to purchase reallocated spectrum at auction so we can remain the world's leading wireless industry and provide consumers with the best products and services," Largent said." Suggesting that because the govt. throws money at something and you know this...it does not follow that it is because govt,. owes something to people. Does the govt. owe $20 billion/yr to farmers, owing the people food...no, we still have to pay ever increasing prices and more for milk directly because it is a gift to producers. Does the govt. regulate content and owe everybody food ? Does the govt. owe everybody ethanol ? No, yet there it is...a gift to producers. After govt. spends all of this money and all of that money, there is a price to pay (every month) and some money to be made. Wireless investors are ALL for it. The monthly fees the risk being eliminated by govt....will be a windfall profit. The govt. is using the auction proceeds essentially to fund digital infrastructure that the marketplace is loath to do itself. That this is not a decision made by the marketplace reveals again that investors are risk averse at investing themselves and love every dollar govt. spends on their market. If you are one too...you are looking at the stocks now.

MrRodgers -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/12/2011 7:10:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Elisabella Question for you - with the US in the state it's in now - dismal education, severe urban decay, behind many other countries in math and science...is creating this infrastructure to modernize the US worth the risk of possible government censorship? It would be under a Republican government, but with the Kenyan in charge, it's a terrible idea. Then you obviously prefer repub fascist subsidies over 'Kenyan' subsidies to the investor class. The largest transporation bill in the history of this country, with 15,000+ pieces of pork, passed under a complete repub. govt. in 2006...didn't do a damn thing for infrastructure or jobs or the economy at large.

Termyn8or -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/12/2011 3:28:25 PM)
[first read through, I figured a good place to jump in #12] "If the government begins providing everyone with free Internet, how could private providers survive? " Well first of all, if it is free I think it should be somehow regulated. Some people may take issue with "little Johnny" watching Deep Throat on the school bus. They could be right, if one looks at it objectively. But we're not talking about becoming China. If the free of charge internet is limited in some ways, so be it. That is where the paid services come in. If private and public services coexist, this could be a good thing. If any kid with a laptop w/wifi can get to google, howstuffworks, nasa, things like that from anywhere in the country it would be a good thing. Then Mom and Dad have their internet for other things, you know. Hobnobbing with other wierdos, looking for new meat markets, porn, ePiracy, all the good things. For that you get a private service. Now to be fair, there must be an exceedingly cheap way to access this free service for all Citizens. What about some kid in Dustbowl Oklahoma who has never seen a laptop. Living in a house with only one phone and one TV that used to work. (GASP) Even winos pay taxes, so each person must have access. That's either how it is - or it ain't. So what do we do ? Just pass out the laptops at the schools with the textbooks ? {pause} That wouldn't be all that bad an idea. The textbooks could actually be ON the laptops, rather than dead trees. When errors are found, it doesn't take a massive recall, just an update. Next year's texbooks, just download them. Whoever thunk this up was thinking forward, but implementation is the key. To have all Citizens able to access the internet, it follows that they need the equipment to access the internet. Would/should the taxpayers be responsible for that ?* Who pays for 911 service ? In fact in some areas of the country even if your phone is turned off you still get a dial tone and can make an emergency call, like to the cops or fire, whatever. I'm pretty sure Florida is like that, and actually I don't know about Ohio. Who pays for that ?** It will come down to the same argument in the end. How much do we want to pay for people who don't want to pay for what we pay for ? A possible tougue twister, but that is the question. How far do we go ? Should they be provided for equally, as we who actually do pay ? You decide, it's your tax money. T^T * Saw a videotape from Utah, they came through and gave everyone phones. Coal heated trailerhouse. They went up to Uncle Ano's, 'couldn't' call first. He had just gotten his phone about six months before, and never touched the thing. My Father was there, he and a couple buddies just decided to drop by. They asked him "Does it ever ring ? ", Ano said "Yup". "What do you do when it rings ? " ,,,, "Nothin" Ano replied. (it was actually funny as hell, I'll rip it one day) But then does that mean we need to buy everyone a car because public funds were used to build the roads ? How far do we go ? ** We pay for everything. It could be a tax, or it could be part of the phone bill. "See the back sixty pages of this bill for an explaination of the current charges", and after reading that you still don't have a clue as to actually who is getting the money you are paying. Just trying to see all sides of this.

Real0ne -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/12/2011 3:33:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: President Barack Obama announced his high-speed wireless Internet initiative, which involves reallocating spectrum and up to $15 billion in spending. In a speech at Northern Michigan University in Marquette, Mich., he said the goal is to bring advanced communications to underserved areas. "We want to invest in the next generation of high-speed wireless coverage for 98 percent of Americans," Obama said. "This isn't about faster internet, being able to find a friend on Facebook. It's about connecting every corner of America to the digital age." The goal, he said, is to provide fast Internet connections to 98 percent of the country. One question, to begin with. Once the government takes ownership by virtue of paying the bill, will government then assume the right of controlling content? yep! trying to STAGE an event to pull it under their wing for precisely that scenario.

joether -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/12/2011 3:51:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DamagedPheonix If Liberals really wanted to destroy this country, they'd vote Republican. Sanity, this guy just played the trump card for this thread. I have to remeber that line, DP! :)

Termyn8or -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/12/2011 4:06:25 PM)
Let's hope he took the last trick with it. T^T

DamagedPheonix -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/12/2011 4:32:01 PM)
quote: quote: One question, to begin with. Once the government takes ownership by virtue of paying the bill, will government then assume the right of controlling content? yep! trying to STAGE an event to pull it under their wing for precisely that scenario. You guys keep repeating the same lies over and over again. This is not an attempt to gain control of the internet. The internet was originally built by the Federal government. If there was any interest (if it were even possible to control it) they could have just kept it instead of working with communications companies to expand it for the use of the public at large. They can control content, to whatever degree the courts would allow, through laws the way things are now, whether they own it or not. All your chicken littling is just passing along lies that protect a handful of wealthy at the expense of the general public. When you say "them" who are you actually talking about? This is a government of the people, by the people and for the people and if we want free internet then we'll do it.

