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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 11:48:14 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

I know it's doable (just not by me!!).

I doubt they will have specifics but I am sure that with $6 billion/yr. from the canal, there was plenty to go around. Plus as we know, the easiest way to make money is...with money, so a few billion turns into many billions...on paper, just like the Gates and Buffets of the world.


< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/12/2011 11:51:14 AM >

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 11:54:26 AM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Mubarak wealth could be a legalized corruption. As I understand it, foreign businesses in order to do business in Egypt, are by law required to form (20%) partnership with Egypt firms [ http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2011/02/08/f-vp-stewart.html ]. This creates for the ruling (corrupt) class huge source of cash (they decide who gets the deal, their relatives and friends mostly). It could be legally treated the same as the US lobbyists/campaign contributions system, and Mubarak may walk away with money. Egypt economy was in quite good shape (in average). GDP growth for 2010 was 5.7%. The economic model directed wealth towards the top. However GINI coefficient showed still better wealth distribution than in the US. 

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 11:55:35 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I don't blame you at all for being pissed about that, but I have to say that there is a fairly good reason for that sort of thing. When the international community facilitates a "soft landing" like that for a fleeing dictator, it makes it easier to persuade future dictators to step down peacefully. It gives them an incentive to walk away with what they can carry rather than destroy their country trying to cling to power because they're got no other choice. 


I don't think dictators deserve a "soft landing." Why should they be given one when they're at their most vulnerable?
A bullet to the head or a public hanging would do much more to discourage future dictators.
Or in the case of M.E. countries a public beheading with one of those big curvy swords. (Joether knows what they call them.)
And as a U.S. Taxpayer I want every fucking DIME back that he stole from us!
Has President Obama mentioned recouping that money yet?

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 12:14:25 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		No, they want to get it back from Bush and Cheney first, I understand.

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 12:22:52 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

I don't blame you at all for being pissed about that, but I have to say that there is a fairly good reason for that sort of thing. When the international community facilitates a "soft landing" like that for a fleeing dictator, it makes it easier to persuade future dictators to step down peacefully. It gives them an incentive to walk away with what they can carry rather than destroy their country trying to cling to power because they're got no other choice. 


I don't think dictators deserve a "soft landing."


I doubt  that anyone else on the planet does either, but that's not really the point, is it?



quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Why should they be given one when they're at their most vulnerable?
A bullet to the head or a public hanging would do much more to discourage future dictators.


Yeah, right. People have been killing dictators ever since the first man stood upright. It's obviously done a lot to discourage dictators, hasn't it?



quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
And as a U.S. Taxpayer I want every fucking DIME back that he stole from us!
Has President Obama mentioned recouping that money yet?


How much did he steal? Got a ballpark figure here?


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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 12:51:23 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I agree he should not recieve the money that was stolen from Egypt. Yet it looks like he will walk away with a huge chunk of it. If even a third of that is from bribes, how would an accountant find that?


Basically, forensic accountants deconstruct financial accounts by backtracking where the money came from. There's a trail. Money that is transferred electronically was transferred from somewhere, and they track the records of who transferred it and when. Money that is deposited by check leaves a similar trail. Cash is a little tougher, but you're not going to see many legitimate cash transactions on that scale.

The only question is, who's going to actually do it? The United States certainly isn't going to open that can of worms. The only interested party with standing would be the new government of Egypt, and I think there's a pretty good chance he'll strike a deal giving back a considerable portion of that money long before it gets to that point. A lot of the people in the new government who would be in charge of asking those questions will probably have very little personal interest in seeing the answers come to light. He has bought and paid for a hell of a lot of people at all levels of Egyptian society over the years.

Too true...he did not amass his fortune in a vacuum.Others enriched themselves at the trough(trickle down economy at work)and will have a vested interest in arresting any forensic accounting.
Were I a betting man my money would be on a quiet little negotiated settlement that allows him to retain a great percentage of his ill gotten booty while he slinks away.....Leaving the system of corruption intact for others to exploit.
The Egyptian people have rid themselves of Moubarak   which is all good,the real victory would occur were they to be able to deconstruct the system of corruption and despotism which has ,for the past 30 years,allowed him to flourish.

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 12:58:09 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		A couple of things. 1 OP mentions Murabak 'thrusting' the Egyptian people into poverty. This is bollocks, Egypt has prospered under him, the protests were lead by the middle class which didn't exist in Egypt 40 years ago.

2, stolen.....no. He didn't take a slice of the tax revenue or anything, he just comes from a very rich family that knew the right people, and eventually became the right people.....expert assesments of corruption under him refer to general dictatorial suppression of opposition, not embezzlement style stuff.

