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Mubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 8:50:31 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		There are claims he may well be the richest man in the world.

The British Guardian newspaper cites Middle Eastern sources placing the wealth of Mubarak and his family at somewhere between $40 billion and $70 billion. That's a pretty good pension for government work. The world's richest man--Mexican business magnate Carlos Slim--is worth about $54 billion, by comparison. Bill Gates is close behind, with a net worth of about $53 billion.

The GDP per capita in Egypt is a mere $6,200. No wonder why so many were so angry. The article also hints at financial reforms, but that they stalled in light of the global economy.

So, the Swiss government has promised to freeze any assests they can find associated with the former ruler.

The Swiss government has said it is temporarily freezing any assets in Swiss banks that could be linked to Mubarak, an uncharacteristically aggressive move for the secretive banking nation. But that doesn't mean the money will ever be returned to the Egyptian people, and it may even find its way to Mubarak eventually. Other Mubarak funds are reportedly sitting in British banks, and Mubarak was no doubt wily enough to squire away some cash in unlikely places. Plus, an eventual exile deal could allow Mubarak to retain some of his wealth, no questions asked, as long as he and his family leave Egypt and make no further bids for power.

Epic skimming is a common privilege of Middle Eastern despots, and Mubarak and his two sons, Gamal and Alaa, were a bit less conspicuous than some of the Saudi princes and other Middle Eastern royals seen partying from time to time on the French Riviera or other hotspots. The family does reportedly own posh estates in London, New York, and Beverly Hills, plus a number of properties around the Egyptian resort town of Sharm El Sheikh, where Mubarak reportedly went after resigning the presidency.

Mubarak also spread the wealth far and wide in Egyptian power circles--another Middle Eastern tradition--one reason he incurred the kind of loyalty that allowed him to rule for a remarkable three decades. Top Army officials were almost certainly on his payroll, which might help explain why the Army eased him out in the end--allowing a kind of in-country exile--instead of hounding him out of Egypt or imprisoning him once it was clear the tide had turned against him for good.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/How-Hosni-Mubarak-Got-Filthy-usnews-3723955512.html?x=0

The article goes on to say that he still may be able to influence the Army due to his financial connections.

The question remains... should he... or any ruler, if its proven... be allowed to retain their wealth despite the poverty they tossed their country into?

~ETA link

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 2/12/2011 9:02:30 AM >

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 8:52:42 AM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		It's stolen, so no.

Plus he will have to retain a goodly chunk for his defense team at the Hague.

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 2/12/2011 8:53:22 AM >

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 8:53:40 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Is it all stolen? And how do you go about seperating the stolen from the bribes/fees/ect?

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 8:56:55 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Is it all stolen? And how do you go about seperating the stolen from the bribes/fees/ect?


I have no idea how to separate his legitimate presidential pay from his various grafts and bribery money.

If our current aid to Egypt is 1.5 billion a year, how did he accrue 70 billion? If we had always given that much aid (which I'm sure we did not), 1.5 times 30 years is 45 billion.

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 9:01:39 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Mubarak, of course, was a military man, not a businessman. But running a country with a suspended constitution for 30 years generates certain perks, and Mubarak was in a position to take a slice of virtually every significant business deal in the country, from development projects throughout the Nile basin to transit projects on the Suez Canal, which is a conduit for about 4 percent of the world's oil shipments. "There was no accountability, no need for transparency," says Prof. Amaney Jamal of Princeton University. "He was able to reach into the economic sphere and benefit from monopolies, bribery fees, red-tape fees, and nepotism. It was guaranteed profit."


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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 9:03:29 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Is it all stolen? And how do you go about seperating the stolen from the bribes/fees/ect?


A team of crackerjack forensic accountants will resolve the question to about a 90% certainty in a matter of months, if not weeks.


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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 9:17:09 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		I agree he should not recieve the money that was stolen from Egypt. Yet it looks like he will walk away with a huge chunk of it. If even a third of that is from bribes, how would an accountant find that?

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 9:18:29 AM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		I know it's doable (just not by me!!).

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 9:27:08 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Maybe he just dialed 1-800-COLLECT and saved a buck or two.

The best part of the world does not have PACs and whatnot and politicians at their basest are in it for the money, and for the general globe, this is how they go about acquiring that wealth.

