Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn?

Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (Full Version)

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AAkasha -> Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 2:55:50 PM)
As a femdom with a sensual-sadist streak and a huge fan of bondage, I view a lot of male bondage porn, and not surprisingly, most is M/M. I watch this genre not specifically because I want to see "man to man action" in the form of blow jobs or anal, I watch it because the focus is primarily on the bottom, and the bottom is usually presented as a very attractive, charismatic "victim" vs. in het bondage porn where the male bottom is often a hooded, uncharismatic afterthought or mere prop with the focus on the domina delivering the action. In years and years and YEARS of talking to male subs and bottoms and possible suitors, when I try to engage them in getting involved in understanding male/male porn, or even bondage with the focus on the man, very few ever stay motivated about it at all - unless they are driving their own forced oral/cuck fantasy. While hundreds of men have sent me unsolicited pictures/videos/links of images and videos they think I will find "erotic," most are the same old porn clips with the focus on the woman, or on the predicament, with a totally unattractive man or invisible man on the receiving end of the action. I can count on one hand the number of men that have found a good example of male bondage - from mainstream stuff to m/m porn - where there would clearly be an appeal for a woman who enjoys seeing a man in bondage or BDSM. It's never m/m in focus, even though this market is swimming with great imagery. Why aren't het men studying this stuff and getting a sense of what femdoms like? I'm not the first femdom to proclaim that while I like BDSM porn, I tend to gravitate toward gay BDSM porn not because I have a huge thing for guys together, but because the men are more pretty to look at. Akasha

ThePeripatetic -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 3:17:17 PM)
quote: Why aren't het men studying this stuff and getting a sense of what femdoms like? Honestly Akasha, I don't usually go to porn to "study". I typically have one thing on my mind when I'm pulling up porn. So I usually turn to CM, that other kink site, and erotica when I'm "studying". And what you're saying in regard to you, as a Femdom, being more attracted to the male bottoms in M/m BDSM porn is something I never really thought about. It never dawned on me that there might be something worth studying from gay BDSM porn that could help me as a het guy submissive. Do you mind suggesting a few examples of places to turn to for some studying material? [Edited to say that I also, of course, turn to your site for study material as well!]

mummyman321 -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 3:40:48 PM)
Porn is just that. its PORN! Its not a role model! Some companies may do others in having a better story line but it does not change the fact its porn. The only reason it sells is because it appeals to a certain group of people and those people are willing to buy it. Am I going to mimic myself after gay porn? No. Am I going to mimic myself after Femdom porn. No. I would think a better way to find out what a potential FemDom likes is simply to ask her/talk to her.

AAkasha -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 3:41:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThePeripatetic quote: Why aren't het men studying this stuff and getting a sense of what femdoms like? Honestly Akasha, I don't usually go to porn to "study". I typically have one thing on my mind when I'm pulling up porn. So I usually turn to CM, that other kink site, and erotica when I'm "studying". And what you're saying in regard to you, as a Femdom, being more attracted to the male bottoms in M/m BDSM porn is something I never really thought about. It never dawned on me that there might be something worth studying from gay BDSM porn that could help me as a het guy submissive. Do you mind suggesting a few examples of places to turn to for some studying material? The kind of sites I am talking about - bondagejeopardy.com, tieguyuk.com, ropermike.com. More vanilla guys I used to know who were curious about my kinky side may be more inclined to look at that stuff, from a "What do you like about that so much, what gets you off so much?" and view it at passing glance more like an investigation. So is it more than if a man - bottom, kinky sub - considers looking at "male porn" in order for research/understanding, he's uncomfortable at the concept (or unfamiliar, confused) at why he's viewing "porn" with no goal of "arousal"? Not sure if that makes sense. Only a handful of times in my life has a man understood my fetishes well enough that he could tell, for example, when watching a movie with me, if an obscure pseudo bondage moment would turn me on, or the way a man "begs" for something in a totally S&M way. He understood that from understanding what other "hot buttons" I have based on what kind of porn turns me on - more specifically, what it IS about a man tied up, in pain, suffering, helpless - that makes me so excited. You won't see that in het bdsm porn. My 'boytoy' in Montreal called me last week to let me know there was a documentary about their netminder, Carey Price, that had a brief few seconds in it that I would find incredibly erotic. Obviously, there's nothing sexual in this documentary about hockey. But the female hostess sat the goaltender on a couch and said, "I want you to see this," and proceeded to show him video of himself in training during a grueling bike test (vo2) which is (to me) a somewhat objectifying and cruel test for measuring endurance while essentially bound (not literally, but he's not going anywhere) and gagged (no talking with a tube in his mouth); and he described it as, simply, "Suffering." One word. Bam. Akasha-porn. You don't get that subtle understanding of what fetishes a woman has without taking time to kind of understand and identify what aspects of male bondage (taken from M/m porn, for example) resonate to this femdom specifically; it's surely not an erotic task to figure out, but for the sub who does, he basically holds the keys to what gets my engine going. That task itself, from a self indulgence POV for the man, is pretty thankless and I would imagine not very erotic -- but the end game, the result, is like having the key to my head. It's pretty much all out there for a man who wants to do the work, but most don't care about that. A woman may watch porn to figure out how to give a better blow job or be more "sexy" in bed. She is studying what men apparently get off on; she isn't getting off on the videos she's watching, but she does it because it's exciting and erotic to know she can use those ideas to drive a man wild in bed. Bad analogy? Akasha

