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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/21/2011 2:37:00 PM   
mbes


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

This is an issue I've been thinking about for a while, and this thread reminded me of it again. Am I the only dom who hates being the one to approach subs? It isn't so much that I'm nervous or afraid of rejection, I just don't like putting a submissive in the position of accepting or denying my attentions at the moment of introduction. It creates a power dynamic which later has to be overcome. My vanilla friends that know about my propensities are especially baffled that I'm not more (in their words) "predatory" with women. Do other doms think the way I do, or am I unique?

I find this interesting, because I tend to see the one taking the active position (the one making contact) in a more dominant position, and the one taking the passive role (waiting for contact) as more submissive. I say I tend to see it that way, because even I don't think it is universal either way, that's just my inclined spin. So it's all in how you look at it.

(in reply to Palliata)
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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/22/2011 8:39:45 AM   
Innisint


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Approaching someone isn't a submissive act. You're not giving them the power to reject you...you're just meeting the person. Have the goal become conversation and it is impossible for them to reject. Either they'll be open or they won't be.

In any event, the dominant act is always to approach someone despite approach anxiety. Shows confidence which alpha males display. Not approaching a woman you're interested in is both over-thinking and a bit weak.


(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/22/2011 9:19:09 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Innisint
In any event, the dominant act is always to approach someone despite approach anxiety. Shows confidence which alpha males display. Not approaching a woman you're interested in is both over-thinking and a bit weak.
Not that I really disagree with you, but I think this statement exemplifies why that word "dominant" is not a label I like for me. Honestly, I could give a rat's ass about "dominant acts", "projecting confidence", "displays" of any sort. I care about achieving my objectives. Man, as soon as we start talking about dominance the next thing we know there are the 2 billion rules of being truly dominant. I like winning because it's nice, clean, and simple. You either won or you didn't. Of course, given that I equate actually winning with actually being dominant it may come down to the same thing in the end.


_____________________________

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Innisint)
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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/22/2011 9:28:03 AM   
Innisint


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Innisint
In any event, the dominant act is always to approach someone despite approach anxiety. Shows confidence which alpha males display. Not approaching a woman you're interested in is both over-thinking and a bit weak.
Not that I really disagree with you, but I think this statement exemplifies why that word "dominant" is not a label I like for me. Honestly, I could give a rat's ass about "dominant acts", "projecting confidence", "displays" of any sort. I care about achieving my objectives. Man, as soon as we start talking about dominance the next thing we know there are the 2 billion rules of being truly dominant. I like winning because it's nice, clean, and simple. You either won or you didn't. Of course, given that I equate actually winning with actually being dominant it may come down to the same thing in the end.



I agree 100%!

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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/23/2011 1:27:05 PM   
Palliata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mbes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

This is an issue I've been thinking about for a while, and this thread reminded me of it again. Am I the only dom who hates being the one to approach subs? It isn't so much that I'm nervous or afraid of rejection, I just don't like putting a submissive in the position of accepting or denying my attentions at the moment of introduction. It creates a power dynamic which later has to be overcome. My vanilla friends that know about my propensities are especially baffled that I'm not more (in their words) "predatory" with women. Do other doms think the way I do, or am I unique?

I find this interesting, because I tend to see the one taking the active position (the one making contact) in a more dominant position, and the one taking the passive role (waiting for contact) as more submissive. I say I tend to see it that way, because even I don't think it is universal either way, that's just my inclined spin. So it's all in how you look at it.

See, I get that a lot, both from BDSM practitioners and even moreso from vanillas looking in – that's what I was referring to when I said predatory. They feel like I should be even more willing than 'normal' men to approach objects of my desire. I can definitely understand that viewpoint, I just don't perceive it that way personally.

In a sense I suppose it's a dominant action, but since dominance in a situation is not an absolute but a perception in a society which allows for freedom of choice (you can't be literally dominant over a person for legal reasons – nothing you can threaten them with can be legally performed, with the exception of situations of blackmail and extortion both of which are illegal in and of themselves) it isn't a matter of what IS but what each of you FEELS, and if the submissive does not feel the correct imbalance in the power dynamic (which is to say, dominant taking control, submissive giving it up) that is going to create a problem. Even if, consciously, the submissive believes approach to be a dominant or neutral act, if a subconscious tilt is introduced to the dynamic by the action there can still be problems.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Innisint
In any event, the dominant act is always to approach someone despite approach anxiety. Shows confidence which alpha males display. Not approaching a woman you're interested in is both over-thinking and a bit weak.




