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RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 4:24:51 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		You seem unable to process info in a linear fashion.
But I'll try one more time.
1.You wrote: "Collective Bargainin *IS* one of those important corner stones that make up the concept of a union. "
2. I proved that it wasn't.
3. You admitted it wasn't, as you argued that I'm wrong.

You can make the argument that you believe it's necessary for this or that kind of economy, or for a certain desired result, perhaps some kind of "economic justice". You can argue that collective bargaining is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and better than electrified nipple nipple clamps and a Kalis Teeth Bracelet, but it's just stupid to argue that it's a "cornerstone in the concept of a (political/economic) union".

Is English not your first language?


_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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Profile   Post #: 381
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 4:30:14 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
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quote:

Walker still insists on stripping them of their right to bargain collectively.


No such provision exists in any bill proposed.
quote:

Walker still insists on stripping them of their right to bargain collectively.


_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 382
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 5:14:51 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

Why would it be elitist to point out that a job that requires a college degree pays less than a job that requires an 8th grade education?

Yes, I DO think that a job that requires a degree should pay more than one that can be filled by a HS dropout. Maybe if this happened more, people would have more incentive to take advantage of their opportunities for a FREE education.

As for it being hazardous, teach in an inner city school once.

Just... wow. Did you actually look at the link I provided? Those 'garbage men' that you so easily dismiss as uneducated and undeserving of good pay do a very necessary job that is not only physically difficult and thoroughly unpleasant, but constantly ranks as one of the top 10 most dangerous jobs in this country. Want to guess what one of the safest jobs is?

FYI: 25-35 of every 100,000 'garbage men' die on the job, which is far more than firemen or police officers; compared to .3 of every 100,000 teachers who die on the job (do the math). I guess, per you, the huge differential in risk of death shouldn't figure into their pay, since most don't have a degree. The same should apply to fishermen, most of whom have no degree, of course.

Obviously, there is nothing elitist in your position, my mistake.




I'm sorry about being 'elitist' I just had this idea that people who work harder on their education should be paid better than dropouts.

Hell, let's just all drop out in grade 6 and let the government feed us.

By the way, Commercial divers have higher fatality rates than garbage men and more physically demanding work. I know, I did it to pay my way thru grad school.

(in reply to WyldHrt)
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RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 5:16:41 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


What could a Canadian liberal possibly know about LEADERSHIP




Read what Arpig wrote: then  inwardly digest.
Then cast your  mind back to the fact that i am in fact english
have another pot shot and go jack off
Its all your brain can handle in one day



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(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 384
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 5:21:49 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		And in any case, the Canadian liberals had strong enough leadership to burn the white house a century or so back, didn't they?



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RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 5:53:46 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

Bull. There a few fields where the licensing requirements require such but most fields do not require state licensing.

You are wrong, but is that really any different than a company requiring its employees to take seminars and such to keep current in order to keep their postions? IMO, required 'continuing education' not uncommon in either the public or private sector.

I think you have no idea what it is you're claiming. In 2 decades of work post degree I've never been required to attend a seminar or the like and no company I've ever worked for or interviewed with had any such requirements. Neither have any company of any of my friends who are all college graduates and work for companies of various sizes and in various industries.
quote:

quote:

Confusion of expectation and outcome.

Since you seemed to be defending a standard with your post, the fact that said standard is not being met, in a big way, is pretty much relevant.
I never defended the standard. It is my opinion that the sorry outcomes are much more about the sorry standards and effort of the parents than anything having to do with teachers.
quote:

quote:

For someone with a math degree? It significantly below avergae. I stayed with a company I liked in the face of headhunters with much better offers.

And how many elementary or HS math teachers do you think actually have a BS in math?

In most parts of the US a math degree is required to teach math at the high school level. Education degrees are only enough to let you teach at the lower levels.
quote:

quote:

Good for Wisconsin. Most places that isn't remotely true.

Making generalizations without knowing the facts isn't really a good idea.

look up the class size limits in each state. You'll find many larger states allow 30 or more students per class.

(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 386
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 5:55:43 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

You seem unable to process info in a linear fashion.
But I'll try one more time.
1.You wrote: "Collective Bargainin *IS* one of those important corner stones that make up the concept of a union. "
2. I proved that it wasn't.
3. You admitted it wasn't, as you argued that I'm wrong.

You can make the argument that you believe it's necessary for this or that kind of economy, or for a certain desired result, perhaps some kind of "economic justice". You can argue that collective bargaining is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and better than electrified nipple nipple clamps and a Kalis Teeth Bracelet, but it's just stupid to argue that it's a "cornerstone in the concept of a (political/economic) union".

Is English not your first language?


You seem to have lapsed in your command of English. The original statement, obviously, meant labor union.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 387
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 6:01:22 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Walker still insists on stripping them of their right to bargain collectively.


No such provision exists in any bill proposed.
quote:

Walker still insists on stripping them of their right to bargain collectively.


ORLY?

What do you think the protests have been over?

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 388
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 6:16:28 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Walker still insists on stripping them of their right to bargain collectively.


No such provision exists in any bill proposed.





That's interesting.

It must be that one of us failed to read the original post, but I'm not going to say who.