AAkasha -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 4:19:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mummyman321 Porn is just that. its PORN! Its not a role model! Some companies may do others in having a better story line but it does not change the fact its porn. The only reason it sells is because it appeals to a certain group of people and those people are willing to buy it. Am I going to mimic myself after gay porn? No. Am I going to mimic myself after Femdom porn. No. I would think a better way to find out what a potential FemDom likes is simply to ask her/talk to her. What if the examples are not porn, then, but imagery of men in bondage from mainstream tv and film? Akasha

ThePeripatetic -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 4:54:12 PM)
From my perspective, the difficulty with these scenarios you are suggesting is that my brain isn't wired like a Femdoms. I generally can't watch either porn or mainstream movies, see a guy tied up and then suddenly think, "Oh, this is what gets a Femdom going." What I would need is to be communicating with my partner and for Her to say, "Yeah, that scene right there, that's hot". Then I start to get an idea of what I can be seeking out that can help me fulfill Her fantasies. It's like the example with your boy in Montreal. The only way he was able to process what he was seeing as "Akasha porn" (from a documentary of all places) was after having had a lot of conversations with you. He understands what makes you tick.

AAkasha -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 5:10:50 PM)
I realize the better title for this thread should be: "Can men who desire to bottom to femdoms learn anything from M/m Fetish materials?" Akasha

mummyman321 -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 5:38:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha What if the examples are not porn, then, but imagery of men in bondage from mainstream tv and film? Akasha I guess I am failing to understand your point. Point 1, You mentioned why aren't men studying this stuff to get a sense of what FemDom's like? I am not sure how I would draw the conclusion of having m/m bondage to being this is what a Femdom wants? Point 2, How is a person to learn from imagery? Whether it be mainstream tv, film or porn? Imagery can be increadibly erotic and it can certainly get the mind going. But unless that imagery is coming from a Femdom I am not going to make the assumption this is what a Femdom wants.

seekingOwnertoo -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 5:59:37 PM)
My thoughts to your question … are quite simple. Yes, I have thought about polyamorous relationships. And yes, I have thought about the implication … m on m … I guess my response is pretty simple. 1. The relationship is Female Dominated, totally. 2. The Lady makes my heart throb so uncontrollably, all I want to do is please Her. 3. She supervises this, and it is for Her pleasure. Then I could be willing … Laughs to self … but I suspect, there are enough conditions stated, that this is really unlikely! [:)] Have a great day! Err ... maybe I did not answer your question. [:)] I am not offended by it, rather, I don't pay attention to it! And I could care less! [:)]

AAkasha -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 6:03:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mummyman321 quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha What if the examples are not porn, then, but imagery of men in bondage from mainstream tv and film? Akasha I guess I am failing to understand your point. Point 1, You mentioned why aren't men studying this stuff to get a sense of what FemDom's like? I am not sure how I would draw the conclusion of having m/m bondage to being this is what a Femdom wants? Point 2, How is a person to learn from imagery? Whether it be mainstream tv, film or porn? Imagery can be increadibly erotic and it can certainly get the mind going. But unless that imagery is coming from a Femdom I am not going to make the assumption this is what a Femdom wants. If male subs emulate what they see in femdom porn (and MANY do, right from the automatic robotic "Yes Mistress No Mistress anything you say Mistress" out of hte gate), do they do this because they believe this is what femdoms want? Meanwhile, overwhelming numbers of femdoms say that subs get the wrong idea of how to be "attractive" in "bdsm scenes" based on het porn, and many femdoms express that they find m/m bondage BDSM more tantalizing. What would that lead people to assume? What do you think women like, enjoy, desire as "tops" in a BDSM "scene," - and where do you personally get this information? How can you make fetishes enjoyable for women? What do women get out of being sadistic? Do men know/care? Akasha

cloudboy -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 6:39:43 PM)
It is probably easier to just look good. A fat, bald, hairy, short guy with coke bottle glasses in army green sweat pants won't transform into a caged sexy beast by watching gay porn. Although its helpful to try and spot what another person likes, its better to be yourself and get validation for it. Mimicry -- smacks of desperation. If I turn this around and ask why women aren't watching F-F porn to better connect with me because I think its sexy --- well -- the trick would be -- how do I mention this tactfully so that I'm not rude and obnoxious. The risk - reward calculus looks ominous. .

