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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 6:54:10 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		When police officers start performing triple bypass surgery, deal with the illnesses that plague mankind and show good bedside manner.......THEN......you can require medical people (Doctors, Nurses, Nurse-Practiioners, etc) to do the police's job. It is not the medical community's job to uphold the laws, its law enforcement. You would think the Republicans in that state would get the basic idea of what 'law enforcement' does right? They.....E-N-F-O-R-C-E the laws of the state. If Jan Brewer is too stupid on this concept, maybe she should be removed from the job. Along with all the other racist and hateful Republican flunkies who cant make it in .... The Real World.

Funny how Arizona and Iran share something in common with each other: They are both attention whores for US Media. If either one is out of the spotlight for longer then a week, they have to do something completely insane just to get the cameras and journalists attention back on to them. I guess both their economies would fail within three weeks if everyone just ignored them.

If Arizona has such problems with its border, why not raise their taxes, THEN, create a 100 foot tall wall along their state's border. Armed with people they....[gasp].....hire......[/gasp] to patrol said border. With a few hundred billion from those raised taxes, they could even get a few predator drones to help aid in the solution. But as you know, Arizonains are against raising taxes and demand the OTHER 49 states pay for such obsurd things for them. Why should they have to pay for something they think should be in place? The Commonwealth of Massachusetts didnt ask other states to pay for its Mass Health program, did they? The citizens of that state decided health care for all its citizens was important enough. Frankly, until Arizona raises its taxes and does something serious about the problem, why should the other 49 step in?

Finally, the medical community exists in each state to do something far more important then enforce the laws of some petty dictator (like Jan Brewer); they treat the wounded, the ill and those whom need help with medical problems. Its pretty sad that Arizonaians just dont get the concept. How stupid is the typical Arizonaian?

What's next for Arizona's 'crack down on illegal immigrants'? Ignore the 4th Amendment at will and just inspect whomever and where-ever the police damn well wish to do? Isn't it ironic that the folks most against the 'police state' concept, are doing everything they can to have one? Once they do, they'll blame everyone for not telling them what their state got transformed in to. Not only that, but blame Democrats and liberals for creating the whole mechanical monstrousity; cus Republicans are incapabible of doing wrong, right?

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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 6:55:35 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

While I am not unsympathetic to the problems that illegal immigration is causing Arizona and the other border states, I find this idea most distasteful. I have always looked upon the medical profession as a calling, a noble profession that should rise above mere petty politics when it comes to treating the sick and injured. We as a society, when articulating our noblest instincts, expect that doctors on the battlefield will treat the captured, wounded, enemy soldier the same as one of our own wounded. We expect them to treat anyone who comes into the emergency room whether they be prince or pauper. Yeah, I know, that is usually doesn’t work out that way but that is the direction we should move in when it comes to medical treatment. This law moves us in the other direction. One cannot dismiss the problems of funding but that is for the politicians (and collarme posters) to endlessly haggle over. When there is a person in need of their expertise in front of them, the doctor’s only concern should be practicing medicine – not who the person in front of them is… or where they are from.


Some ERs simply close down.   The wait is so long at Lewisburg- that some simply go home.  and now that crowd is spilling over to the local ER here.

People must stop using ERs for a stubbed toe.

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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 6:55:38 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

For Senate? Hell, Sheriff Joe for President!


Oh fuck! Does this mean we will soon see a new law requiring everyone to wear pink underwear?



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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 6:57:10 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Yeah Joe- never mind that Mexico considers AZ to be Atla- and wants to take it back. -- along with most of the southwest. 

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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 6:58:41 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
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Status: offline 		Reconquista (Mexico) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:01:35 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity



vs. the Dem Lib idea of Senator material



Vs. the Republican idea of Presidential material.





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 2/15/2011 7:04:11 AM >

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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:03:00 AM   
Sanity


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Most other nations are a lot more strict regarding cross border invasions than we are, I dont know why we have to be so kind. If their condition is serious give them their medical care then deport them. Perhaps they wont be so quick to migrate here illegally if we dont roll out the red carpet for them the way we do!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
The downside is that people who need medical treatment may not seek it out for fear that they will be deported. The downside is needless suffering. I am all in favor of increased border security but this is not a solution to the problem of illegal immigration.



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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:03:46 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Some ERs simply close down. The wait is so long at Lewisburg- that some simply go home. and now that crowd is spilling over to the local ER here.

People must stop using ERs for a stubbed toe.


Like I said, you can't dismiss the problems of funding - but when a doctor does have a sick or injured person in front of them, their ethical duty (IMHO) is to treat them and worry about the business end of it later.

Now, if I was a doctor in an ER and someone came into an emergency room with a stubbed toe, my expert advise to them would be: "It will heal on its own in a matter of hours. Until then tread lightly on it. Now go home and watch where the fuck you're walking." Then I'd turn my attention to the heart attack patient who just came in.



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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:08:24 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:09:11 AM   
Marc2b


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quote:

Most other nations are a lot more strict regarding cross border invasions than we are, I dont know why we have to be so kind. If their condition is serious give them their medical care then deport them. Perhaps they wont be so quick to migrate here illegally if we dont roll out the red carpet for them the way we do!


