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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 5:27:47 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Nothing new about Curveball though, I can recall reading posts saying he wasnt telling the truth as long as four years ago on here. I guess the Republicans kept quiet, since they thought it might lose them the 2008 election, ironic huh.


It is new.

While it was long-suspected this is the first time he has admitted he lied.

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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 5:29:34 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Nothing new about Curveball though, I can recall reading posts saying he wasnt telling the truth as long as four years ago on here. I guess the Republicans kept quiet, since they thought it might lose them the 2008 election, ironic huh.


It is new.

While it was long-suspected this is the first time he has admitted he lied.



Point taken about his admission. I was going more along the lines of the security services didnt think he was telling the truth.

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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 6:19:27 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

As an independent I have said since the beginning that it was BS, and there was no proven reason we should be there. In fact I challenged many people to look deeper into http://www.newamericancentury.org/ , and discover for themselves some of the reasons for our foreign policies at the time, and even today.



It was a neo-con goal since the end of the Gulf War.

It's not a coincidence that Wolfowitz and Libby ended up in the Bush Administration.

September 11th was just  a convenient excuse.



January 22, 2001 and After: Neoconservatives Begin Push for Invasion of Iraq

An orchestrated push in the media begins to make the case for the need to invade Iraq. The San Diego Union-Tribune reprints a Weekly Standard article by William Kristol and Robert Kagan that tells readers (after comparing President Bush favorably to Ronald Reagan, Dwight D. Eisenhower, and Harry Truman, and lauding Bush’s “steely determination”) that US military action “could well be necessary to bring Saddam down.”

They write: “At some point, Bush could well find himself confronted by an Iraq armed with weapons of mass destruction. During these past few years, it was relatively easy for congressional Republicans to call for arming and funding the Iraqi opposition. That remains a good idea. But the more sober of Bush’s advisers, like Robert Zoellick and Paul Wolfowitz (see February 18, 1992 and February 27, 2001), have recognized that this alone will not do the trick.

Some use of American military force, both from the air and on the ground, could well be necessary to bring Saddam down, no matter how wonderfully the Iraqi opposition performs. Whether he chooses it or not, Bush may quickly be faced with the same decision his father had to make in 1990. He has in his cabinet at least one person who counseled inaction the last time [referring to Secretary of State Colin Powell].

If the crisis comes, Bush, like his father, will not be able to rely only on the judgment of the men and women around him: He will have to act from his own instincts and his own courage.” [Weekly Standard, 1/22/2001; Unger, 2007, pp. 206] In the coming weeks, an onslaught of print and television op-eds and commentaries, some from Bush administration officials, will advocate the overthrow of Hussein (see February 27, 2001, February 16, 2001, April 9, 2001, and July 30, 2001).

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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 7:56:43 AM   
Moonhead


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Powell did come across as about the only member of Bush's cabinet with any balls, even if the twat was involved in fundraising for noraid.

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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 8:13:35 AM   
DomYngBlk


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When did he have balls? He had the truth in front of him and still lied....

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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 8:23:46 AM   
Moonhead


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When he got fed up of being a tokenist gesture and quit, obviously.
(Also, didn't he suggest shooting down a couple of airliners in 2001?)

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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 8:37:16 AM   
RacerJim


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WikiLeaks de facto declassification of privileged material makes it case closed: Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction

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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 8:39:53 AM   
mnottertail


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LOL, you go!!!!!  Now there is a dedicated nutsucker.

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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 8:41:42 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

When he got fed up of being a tokenist gesture and quit, obviously.
(Also, didn't he suggest shooting down a couple of airliners in 2001?)


Put his finger in the air and felt the wind shift. He quit. Did he do anything to stop the fucking debacle of Iraq or Afghanistan? No, to me, he is a coward

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 8:41:45 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

WikiLeaks de facto declassification of privileged material makes it case closed: Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction

The ones he used on the Kurds, you mean?
Fuck all evidence of him having any more in working order lying around has emerged. Perhaps you could provide a link to the documents in question?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 8:42:52 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

When he got fed up of being a tokenist gesture and quit, obviously.
(Also, didn't he suggest shooting down a couple of airliners in 2001?)


Put his finger in the air and felt the wind shift. He quit. Did he do anything to stop the fucking debacle of Iraq or Afghanistan? No, to me, he is a coward

Fair enough.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 11:18:59 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

WikiLeaks de facto declassification of privileged material makes it case closed: Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction


No kidding?