mythoclastic -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 7:46:59 PM)
If the porn industry fails to provide you with what you want, the responsibility falls on you to make it.

ThePeripatetic -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 8:28:06 PM)
For me, I learned how to be cognizant of what a Femdom wants by being in a relationship with one. The knowledge She imparted to me really couldn't be had by watching porn or reading books and forums. In terms of what you're saying about watching M/m BDSM porn, there's really only two reasons I'd start tuning-in to it for pointers. One reason would be if I was serving and/or in a relationship with a Femdom and She referenced M/m BDSM. My ears would certainly perk up if She mentioned particular elements that just "did it" for Her. With Her making some of Her preferences known to me I would then commit to further inquiries and try to learn more, both from Her and on my own initiative. The second reason I would be more apt to pay attention to M/m BDSM is if I heard more Femdoms voicing similar sentiments as your own Akasha. I'll definitely check it out a bit now because your post has piqued my curiosity. But frankly, right now, I'm going to put much more effort into areas that I've heard Femdoms regularly speak about and point to as being "attractive" in a sub. Things like intelligence, being well-read, and physical fitness and health. I have no problem watching M/m BDSM if i knew it would benefit me as a sub in a F/m relationship. It doesn't offend or bother me. But it seems like it would be an effort in futility for me. Again, I'll reiterate, my mind isn't wired like a Femdoms. I wouldn't know what aspects of M/m porn to tune into to pick up pointers from. I mean is it the bottoms reactions and demeanor while he's being whipped that I should be learning from? Correct me if I'm wrong here but don't most Femdoms want natural responses from their subs? Wouldn't most Fem sadists want to see natural manifestations of fear and pain rather than something acted out in imitation of BDSM porn? And I understand what your suggesting about many male subs picking up their cues from all the distasteful, male-directed Femdom porn out there. I think the solution for this is that they just need to stop trying to imitate this in it's entirety. But again, men aren't really watching this as "homework". They're watching it because it fulfills and caters to their fantasies. And when they recreate it in real-life in the bedroom with a partner, again, it's about their (the male sub's) fantasies, not their partners. In these scenarios what's needed is an attitude adjustment, not M/m gay porn.

LPslittleclip -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 8:29:52 PM)
my Mistress enjoys m/m porn and gets Her hot so i wach it and find what parts She likes best and try to emulate that

PeonForHer -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 8:44:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha "Can men who desire to bottom to femdoms learn anything from M/m Fetish materials?" Akasha I guess the answer for me would be: there probably is something that could be learned, but there isn't the necessary motivation to seek out the learning. I dimly remember saying things like 'It's all about the femdom' - but, really, that's crap. It isn't. I don't get turned on by M/m porn, therefore I probably won't look at it. Hmmm. Though, ironically . . . I do need to know what it - whatever 'it' is - is doing for the femdom concerned. But iff there's a 'femdom' involved in the porn in question, I'll usually believe that she's just acting. If there's no femdom involved - instead, maybe a male - same difference. And, thinking about it - I'd probably end up believing that the M in M/m porn is just acting, too. Whatever - in short: no win for me.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 10:10:05 PM)
Why would a man seek out m/m porn if he didn't get turned on by it? Choosing to watch it to find out what a woman likes without being directed to? That's a leap of logic very few would make.