You're focusing on the wrong problem. I'm all in favor of throwing up some fences and electronic surveillance and hiring enough border gaurds to watch every square inch of the border. It will be cheap. Of course if we do that then the conservatives will loose access to cheap labor and the liberals will loose access to new voters they deisre, but that is not the point. Doctors treating people is not a immigration issue.. it is a humanitarian issue.

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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:13:38 AM   
Sanity


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Endless waves of this invasion across our Southern border are making the United States into a third world country Marc, which is a looming humanitarian crisis for our children and our grandchildren.


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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:19:39 AM   
Sanity


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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:20:11 AM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		If the Fed enforced the laws that are on the books do you think that AZ would be doing all this?   Or do you think that allowing law breakers into the country is a good thing?

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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:24:05 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

If the Fed enforced the laws that are on the books do you think that AZ would be doing all this?   Or do you think that allowing law breakers into the country is a good thing?


Maybe it is just an unenforceable problem.

Sort of like the war on drugs, and it may be time to seek other solutions.

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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:25:01 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		If people didn't hire them they would be coming in droves.

Here is an idea, put any employer who hires an illegal alien in jail.

Let the doctors practice medicine.

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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:28:06 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		If that were true, then why not pass a law so that no one is illegal and then I will quit complaining because then anyone can come and go at will and be a citizen.  I complain because the Fed does not enforce it's own laws.   I complain because these people break the laws that are on the books and no one seems to care.    Why is it that you (not necessarily you specifically but in the more general sense) seem to support all this lawlessness and disregard for OUR laws?

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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:28:47 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b
The downside is that people who need medical treatment may not seek it out for fear that they will be deported. The downside is needless suffering. I am all in favor of increased border security but this is not a solution to the problem of illegal immigration.

Most other nations are a lot more strict regarding cross border invasions than we are, I dont know why we have to be so kind. If their condition is serious give them their medical care then deport them. Perhaps they wont be so quick to migrate here illegally if we dont roll out the red carpet for them the way we do!


Yes, other nations also pay for its citizens to have good health care as well. Oh wait, we cant have that in our country because it would and I quote '....cost to much money....'. Conservatives pissed away a golden opporunity back in 2010. When Democrats were putting together Health Care, they could have done the same with Immigration. Then come to the table and *gasp* comprised to pass both bills through Congress and the President. But, as we know from history, Republicans took the usual low road instead of the high road. And now want to blame others for their stupidity and not take responsibility for their actions.

You want better border control? I want better health care for my countrymen. You willing to deal honestly on both issues?

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:36:11 AM   
jack8007


Posts: 392
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Status: offline 		the reality is, all of life is a trade-off between what we want, and what we can support.

Nixon sold the Republicans' soul to the devil with his "southern strategy", knowing that was the place it was easiest to sell stupidity.  Beginning with Reagan, one of the Republicans' guiding principles has been their pride in refusing to think ahead, and insistence on that no brains are needed, and the Hollywood principle that perception is reality. 

Now the Republicans cannot break loose from Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin - those easily control half the votes - and Beck & Palin would be nowhere without the Wall Street (Fox, Koch etc) money that gets them an audience.   Wall Street is understandably looking for one thing only, to preserve the next quarter's profits, and the hell with anything else, including you.

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RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:42:20 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

If that were true, then why not pass a law so that no one is illegal and then I will quit complaining because then anyone can come and go at will and be a citizen.  I complain because the Fed does not enforce it's own laws.   I complain because these people break the laws that are on the books and no one seems to care.    Why is it that you (not necessarily you specifically but in the more general sense) seem to support all this lawlessness and disregard for OUR laws?



I don't support it.

But I'm trying to be realistic.

What effect has the efforts to contain the problem had?

We built a fence that has done no good, we have vigilantes roaming the border, we've even sent in the military, and yet we still have the same problem.

And the ultimate fact is that there are employers who hire them, so if you truly believe it is such a problem then you are attacking it from the wrong end.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Arizona is at it again - 2/15/2011 7:43:29 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
If that were true, then why not pass a law so that no one is illegal and then I will quit complaining because then anyone can come and go at will and be a citizen.  I complain because the Fed does not enforce it's own laws.   I complain because these people break the laws that are on the books and no one seems to care.    Why is it that you (not necessarily you specifically but in the more general sense) seem to support all this lawlessness and disregard for OUR laws?


Funny how they have speeding laws in Arizona, and the typical person breaks that law numerous times a day. No one in Arizona seems to care to enforce the speed limit. Frankly there are more people stopped in Arizona last few years for speeding, then those who hopped the border. You demans prosecution for every illegal immigrant, but not speeders? Why is that?

I know AZ is only half way to a NAZI statehood. If you dont realize that Democrats aren't going to give you everything you want by now; your an idiot. You want better border control? Then you come to the comprise table like a mature adult who will deal in an honest and fair fashion. But we both know, your unable of doing such an action. And THAT, is were the real problem lies. Conservatives were the ones that torpedo'd the Kennedy/McCain Immigration bill of 2007. Would have been a decent comprise and updated the laws for 30-50 years. So why should Democrats have to 'break their chops' AGAIN, to return to this issue, when they know conservatives will behave like 6th graders at the comprise table?

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 40
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