RE: Arizona is at it again

RE: Arizona is at it again (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 10:27:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jack8007 I'm sure you feel that way. What do you feel about how that would work? and what it would cost to run? and why a person with US citizen ancestors might have not been in the US for generations, and be voting from the Kremlin? A person with US citizen ancestors can be voting legally from the Kremlin right now.

popeye1250 -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 11:23:39 AM)
"We will never again seek another amnesty and the borders will henceforth be secured." Ted Kennedy, 1986

tazzygirl -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 11:24:51 AM)
Are we currently seeking amnesty?

jack8007 -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 11:31:03 AM)
I gotta say, I've been around this 25+ years, and I credit the US consular officers with more sense than this - not only do they read the papers, they actually make the news, and this is the 1st time I've heard of what is essentially a commercial conspiracy to violate visa laws - so it smells like somebody trying to make a story where there really isn't so much of one. I've run into more mothers who want to have their kids OUTSIDE the US, so they won't be drafted - most births are a matter of accident, convenience or home to the mother - believe it or not, most people want to stay where life is familiar.

Lucylastic -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 11:31:10 AM)
he wont be saying that again!

jack8007 -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 11:43:59 AM)
Who is "we"? And what is "amnesty"? The GOP has made it pretty clear that they're going to try to obstruct as much as they can, as long as they can, even if it makes them look like children - when voters are pissed off, they'll vote for children - and Obama has made it clear that he's not going to rock any boats. So the answer is pretty much No.

tazzygirl -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 11:50:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jack8007 I gotta say, I've been around this 25+ years, and I credit the US consular officers with more sense than this - not only do they read the papers, they actually make the news, and this is the 1st time I've heard of what is essentially a commercial conspiracy to violate visa laws - so it smells like somebody trying to make a story where there really isn't so much of one. I've run into more mothers who want to have their kids OUTSIDE the US, so they won't be drafted - most births are a matter of accident, convenience or home to the mother - believe it or not, most people want to stay where life is familiar. What violation? There is no violation. Its perfectly legal... as long as they can pay for it. There is no story made up.. as much as you may want to see a conspiracy theory here. And its more than one hotel. Remember, the one mentioned isnt a US hotel, but a turkish one. And, until this story broke and they started getting all sorts of calls, they were running the package openly on their web site. In recent years, many women have come from Mexico, South Korea, China and Taiwan, but the trend now extends to countries in Eastern Europe, such as Turkey, where as many as 12,000 children were born in the United States to Turkish parents since 2003 by one estimate. The business of birth tourism is perfectly legal as long as immigrants are able to pay their own way. The State Department and Department of Homeland Security have no specific regulations banning pregnant foreigners from entering the United States. But officials say they can and do turn away pregnant women with obvious designs on coming to the United States to take advantage of free medical care.

tazzygirl -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 11:52:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jack8007 Who is "we"? And what is "amnesty"? The GOP has made it pretty clear that they're going to try to obstruct as much as they can, as long as they can, even if it makes them look like children - when voters are pissed off, they'll vote for children - and Obama has made it clear that he's not going to rock any boats. So the answer is pretty much No. "WE" as in the US. 2007 was the last attempt. Bush was pushing for amnesty. So what you are saying is the GOP is once again the party of "no", even in spite of sponsoring an amnesty bill before. You are right, they are coming across as childish.

rulemylife -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 11:57:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I am not saying women come to this country pregnant, in fact, most of the births to illegal mothers happen a year or more after they get here. But why are we giving a legal claim to those who have committed a crime? We aren't. The child born here is guilty of no crime and has every right to citizenship by that holy document that gives us our rights. So unless you are willing to blaspheme our "founding fathers" by amending this sacred text then little Juan or Juanita is indeed an American citizen.