AAkasha -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 10:12:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThePeripatetic The second reason I would be more apt to pay attention to M/m BDSM is if I heard more Femdoms voicing similar sentiments as your own Akasha. I'll definitely check it out a bit now because your post has piqued my curiosity. But frankly, right now, I'm going to put much more effort into areas that I've heard Femdoms regularly speak about and point to as being "attractive" in a sub. Things like intelligence, being well-read, and physical fitness and health. These are attractive qualities for a relationship partner and/or submissive, yes; but I am talking about attractive traits in a bottom or play partner. There can be some overlap, but still, different things. quote: ORIGINAL: ThePeripatetic I have no problem watching M/m BDSM if i knew it would benefit me as a sub in a F/m relationship. It doesn't offend or bother me. But it seems like it would be an effort in futility for me. Again, I'll reiterate, my mind isn't wired like a Femdoms. I wouldn't know what aspects of M/m porn to tune into to pick up pointers from. I mean is it the bottoms reactions and demeanor while he's being whipped that I should be learning from? Correct me if I'm wrong here but don't most Femdoms want natural responses from their subs? Wouldn't most Fem sadists want to see natural manifestations of fear and pain rather than something acted out in imitation of BDSM porn? And I understand what your suggesting about many male subs picking up their cues from all the distasteful, male-directed Femdom porn out there. I think the solution for this is that they just need to stop trying to imitate this in it's entirety. But again, men aren't really watching this as "homework". They're watching it because it fulfills and caters to their fantasies. And when they recreate it in real-life in the bedroom with a partner, again, it's about their (the male sub's) fantasies, not their partners. In these scenarios what's needed is an attitude adjustment, not M/m gay porn. Natural reactions, yes. Nothing totally faked of course. However, a sly man can be attentive about the way he reacts - which specific types of reactions - tend to arouse his partner most. I have had my share of dominating very boring, stoic wet blankets. I have been able to teach most, but not all, to be a little more responsive and animated. I have also dominated my share of melodramatic and embarassing types that try to over-emulate everything to the point that it's a distraction and is too "campy." But it's like dancing, or making love - a man has to know how to use his whole essence, from hips to ankles to wrists to breathing to eyes, to mouth - to be a 'victim' that is engaging, arousing, attractive to the predatory sadist who is enjoying his suffering. Is that "faking" it? I don't know; I don't really care, if he "fakes" it to the point that I cannot tell if his fear, vulnerability or helplessness are 100% real or not. My guess is that a good bottom takes an authentic feeling (fear, for example) and amplifies it, because he knows that the domina is thirsting for that on some level. He knows that she gets off on his helplessness, so instead of just being in his own head about how the helplessness feels, he will use his body or words or eyes to convey that to her -- because he knows this is what turns her on. I've often told bottoms that I fully understand they often feel two very overwhelming things at the same time: arousal and vulnerability. As a femdom, I am MOSTLY interested in vulnerability. I am a sadist. I get off on seeing a man suffer, or be afraid, or endure pain. The arousal, to me, is a given. I don't need that advertised. I am not focusing on his erection. I am focusing on his eyes, his soul, his surrender, his vulnerability, because that's what makes me incredibly wet - and satisfies what drives me to dominate. If he wants to keep the dominant side of me interested in pushing deeper and deeper, he has to be engaging and interesting as "prey." If he just wants me to whip out my strap on and ride him while he grunts and acts like a robot, and/or rambles a bunch of porno-type lines to me because it turns him on to hear himself say those things, then one of us isn't going to be having a fully enjoyable time with it. I don't force men to watch m/m porn, or obscure clips from TV shows with male bondage, or things like that; but I offer it up as a clue if a man is interested in a personal relationship with me where I pursue him, and I am predatory. This is my preferred style, I like to be so into a man that my lust is the primary motivating factor for my desire to dominate him. I can certainly have a blast, usually, just playing fun S&M games because I enjoy pushing buttons. But for the men that want to relate to me on a deeper level, it requires doing a bit of homework, and unfortunately, it's not the kind of homework they find particularly titillating. What made me curious is why more men who want to be "very in demand bottoms" for toppy ladies don't study what toppy ladies crave. Akasha

PeonForHer -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/13/2011 10:30:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Why would a man seek out m/m porn if he didn't get turned on by it? Choosing to watch it to find out what a woman likes without being directed to? That's a leap of logic very few would make. Pfft. Maybe, if I was interested in a woman who I knew was keen on it. Or if she were to say that it held something that F/m porn didn't hold. I'd be fascinated then, I should imagine. But that would be a few stages on for me, I think. Too hypothetical for me right now.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/14/2011 2:42:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThePeripatetic For me, I learned how to be cognizant of what a Femdom wants by being in a relationship with one. This. I find the idea of someone basing how they should behave around me on what they've seen in porn to be really creepy.

LadyPact -> RE: Are male subs (bottoms) offended by m/m bondage porn? (2/14/2011 3:39:38 AM)
Same. I also don't care for the idea that males should be studying porn because that must be what all women want. I think the smarter thing to do is find out what turns on the particular woman that a male is with and go from that angle. What good does it do Me for guys to study what turns someone else on? I find it much more beneficial for him to know what trip's My trigger rather than some kind of generalization.

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