This is what I was trying to head off in my topic post, and it's come up a few times in the thread both directly and indirectly, so I'm going to address it: This isn't a matter of “approach anxiety” or a fear of rejection. It isn't the women who say 'no' that I'm concerned with, it's the ones who say 'yes' and the dynamic that exists with them afterwards.

EDIT: excess comma

< Message edited by Palliata -- 2/23/2011 1:37:08 PM >


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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/23/2011 2:38:22 PM   
IronBear


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Pretty much covers all those with chronic shyness....

Time was when I was doing armed security on the bottle shop at a pub one Christmas and doing cash transfers to the safe. Hard on material chick wanders up and tells me her hubby is away for a week and to ring her when I got off duty. being naturally shy I wasn't about to do anything besides which it would have been unprofessional so it was a no brainer anyway. I binned the note and finished, went home and returned the next afternoon. Bloody female was waiting for me and abused me for standing her up followed by one hell of an open handed slap across my face then stalked off with all her bits and bobs bouncing about.... Would have been safer to have phoned her then screwed the ass off her and fuck company policy. Never made that mistake again. But never was given the number of such a sexy woman either. Ahh well the fuck you turn down is one fuck you'll never have......

< Message edited by IronBear -- 2/23/2011 2:51:19 PM >


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http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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(in reply to Palliata)
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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/23/2011 4:01:56 PM   
Arturas


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FR

THis is by far my mostest favorite thread! So many interesting war stories and so many different opinions and definitions, about one for each person here and of course there is no wrong one.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 2/23/2011 4:03:00 PM >


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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/24/2011 2:39:53 AM   
DMFParadox


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Innisint

Approaching someone isn't a submissive act. You're not giving them the power to reject you...you're just meeting the person. Have the goal become conversation and it is impossible for them to reject. Either they'll be open or they won't be.

In any event, the dominant act is always to approach someone despite approach anxiety. Shows confidence which alpha males display. Not approaching a woman you're interested in is both over-thinking and a bit weak.


This.


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bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/24/2011 4:09:22 PM   
KnightofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

...... It isn't the women who say 'no' that I'm concerned with, it's the ones who say 'yes' and the dynamic that exists with them afterwards.




So.. in short... a person that is approached initially by the D-type person to a s-type.... and says "yes" .... is a problem to the power dynamic that will that will have to be overcome..... .... Ok then...... don't get the logic in that.... not sure what the problem is when an s-type says yes to submitting to one's god like presence!!!!...

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 2/24/2011 11:50:53 PM   
ownedbyPF


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I tend to fall in with the idea that I like a man to approach me. Having said that though, I'm the one who emailed my Owner. He's the only man I've actually ever approached. I came on here and left my profile utterly blank. All I had in it was a name. I wanted to peruse without a deluge of mail. Even with that, I had a deluge of mail! Every time I would log in there would 25 or 30 new messages... my favorites were the one's that said, "I really like your profile." ??? What exactly do you like? The blank spaces? Yeesh! However, in my perusing, I saw my Owner's profile and I liked it... a lot! He would never have emailed me because my profile was blank.

So, first of all, if you are waiting for women to email you, it could be a long wait because with my profile totally blank, I was still flooded with messages.
Second, I don't see any power play at all in who emails whom first. It's what happens from that point forward that sets up the power dynamic. I sent my Owner an email with like three lines in it, basically saying... Have you found what you are looking for? He took it from there. I would compare it to me walking down the street, passing him, smiling, saying hello, and him grabbing me by the hair, spinning me around and saying, "where do you think you are going?"
~s

(in reply to KnightofMists)
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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 3/4/2011 2:21:58 PM   
CelticPrince


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Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:

This is an issue I've been thinking about for a while, and this thread reminded me of it again. Am I the only dom who hates being the one to approach subs? It isn't so much that I'm nervous or afraid of rejection, I just don't like putting a submissive in the position of accepting or denying my attentions at the moment of introduction. It creates a power dynamic which later has to be overcome. My vanilla friends that know about my propensities are especially baffled that I'm not more (in their words) "predatory" with women. Do other doms think the way I do, or am I unique?