KenDckey -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 11:57:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: KenDckey And Joe, I am not complaining I got stopped. I violated the law. Even tho I did it inadvertently. So isn't a problem as far as I am concerned. you seem to be upset at it tho. You were speeding in the first place. You were breaking the law, and not holding yourself accountable. If your going to state illegal immigrants have to be held accountable for the law, then its reaonable to assume the person calling for such action obeys...ALL...the laws (not just the ones he wants to obey). Joe I am agreeing that I should have been stopped even tho I addicentally broke the law. Please explain how in the world I am not holding myself accountable? I gotta hear this nonsense

tazzygirl -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 11:59:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I am not saying women come to this country pregnant, in fact, most of the births to illegal mothers happen a year or more after they get here. But why are we giving a legal claim to those who have committed a crime? We aren't. The child born here is guilty of no crime and has every right to citizenship by that holy document that gives us our rights. So unless you are willing to blaspheme our "founding fathers" by amending this sacred text then little Juan or Juanita is indeed an American citizen. And im saying it shouldnt be so. The founding fathers had no notions of the problems we face today. To say they wanted this would require a knowledge they didnt possess and an understanding of the world of today they could not possibly forsee.

rulemylife -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 12:09:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I am not saying women come to this country pregnant, in fact, most of the births to illegal mothers happen a year or more after they get here. But why are we giving a legal claim to those who have committed a crime? We aren't. The child born here is guilty of no crime and has every right to citizenship by that holy document that gives us our rights. So unless you are willing to blaspheme our "founding fathers" by amending this sacred text then little Juan or Juanita is indeed an American citizen. And im saying it shouldnt be so. The founding fathers had no notions of the problems we face today. To say they wanted this would require a knowledge they didnt possess and an understanding of the world of today they could not possibly forsee. Which leads to the question of why so many who are upset with illegal immigration cite the Constitution when the Constitution says nothing about it.

popeye1250 -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 12:16:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Illegal aliens are only supposed to get, "emergency care only." Child birth is not "emergency care." They're not supposed to get admitted to a hospital. Or to get treatment for cancer, dialysis, or other medical procedures. And hospital personel are not "law enforcers" when they report an illegal alien anymore than anyone in here who calls the police when they see someone breaking into their neighbor's house. You're "reporting" a crime not "enforcing" the law. Big differance there! As long as you keep "giving" things to illegal aliens you'll get,.....more illegal aliens. It's odd that some people think that another "amnesty" will solve this problem. We've had what, eight "amnesties" so far? Illegals simply think they can sneak in and wait for the "next" amnesty." What if the congress just decided to provide medical care for.....Brazil? Instead of for the 50 million U.S. Citizens who don't have any? No hospital will turn away a woman in labor. It is considered an emergency case, regardless of how YOU view it. The anti-dumping laws ensure that treatment. Dialysis is a life saving treatment... many hospitals have their own dialysis units in house for emergent cases. There are also many charities closely working with hospitals to cover expenses such as cancer, dialysis, strokes and even childbirth. quote: What if the congress just decided to provide medical care for.....Brazil? Instead of for the 50 million U.S. Citizens who don't have any? Why not? We already pay for the health care, through the war funds, for Iraq and Afghanistan. http://www.blogcdn.com/www.gadling.com/media/2007/07/healthcareworldbig.jpg http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-dorlester/guaranteed-health-care-in_b_280528.html Tazzy, I don't know about yours but none of my grandparents were born in hospitals. I don't even know if they had any hospitals in Sligo or Donegal Ireland in the late 1800's. And childbirth is not an "emergency" it's a natural occurance. Look at all the Midwives there are today. As for dialysis or any other medical procedure U.S. Citizens shouldn't have to pay for anything for illegal aliens. They're not supposed to be in the country.

luckydawg -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 12:19:41 PM)
Give a single example of one doing so.... RML? Do you really think the founding fathers had anything to do with the 14th amendment passed in 1868.

rulemylife -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 12:23:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg Give a single example of one doing so.... RML? Do you really think the founding fathers had anything to do with the 14th amendment passed in 1868. I didn't say anything about the founding fathers, I just referenced the Constitution, amendments and all.

popeye1250 -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 12:30:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydawg Give a single example of one doing so.... RML? Do you really think the founding fathers had anything to do with the 14th amendment passed in 1868. LD, as everyone knows the 14 th Amendment was put in place to give full citizenship to freed slaves not as some type of "loophole" for foreign nationals to get U.S. Citizenship for their offspring after they've snuck in. Good point about the founding fathers. And I bet that if there were a reward for turning in illegals at hospitals, say $50 per head there'd be a whole new attitude about it! "Let's see, the BMW payment is $350 so.......that's seven pumpkinheads and I've made my car payment this month."