Wisconsin Senate to vote on anti-union bill


MADISON, Wis. – Protesters clogged the hallways of the Wisconsin state Capitol on Thursday as the Senate prepared to pass a momentous bill that would strip government workers, including school teachers, of nearly all collective bargaining rights.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 389
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 6:28:24 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

And in any case, the Canadian liberals had strong enough leadership to burn the white house a century or so back, didn't they?



They certainly did, but we dont wanna give him an excuse for a hissy fit do we:)


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(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 390
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 6:33:00 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Wisconsin Senate to vote on anti-union bill


Let's see how Wisconsin feels when they're unable to attract teachers.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 391
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 6:44:48 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Not all teachers are whores doing it for money MM, Wisconsin schools would be doing good to shed  those who are shutting down the schools over a few dollars.

Think of the children


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 392
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 6:50:16 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Not all teachers are whores doing it for money MM, Wisconsin schools would be doing good to shed  those who are shutting down the schools over a few dollars.

Think of the children




You're correct to a point sanity but, let's say you are a top notch heavy equipment operator who absolutely LOVES running a dozer. Wisconsin offers you 40K/year and MN offers you 80K/year.

Cost of living is similar and winters suck both places.

Where ya gonna go?

The winters suck both places

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 393
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 6:53:39 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Its okay, arpig - I never expected that Canadians were capable of getting the joke either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

What could a Canadian liberal possibly know about LEADERSHIP
Actually quite a lot...we have several very qualified leaders to emulate
Pierre Trudeau
Lester Pearson
Sir Wilfred Laurier
William Lyon Mackenzie King
Jean Chretien

Not that I would expect you to know anything about them or why they could be considered to be great leaders, after all if they ain't murcan, they ain't real



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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Arpig)
Profile   Post #: 394
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 6:58:38 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Try to think logically, dont let MM's wild eyed preaching about doom and gloom affect your own sanity. With the average annual compensation in Wisconsin over 100k per teacher, and the governor only asking for a few pennies of that back in order to keep the state afloat I seriously doubt there will be any kind of substantial migration of teachers out of the cheese state. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You're correct to a point sanity but, let's say you are a top notch heavy equipment operator who absolutely LOVES running a dozer. Wisconsin offers you 40K/year and MN offers you 80K/year.

Cost of living is similar and winters suck both places.

Where ya gonna go?

The winters suck both places


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 395
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 7:00:41 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
A century or so back they werent the weak kneed crybabies they are today

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

And in any case, the Canadian liberals had strong enough leadership to burn the white house a century or so back, didn't they?




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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 396
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 7:07:19 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


A century or so back they werent the weak kneed crybabies they are today

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

And in any case, the Canadian liberals had strong enough leadership to burn the white house a century or so back, didn't they?





Speaking as an authoritative voice?  Considering you are the biggest crybaby on this forum.

The evil, mean liberals are just out to destroy your way of life, or so you keep telling us.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 397
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 7:07:37 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Most teachers that Ive known (whose most difficult task involves handing out standardized materials) wouldnt feel at all comfortable at the controls of a dozer. They would rather have their feet up on a desk with the newspaper and coffee right there in front of them

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You're correct to a point sanity but, let's say you are a top notch heavy equipment operator who absolutely LOVES running a dozer. Wisconsin offers you 40K/year and MN offers you 80K/year.

Cost of living is similar and winters suck both places.

Where ya gonna go?

The winters suck both places


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 398
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 7:12:09 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Try to think logically, dont let MM's wild eyed preaching about doom and gloom affect your own sanity. With the average annual compensation in Wisconsin over 100k per teacher, and the governor only asking for a few pennies of that back in order to keep the state afloat I seriously doubt there will be any kind of substantial migration of teachers out of the cheese state. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

You're correct to a point sanity but, let's say you are a top notch heavy equipment operator who absolutely LOVES running a dozer. Wisconsin offers you 40K/year and MN offers you 80K/year.

Cost of living is similar and winters suck both places.

Where ya gonna go?

The winters suck both places


I am thinking logically and you are refusing to answer a simple question.

By the way, that total compensation package is a joke if it's anything like Mine was. I dug it up and dusted it off. Wanna know what a part of it was?

DCPS had negotiated 25% off at Hertz for teachers.

On the assumption that every teacher would rent a full size car 2 weeks a year, that value was part of our "compensation package"
It was FULL of crap like that that cost the taxpayers ZERO but supposedly we were getting.
Wanna bet that 100K package the fat chick with the laptop was talking about was similar?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 399
RE: SCOTT WALKER for President - 2/20/2011 7:13:31 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Try to think logically, dont let MM's wild eyed preaching about doom and gloom affect your own sanity. With the average annual compensation in Wisconsin over 100k per teacher, and the governor only asking for a few pennies of that back in order to keep the state afloat I seriously doubt there will be any kind of substantial migration of teachers out of the cheese state. 


Uhhh........I posted the figures updated just a few months ago showing the average annual teacher's salary in Wisconsin was a little over $46,000.

So why don't you for once try to back up your bullshit with some documentation?






< Message edited by rulemylife -- 2/20/2011 7:15:11 AM >

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 400
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