Care to provide any of those cases?  Or are you just running your mouth as usual?

Would any of those be similar to this?



WikiLeaks Show WMD Hunt Continued in Iraq


WikiLeaks’ massive trove of nearly 392,000 Iraq war logs are hundreds of references to chemical and biological weapons. Most of those are intelligence reports or initial suspicions of WMD that don’t pan out. In July 2004, for example, U.S. forces come across a Baghdad building with gas masks, gas filters, and containers with “unknown contents” inside. Later investigation revealed those contents to be vitamins.


It's truly sad that the conservative media outlets keep pushing this pathetic nonsense and even sadder that there are people who believe it.








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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 7:56:57 PM   
eihwaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
As an independent I have said since the beginning that it was BS, and there was no proven reason we should be there. In fact I challenged many people to look deeper into http://www.newamericancentury.org/ , and discover for themselves some of the reasons for our foreign policies at the time, and even today.

It was a neo-con goal since the end of the Gulf War.

It's not a coincidence that Wolfowitz and Libby ended up in the Bush Administration.

September 11th was just  a convenient excuse.


quote:


An orchestrated push in the media begins to make the case for the need to invade Iraq Iran. ... William Kristol and Robert Kagan [tell] readers (after comparing President Bush favorably to Ronald Reagan, Dwight D. Eisenhower, and Harry Truman, and lauding Bush’s “steely determination”) that US military action “could well be necessary to bring Saddam Ahmadinejad down.”

“At some point, Bush could well find himself confronted by an Iraq Iran armed with weapons of mass destruction. During these past few years, it was relatively easy for congressional Republicans to call for arming and funding the Iraqi Iranian opposition. That remains a good idea. But the more sober of Bush’s advisers, like Robert Zoellick and Paul Wolfowitz ... have recognized that this alone will not do the trick.

Some use of American military force, both from the air and on the ground, could well be necessary to bring Saddam Ahmadinejad down, no matter how wonderfully the Iraqi Iranian opposition performs...



< Message edited by eihwaz -- 2/17/2011 8:01:34 PM >

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 8:23:41 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eihwaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
As an independent I have said since the beginning that it was BS, and there was no proven reason we should be there. In fact I challenged many people to look deeper into http://www.newamericancentury.org/ , and discover for themselves some of the reasons for our foreign policies at the time, and even today.

It was a neo-con goal since the end of the Gulf War.

It's not a coincidence that Wolfowitz and Libby ended up in the Bush Administration.

September 11th was just  a convenient excuse.


quote:


An orchestrated push in the media begins to make the case for the need to invade Iraq Iran. ... William Kristol and Robert Kagan [tell] readers (after comparing President Bush favorably to Ronald Reagan, Dwight D. Eisenhower, and Harry Truman, and lauding Bush’s “steely determination”) that US military action “could well be necessary to bring Saddam Ahmadinejad down.”

“At some point, Bush could well find himself confronted by an Iraq Iran armed with weapons of mass destruction. During these past few years, it was relatively easy for congressional Republicans to call for arming and funding the Iraqi Iranian opposition. That remains a good idea. But the more sober of Bush’s advisers, like Robert Zoellick and Paul Wolfowitz ... have recognized that this alone will not do the trick.

Some use of American military force, both from the air and on the ground, could well be necessary to bring Saddam Ahmadinejad down, no matter how wonderfully the Iraqi Iranian opposition performs...



Terrific analysis eihwaz. It really is a case of just changing the nouns here and there isn't it?

After the insanity of the Falklands War, the Who produced a great song called "We won't be fooled again". Sadly they were wrong - Iraq etc etc.

Are we about to be fooled again?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/17/2011 8:49:46 PM >


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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 8:35:56 PM   
pogo4pres


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FR

Tweak, the Who recorded "Won't Get Fooled Again" in 1971 on their seminal album "Who's Next".  Along with the aforementioned tune Who's Next includes "Behind Blue Eyes", "Bargain",  "Baba O'Reilley", "The Song Is Over" and a wonderfully humorous ditty by the late great John Entwistle titled "My Wife".

All were Major hits either in the UK or US, some were hits in both.

Musically,
Some Knucklehead in NJ


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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 8:36:26 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: eihwaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
As an independent I have said since the beginning that it was BS, and there was no proven reason we should be there. In fact I challenged many people to look deeper into http://www.newamericancentury.org/ , and discover for themselves some of the reasons for our foreign policies at the time, and even today.