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RE: Mubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 1:20:50 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The GDP per capita in Egypt is a mere $6,200.


That's not a useful figure.  When you have several very rich people and a lot of poor people, the rich skew the average.  If, for example,  I earn a billion dollars a year and 999 others earn zero, our mean income is a million per year and we all appear wealthy.

Using the median will give a much better picture of the typical Egyptian's situation.  And it's not good.


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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 1:33:21 PM   
ashjor911


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody
2, stolen.....no. He didn't take a slice of the tax revenue or anything, he just comes from a very rich family that knew the right people, and eventually became the right people.....expert assesments of corruption under him refer to general dictatorial suppression of opposition, not embezzlement style stuff.



he was not fucking rich before becoming a dictator 70 bilion $ man c`mon.

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 1:47:44 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		"he was not fucking rich before becoming a dictator"

Check your facts dude.

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 1:48:42 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
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From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Once his stashed billions are identified, why not put the onus upon Mubarak to demonstrate that the funds were acquired legally? That makes it easy doesn't it?

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 1:51:04 PM   
Slavehandsome


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Status: offline 		That'd kind of be like asking Obama to demonstrate that his Kenyan birth certificate was acquired legally.

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 2:09:17 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Once his stashed billions are identified, why not put the onus upon Mubarak to demonstrate that the funds were acquired legally? That makes it easy doesn't it?
It also turns everything upside down.One should not have to "prove" ones innocence as opposed to ones guilt being "proven".

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 2:48:09 PM   
ashjor911


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From: balcony, having a Smoke
Status: offline 		ummmmm i was there in Moubarak (era)
the officer in the airforce just like moubarak was his salery (40.000-50.000 EP)
lets put the presendent on a salery of (750.000-1.000.000 EP)
from the Fuck no end he came up with 70.000.000.000 US $
note that EP is Eygptian Pound & 1 US $ now about 350-500 EP.
do the math.
If he was not Fucking thief he will have 3000 years to make that kind of mony on his fucken salery

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 2:58:49 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		Panda just had to bring up Halliburton..That's kind of a stretch, don't you think ?

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RE: Mubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 4:19:48 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The GDP per capita in Egypt is a mere $6,200.


That's not a useful figure.  When you have several very rich people and a lot of poor people, the rich skew the average.  If, for example,  I earn a billion dollars a year and 999 others earn zero, our mean income is a million per year and we all appear wealthy.

Using the median will give a much better picture of the typical Egyptian's situation.  And it's not good.



The GDP of Egypt is similar to the state of Missouri's.

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RE: Mubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 4:45:11 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The GDP per capita in Egypt is a mere $6,200.


That's not a useful figure.  When you have several very rich people and a lot of poor people, the rich skew the average.  If, for example,  I earn a billion dollars a year and 999 others earn zero, our mean income is a million per year and we all appear wealthy.

Using the median will give a much better picture of the typical Egyptian's situation.  And it's not good.



The GDP of Egypt is similar to the state of Missouri's.


Yes, very similar.

They both contain numbers.

The only difference is Missouri has bigger numbers, but they are indeed numbers, so there is a definite similarity.


List of U.S. states by GDP per capita


2009 Rankings

Rank State GDP per capita in USD

36      Missouri      35,676

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RE: Moubarak wealth - 2/12/2011 4:57:58 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Panda just had to bring up Halliburton..That's kind of a stretch, don't you think ?


Can't think of why it would be.


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RE: Mubarak wealth - 2/13/2011 11:50:53 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The GDP per capita in Egypt is a mere $6,200.


That's not a useful figure.  When you have several very rich people and a lot of poor people, the rich skew the average.  If, for example,  I earn a billion dollars a year and 999 others earn zero, our mean income is a million per year and we all appear wealthy.

Using the median will give a much better picture of the typical Egyptian's situation.  And it's not good.



The GDP of Egypt is similar to the state of Missouri's.


And this illustrates why per capita GDP means nothing.  A typical resident of MO is richer than  typical Egyptian.  Mubarak's income alone will skew.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

"he was not fucking rich before becoming a dictator"

Check your facts dude.



DCWoody, Mubarak evidently is worth at least $30 bil. Are you implying that as an AF officer, he was worth anything like that?  He became rich when being a dictator.  He would have to pocket every single penny of foreign aid PLUS some of the Suez canal money.  I've read that he spread wealth to the upper classes as well - there must have been nothing left to "trickle down".


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Mubarak wealth - 2/14/2011 8:04:45 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
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Status: offline 		Every foreign company that operates in Egypt has to have an Egyptian partner and give them a 40% stake in the business.

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