_____________________________


Palliata,

Well said! I am another that follows that dictum...simply as a matter mof power position. To become preditory is just to join the hoards of horndogs looking for a hookup.

CP

(in reply to Palliata)
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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 3/5/2011 9:15:04 AM   
ezliamuzed


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quote:

I find that bouncing ideas around in intelligent company is the best way to perfect an idea about human nature - sitting around agreeing with myself can only take me so far.
ORIGINAL: Palliata

How much farther does it take you to have intelligent companions agreeing with you while sitting around? Those perfected ideas about human nature, watch out for those. They start out as open minded questions. The instant you find an answer, it's wrong and you traded curiosity for prejudice. Knowledge works best when left imperfect, like the mind is of the person using it. Ignore any of your ideas that pretend to be factual, true or right, and especially avoid statements that presume to tell you how and what to think.

Approaching can be passive, like when you show up to be approached. If you accessorize your passive approach by wearing cosmetics and baubles your passivity can be downright aggressive. It takes a narrow definition of approaching to excuse anyone from having done it, once they showed up to be noticed.

(in reply to Palliata)
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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 3/5/2011 10:54:05 AM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ezliamuzed

Approaching can be passive, like when you show up to be approached. If you accessorize your passive approach by wearing cosmetics and baubles your passivity can be downright aggressive. It takes a narrow definition of approaching to excuse anyone from having done it, once they showed up to be noticed.


Busted!

I don't know if passivity is my style, but I definitely hang back and step forward when I have a valid reason to do so. In this medium it plays out in a couple of ways. My response is largely dependent on their appeal and the hunger it elicits. The rare but delectable fish would not go unnoticed. I am not overt in expressing interest, but my desire is well implied.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 3/5/2011 11:04:35 AM   
IronBear


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Picked this up on a news feed earlier listening a couple of friends chatting

8 Signs She's Interested In You

Men hate it when women reject them. There's nothing worse than having your ego smashed to little pieces when the woman of your dreams turns you down for a date. You really thought she was interested, but somehow you must have misread her signals.

From the male point of view, women are often far too subtle and indirect -- or just plain confusing -- when revealing their romantic interest (unless you happen to be really good-looking and loaded with cash, in which case they call you). And yes, women often send mixed messages because they're not sure of what's going on inside their own heads.

What most guys are looking for is a set of clear female signals that tell them when a woman is definitely warm for their form.

Does this exist? Well, here are a few signs that should tell you that she probably wants you to ask her out.

1- She's "in your face"
Suddenly, you'll become aware of her presence everywhere -- she "just happens" to show up wherever you hang out; you keep passing her in the hallway at work; she "accidentally" bumps into you; she maneuvers to stand close to you at a club.

What she's doing is trying to get you to notice her and giving you an opportunity to make the first move. The problem with this female strategy is that a lot of guys are completely oblivious to it and consequently throw away a lot of chances to hook up. Men are direct; women are indirect. So, next time a woman starts appearing regularly in your path, be aware that she's likely doing it on purpose.

2- She has all the right moves
A lot of people say that bodies can't lie. Nature has programmed humans with a complex set of non-verbal flirting signals that just flow freely when people are interested in someone. These range from the widening of the iris when looking at the object of desire to more overt displays such as smiling or touching.

Here are a few body-language cues to watch out for:
  • She points in your direction with her leg, foot or shoulders.
  • She leans toward you while talking.
  • She plays with or tosses her hair.
  • She fidgets with a piece of jewelry (like an earring) or strokes the stem of her glass.
  • She keeps her eyes locked on you while she talks or drinks.
  • She mirrors your body movements (for example, if you put your hand on the table, she quickly does the same).
  • She smiling when you check her out.
If you become aware of a cluster of these signals, you can almost be sure that she's giving you the green light for romance.

She makes time for you and she uses "The Probe" to figure you out..