It was a neo-con goal since the end of the Gulf War.

It's not a coincidence that Wolfowitz and Libby ended up in the Bush Administration.

September 11th was just  a convenient excuse.


quote:


An orchestrated push in the media begins to make the case for the need to invade Iraq Iran. ... William Kristol and Robert Kagan [tell] readers (after comparing President Bush favorably to Ronald Reagan, Dwight D. Eisenhower, and Harry Truman, and lauding Bush’s “steely determination”) that US military action “could well be necessary to bring Saddam Ahmadinejad down.”

“At some point, Bush could well find himself confronted by an Iraq Iran armed with weapons of mass destruction. During these past few years, it was relatively easy for congressional Republicans to call for arming and funding the Iraqi Iranian opposition. That remains a good idea. But the more sober of Bush’s advisers, like Robert Zoellick and Paul Wolfowitz ... have recognized that this alone will not do the trick.

Some use of American military force, both from the air and on the ground, could well be necessary to bring Saddam Ahmadinejad down, no matter how wonderfully the Iraqi Iranian opposition performs...



Terrific analysis. It really is a case of just changing the nouns here and there isn't it?

After the insanity of the Falklands War, the Who produced a great song called "We won't be fooled again". Sadly they were wrong - Iraq etc etc.

Are we about to be fooled again?

UMMMM tweak.... "Wont get fooled again" was recorded a decade before the Falklands war.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 8:55:07 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: eihwaz

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
As an independent I have said since the beginning that it was BS, and there was no proven reason we should be there. In fact I challenged many people to look deeper into http://www.newamericancentury.org/ , and discover for themselves some of the reasons for our foreign policies at the time, and even today.

It was a neo-con goal since the end of the Gulf War.

It's not a coincidence that Wolfowitz and Libby ended up in the Bush Administration.

September 11th was just  a convenient excuse.


quote:


An orchestrated push in the media begins to make the case for the need to invade Iraq Iran. ... William Kristol and Robert Kagan [tell] readers (after comparing President Bush favorably to Ronald Reagan, Dwight D. Eisenhower, and Harry Truman, and lauding Bush’s “steely determination”) that US military action “could well be necessary to bring Saddam Ahmadinejad down.”

“At some point, Bush could well find himself confronted by an Iraq Iran armed with weapons of mass destruction. During these past few years, it was relatively easy for congressional Republicans to call for arming and funding the Iraqi Iranian opposition. That remains a good idea. But the more sober of Bush’s advisers, like Robert Zoellick and Paul Wolfowitz ... have recognized that this alone will not do the trick.

Some use of American military force, both from the air and on the ground, could well be necessary to bring Saddam Ahmadinejad down, no matter how wonderfully the Iraqi Iranian opposition performs...



Terrific analysis. It really is a case of just changing the nouns here and there isn't it?

After the insanity of the Falklands War, the Who produced a great song called "We won't be fooled again". Sadly they were wrong - Iraq etc etc.

Are we about to be fooled again?

UMMMM tweak.... "Wont get fooled again" was recorded a decade before the Falklands war.

Ooops! sorry about the dates folks. I wasn't even a tweak or a twinkle in someone's eyes in 1971!

The point still stands IMHO - we, the West, were involved in a war in Iraq under totally false pretences. Despite an exhaustive search, the alleged WMDs were never found and it's agreed nowadays they were non-existent in the first place.

Are we about to have a repeat performance?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/17/2011 9:00:36 PM >


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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 8:57:18 PM   
Hillwilliam


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I agree totally with your assertion that we invaded Iraq under false pretenses, tweak.

When dubya was inaugurated, I told several friends that he would find some pretense to invade Iraq because he had a hardon for Hussein.

Unfortunately, I was right.

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RE: Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war - 2/17/2011 9:29:24 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
Anyone still in denial that Washington was aware that Curveball was considered a liar might like to hear what the then German Foreign Minister has to say on the subject:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/17/curveball-doubts-cia-german-foreign

He makes it very clear that the highest levels of US administration were made aware of serious doubts over Curveball's credibility. Bush and his neo-con pals chose to believe this tainted evidence because they wanted to.

The rest of us knew there was going to be an US-led invasion of Iraq for over a year before it finally happened. I fear the signs are there that the same discredited fraudulent strategy is going to be deployed in relation to Iran. With the same or even far worse outcomes.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/17/2011 9:31:17 PM >


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