It isn't just Mubarek. 


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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 9:31:19 AM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		I'm not ready to buy the kind of numbers that are getting tossed around right now, Tazzy. The richest man in the world? Accountants don't work that fast, and the desire to demonize him is running strong. That said, I'll go right along with the idea that he was the head of an incredibly corrupt system, and will now have a retirement package even better than a California prison guard.

Yeah. I think the money needs to go right back into the general fund, wherever it can be found. I also think realpolitik will now require him to go off to an extremely comfy life somewhere, but I don't like it.

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 9:37:13 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Regardless of the distateful feeling it leaves, I would doubt it is as much realpolitik as it is
Egyptian law, which I am going to wager will favor him, since he wrote it (so to speak) and he won't spend one more day in the slam than the Shoe Dragon Imelda Marcos.

I suspect that he may give back some token amount, nothing more than a cup of water out of the ocean, but I don't know, the fuckers pretty stubborn.

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 9:39:45 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I agree he should not recieve the money that was stolen from Egypt. Yet it looks like he will walk away with a huge chunk of it. If even a third of that is from bribes, how would an accountant find that?


Basically, forensic accountants deconstruct financial accounts by backtracking where the money came from. There's a trail. Money that is transferred electronically was transferred from somewhere, and they track the records of who transferred it and when. Money that is deposited by check leaves a similar trail. Cash is a little tougher, but you're not going to see many legitimate cash transactions on that scale.

The only question is, who's going to actually do it? The United States certainly isn't going to open that can of worms. The only interested party with standing would be the new government of Egypt, and I think there's a pretty good chance he'll strike a deal giving back a considerable portion of that money long before it gets to that point. A lot of the people in the new government who would be in charge of asking those questions will probably have very little personal interest in seeing the answers come to light. He has bought and paid for a hell of a lot of people at all levels of Egyptian society over the years.


< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 2/12/2011 9:40:31 AM >

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 9:59:57 AM   
ashjor911


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Status: offline 		Mr moubarak was indeed a military man who happen by the chance to be one of the most richiest men alive ..... i dont get that
he & his own Son Jamal mobarak have made a law that any forign company will open in Egypt he or his son have to own 52 % of that company profets
how is that for a military man ???
maybe his son the the greedy one but they are all in Jamal & father & mother ( suzan )

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 10:29:52 AM   
ashjor911


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Status: offline 		The only thing that pisssing me off is Germany has giving him a free ticket to Asylum
wheil i am working my bottom day & night to get a student visa

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 10:38:57 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Status: offline 		I don't blame you at all for being pissed about that, but I have to say that there is a fairly good reason for that sort of thing. When the international community facilitates a "soft landing" like that for a fleeing dictator, it makes it easier to persuade future dictators to step down peacefully. It gives them an incentive to walk away with what they can carry rather than destroy their country trying to cling to power because they're got no other choice. 

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 10:45:53 AM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		Why? he worked hard and saved his pennies. 

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 10:46:25 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Basically, forensic accountants deconstruct financial accounts by backtracking where the money came from. There's a trail. Money that is transferred electronically was transferred from somewhere, and they track the records of who transferred it and when. Money that is deposited by check leaves a similar trail. Cash is a little tougher, but you're not going to see many legitimate cash transactions on that scale.


This I can understand .. but...

quote:

he & his own Son Jamal mobarak have made a law that any forign company will open in Egypt he or his son have to own 52 % of that company profets


If what ashjor says is true...and im not doubting him... how do you prove what was investments and what was illegal?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 10:51:35 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Status: offline 		I don't know the details of how they do it, but they're amazingly successful at tracing every single dime and where it came from. The legality of each transaction is something that forensic accountants don't necessarily determine - they simply report on where the money came from, and the courts make a determination on whether or not the transaction was illegal. For instance, they'll testify  that "this $3.8 billion was transferred by Haliburton on December 12th, 1994," and the court will then look at the details of the transaction and decide whether it was a bribe or a legitimate payment.


< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 2/12/2011 10:54:03 AM >

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 11:07:21 AM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Why? he worked hard and saved his pennies. 


'His' pennies ?


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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 11:12:50 AM   
ashjor911


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Why? he worked hard and saved his pennies. 


'His' pennies ?


Yes Sir his pennies & his Ballls

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