DomYngBlk -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 1:26:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jack8007 the reality is, all of life is a trade-off between what we want, and what we can support. Nixon sold the Republicans' soul to the devil with his "southern strategy", knowing that was the place it was easiest to sell stupidity. Beginning with Reagan, one of the Republicans' guiding principles has been their pride in refusing to think ahead, and insistence on that no brains are needed, and the Hollywood principle that perception is reality. Now the Republicans cannot break loose from Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin - those easily control half the votes - and Beck & Palin would be nowhere without the Wall Street (Fox, Koch etc) money that gets them an audience. Wall Street is understandably looking for one thing only, to preserve the next quarter's profits, and the hell with anything else, including you. There you go again.....using common sense

DomYngBlk -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 1:28:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Illegal aliens are only supposed to get, "emergency care only." Child birth is not "emergency care." They're not supposed to get admitted to a hospital. Or to get treatment for cancer, dialysis, or other medical procedures. And hospital personel are not "law enforcers" when they report an illegal alien anymore than anyone in here who calls the police when they see someone breaking into their neighbor's house. You're "reporting" a crime not "enforcing" the law. Big differance there! As long as you keep "giving" things to illegal aliens you'll get,.....more illegal aliens. It's odd that some people think that another "amnesty" will solve this problem. We've had what, eight "amnesties" so far? Illegals simply think they can sneak in and wait for the "next" amnesty." What if the congress just decided to provide medical care for.....Brazil? Instead of for the 50 million U.S. Citizens who don't have any? No hospital will turn away a woman in labor. It is considered an emergency case, regardless of how YOU view it. The anti-dumping laws ensure that treatment. Dialysis is a life saving treatment... many hospitals have their own dialysis units in house for emergent cases. There are also many charities closely working with hospitals to cover expenses such as cancer, dialysis, strokes and even childbirth. quote: What if the congress just decided to provide medical care for.....Brazil? Instead of for the 50 million U.S. Citizens who don't have any? Why not? We already pay for the health care, through the war funds, for Iraq and Afghanistan. http://www.blogcdn.com/www.gadling.com/media/2007/07/healthcareworldbig.jpg http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-dorlester/guaranteed-health-care-in_b_280528.html Tazzy, I don't know about yours but none of my grandparents were born in hospitals. I don't even know if they had any hospitals in Sligo or Donegal Ireland in the late 1800's. And childbirth is not an "emergency" it's a natural occurance. Look at all the Midwives there are today. As for dialysis or any other medical procedure U.S. Citizens shouldn't have to pay for anything for illegal aliens. They're not supposed to be in the country. So just let them die? Aren't you one of those christian nutbag, teabaggers?......Which bible are you reading.

jack8007 -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 2:17:49 PM)
quote: What violation? There is no violation. Its perfectly legal. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Misrepresenting their purpose in coming to the USA is illegal, I think. See 8 USC 1182(a)(6)(C).

jack8007 -> RE: Arizona is at it again (2/15/2011 2:46:28 PM)
Given that over half the voters are women, I don't think you're going to get anywhere with the idea that childbirth should be for example in the backseat of a car rather than the ER. I suppose you'd want to charge them parking, too. Let's back up a second before we try to blame some orange-sellers for all our problems. As others point out, most of them come specifically to work - and they get hired because corporate entrepreneurs want to make money passing along savings to you - and by & large, that's what happens - oh sure the Republican CEOs make sure they get a big cut, but you aren't screwed near as bad as the mojado is. Most economists acknowledge that the economics of it are somewhere between a wash and unknowable - so what it gets back to is, who do you want to blame for the nation's problems? I realize that the Mexican cartels, government and wetbacks generally are obviously responsible for us being in 2 wars that nobody thought thru, and don't forget they also melted down Wall Street, and torched Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac (because they hate Muricans) and Osama bin Laden was really born in Mexico, and he was really Pancho Villa's grandson, eh? OK, so that's exaggeration for those who can't figure it out. But the point here is that no law is going to save you from having to make choices and live with them, and you could do a whole lot worse than judging people on their merits, rather than their parents or place of birth.

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