Termyn8or -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/12/2011 10:53:38 PM)
FR They can tap and control the internet now, even though it is supposedly in private hands. Bullshit, this move really doesn't give them another edge in spying on us, they already have it. The only way those insidious goals are advanced it by more propogation of the internet. So it means nothing. It's just a bunch of antennae and wires, perhaps some fiberoptics. If you're running home through the swamp from school in Bumfukt Mississippi and crack an alligator upside the head with your laptop, be happy. They knew these discussions would ensue. They know they will get stonewalled for a time. They know that this will be on people's minds. They know that eventually people will like the idea. A chicken in every pot. And the real truth is the only ones bitching about the possible loss of privacy are those who are ignorant of the fact that it is already gone. T^T

DamagedPheonix -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/12/2011 11:08:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: DamagedPheonix If Liberals really wanted to destroy this country, they'd vote Republican. Sanity, this guy just played the trump card for this thread. I have to remeber that line, DP! :) Hey, take it and run with it! It's a meme I'd like to see everywhere. I'm so tired of my patriotism being called into question because I'm a Liberal when it's the Republican's and their ideology who drove this country into a ditch. DamagedPheonix If Liberals really wanted to destroy this country, they'd vote Republican.

Termyn8or -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/12/2011 11:20:48 PM)
Hatfield or McCoy ? T^T

tazzygirl -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/12/2011 11:34:25 PM)
quote: Who pays for 911 service ? In fact in some areas of the country even if your phone is turned off you still get a dial tone and can make an emergency call, like to the cops or fire, whatever. I'm pretty sure Florida is like that, and actually I don't know about Ohio. Who pays for that ?** Works in almost every state. In the U.S., FCC rules require every telephone that can access the network to be able to dial 9-1-1, regardless of any reason that normal service may have been disconnected (including non-payment) (This only applies to states with a Do Not Disconnect policy in place. Those states must provide a "soft" dial tone service, details can be found at http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Reports/FCC-State_Link/IAD/pntris99.pdf) On wired (land line) phones, this usually is accomplished by a "soft" dial tone, which sounds normal but will allow only emergency calls. Often, an unused and unpublished phone number will be issued to the line so that it will work properly. With regard to mobile phones, the rules require carriers to connect 9-1-1 calls from any mobile phone, regardless of whether that phone is currently active.[29] The same rules for inactive telephones apply in Canada.[30] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-1-1 Who pays for it? We all do, those with phone service.

Termyn8or -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/13/2011 12:11:06 AM)
So that means I could break out my seventeen year old Motorola flip phone and have them come arrest me for loitering if I get stuck in a blizzard ? Do we have the RIGHT to a dial tone ? Would that be one of them inalienable rights ? Maybe so. If they gave out laptops and free internet, people could just buy a Magicjack. but then if in an area without phone service, do we give them one of those as well ? That's really the point, my point. They can already probably tell what you ate last Tuesday via satellite. Privacy is an illusion anyomre. Wanna know one of the most secure ways to send a message ? Private mail on a forum like this. It watches for keywords of course, but it is different. Regular email is less secure than sending a dog with a note tied to it's collar, or a message in a bottle. You are doing damn good if you are even private in your own home these days. We aren't quite to the point where we are on camera at home, but I don't think it's long off. In light of that, internet security is a joke. T^T

tazzygirl -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/13/2011 12:15:28 AM)
Ohio doesnt require a dial tone. As far as old cell phones, many women's shelters collect cells people no longer want just for that purpose, to give them to abused women to have access to 911 service. As far as free interent... no... free accessibility, definitely. A library card and, in most areas, anyone can connect.

Termyn8or -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/14/2011 12:30:52 AM)
Soooooo, if they provide it and you don't have to pay anything, they only have to provide what they deem appropriate. You can call 911, but not sister Flo. You can call the fire dept but not your Mother. You can call the police but not your friend. They kinda slipped that control in on ya huh ? When you pay, you control. I'm still for it. Really, if they can get at least public service, like eTextbooks, news and a few other things to everyone, that could be good. But don't expect to see flying Lolitas jump down on horse dicks or anything like that. I wonder if a basic permanent, unspammable email would be appropriate. To ask questions about some things, like zoning (not that I ever would) or other community issues. It really wouldn't be so bad. The problem is who decides what is appropriate. If the governemnet were actually provide for free (which I know is not the case) they certainly should control it. But based on what ? This is what alarms the skyfallingists. The other thing that irks me is that the ISPs would get around to it anyway. They haven't prioritized it because of limited profit potential. But really, sooner or later the technology will make it economically viable. Instead, the government wants to use our money to pay for it while it is still too expensive. As if they will die if they don't get it by tomorrow. Meanwhile, as society unfolds, or more, unravels ......... we don't have the time. T^T

tazzygirl -> RE: Free Government Internet (2/14/2011 1:06:47 AM)
quote: They kinda slipped that control in on ya huh ? When you pay, you control. Why would I expect anything without paying for it? As pay phones have disappeared, so has peoples abilities to contact emergency services. AND, just because someone is too poor to afford a phone line shouldnt mean they have to go without the ability to get help. I dont view that as a control issue. I view it as a helping hand.

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