3- She's never too busy
This is a cardinal rule in the dating game: If a woman is interested in going out with you, she will make herself available . This means that she will give you her work number or e-mail address, she will quickly answer or return your call and she will accept your invitation to get together -- and if she's busy on the day you specify, she will say something like, "Well, I can't this Saturday, but next Saturday would be fine, if that's OK."

You'll never hear from an interested woman things like, "I'm really busy right now," or "Let me check my schedule," or "I just got out of a bad relationship, so I'm all mixed up about men." Even if she's currently actively dating someone else, she will keep the lines of communication open with you for the possibility of future contact.

4- She's curious about you
A woman who's interested in you wants to know everything about you (so she can talk about you with her girlfriends). She will quiz you about your family, your background, and your tastes in such things as food, music and movies. Very often, what she's doing is trying to catalogue your interests so that she can mimic your likes and dislikes in order to bond with you -- if you're crazy about hot air ballooning, suddenly, she is too.

5- She uses "The Probe" on you
"The Probe" is the female tool used for ascertaining a man's financial resources. The Probe seems like a series of casual questions, but behind it is a ruthless calculator that's ticking away. When a woman first meets a man that she might be interested in dating, she will quiz him on his job, where he lives and what kind of car he drives, all within the confines of a natural conversation. If you give the "right" answers, then the flirting signals will follow; but if you aren't up to her "standards," she's gone in a cloud of dust.

6- She "futures" you
An interested woman is wide open for any future plans with you. In fact, she will often say something like, "Oh... you like bowling, too? We should do that some time." When she's operating in this mode, make no mistake about it -- she wants you to ask her out.

7- She's on pins and needles
If she's really interested, she'll be as nervous as a cat around you, especially if you're clueless about reading her signals. Of course, she could be just a normally shy person, so watch how she interacts with others -- if she's only fidgety around you, then she's probably thinking romance.

8- She's jealous of other women you talk to
She has the green-eyed monster on her back. An interested woman will watch her competition like a hawk (and with talons bared). So, if you notice her steaming just because you're joking around with other women, you can be sure that she wants you to be more than just her friend. it's time to make your move These are some of the most obvious signals women emit when they want you. But be on your toes -- spotting just one of these signs might not necessarily be enough to determine her interest (a lot of women are openly friendly to everyone).

However, if a lot of these signals are coming your way, it's a pretty safe bet that you could score a date this weekend.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 3/5/2011 11:05:25 AM >


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to porcelaine)
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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 3/5/2011 2:36:45 PM   
porcelaine


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And number 9...

She simply enjoys his company and makes the most of their time together. No probes, games, or other innuendo. Just two people interacting to see where it leads. Now that's a novel concept.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 3/5/2011 3:10:33 PM   
DarkSteven


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I love being in the position to approach or not.  That said, I have been approached s few times.

I try to approach gently enough that the sub can refuse me, no hard feelings.  And while this does put a sub in the position of vetoing/accepting, it's gonna be her or me.  I figure it's like a scene - I make all the decisions, but she still has a safeword.

Yeah, vanillas assume that Doms are uber-men, all dressed in leather and dripping with testosterone.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 3/5/2011 3:44:08 PM   
LillyoftheVally


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I have been approached adn I have approached both online and in real life, sometimes the person I fancy me doesn't talk to me so I do to them. I find both methods work and I feel neither is indicative of oriantation

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'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 3/13/2011 6:45:10 PM   
BelloDom


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I have no qualms about dropping someone a note.  If I'm interested in their profile I'll ask them specific questions, or to elaborate on something that caught my interest.  If they reply the door is open to get to know them as a person first, before introducing any D/s dynamics.  How else will I know if I'm truly interested in them?  I don't see any reason to jump into "Domming" anyone until I know I want to, and that they'd be receptive.

One step at a time.  A thoughtful approach, and a genuine one, in my experience, is always best.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 3/13/2011 7:58:26 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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hat is ;provided the profile owner actually bothers to see if they have mail or not.. Some leave you note there unread for months.. Pity there is no way to toss a flash bang in at them RL to wake them up.. 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to BelloDom)
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RE: Approaching vs Being Approached - 3/13/2011 8:57:37 PM   
Jennislut


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quote:

I'm sub and I approach people. So far I'm finding the people I've approached to be far more interesting than the ones who come to me.
i couldnt agree more if you paid me!

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i just popped in to say

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