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RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 6:00:28 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
I had one sub who could comfortably kneel for over an hour with knees together but with feet spread wide enough to place her butt cheeks on the floor.

I just tried that. I'm sending you the medical bill.


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 6:04:57 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

Hmm. I must admit, I did have the idea that it was easier for women to kneel that it was for men. They're more flexible and don't have such knobbly knees.

But this belief could be a sign of deep-rooted sexism on my part, possibly.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 6:07:22 PM   
Nanako


Posts: 222
Joined: 2/7/2011
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
Good subject. You might want to start with googling prepatellar bursitis (or housemaids knee) for some of the health part of the question.


now I'm scared ;-;
This doesn't look good, is there any way to avoid it? I find plenty of mention of "treatment" but none of "cure". It does seem to be possible to have surgery for it though, would that provide a permanant cure I wonder?


quote:

My days of kneeling are pretty much over. Those of us who were in gymnastics or rode a lot often have knee problems and I did both.

Oh no T_T
And there was me thinking that exercising throughout life might prevent issues later. Are you telling me it causes it, instead?
If I spend a lot of time kneeling am I doomed to have health problems? Would taking up gymnastics makeit worse? as that's something I've wanted to do for a while :(

quote:


and screwed my knees up when I was still pretty young and now, at 50, they are a mess.

How young are we talking, miss? What did you do to "screw them up" ? was it any specific incident?
what is meant now by "a mess". Do you have the aforementioned condition? Has a doctor mentioned any possible cure ?

quote:

I love it. I love the way it makes me feel.. small and vulnerable, transparent, open, shy. I wish I could be in that position much more frequently than I am.

Me too <3
But do you think it's worth it ?

quote:

You can also try googling for some exercises to keep your knees supple and flexible if it appeals to you.

Now I'm very confused. I don't understaaand. T_T

Is exercising throughout life going to cause me health problems, or prevent them?
Is it different types of exercises for different purposes?

I mean no offence but your post has made me feel like a rabbit caught in headlights ;-;


< Message edited by Nanako -- 2/19/2011 7:03:17 PM >

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 6:15:18 PM   
Nanako


Posts: 222
Joined: 2/7/2011
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i like kneeling =) i love the symbolism of it, and the way it feels; it's relaxing, and it also helps me focus, if i want to maintain a headspace.
i don't do a lot of it now because i'm not in a power exchange relationship now, but in my previous one, i would kneel for a variety of reasons, though not super often -- he wasn't too big on protocol and such.


Me too, I love it ^_^, although this thread is doing a great deal to dispel those feelings. I'm now rather worried about kneeling :(


quote:

4. i've never really had problems with kneeling. for me, the most awkward part is getting up. are you a member of submissiveguide, by any chance? there was a writing there about different ways to kneel, different ways to put your feet, graceful ways to get up, etc.
some people kneel and kick their lower legs out to the side, like casually sitting on your knees. for some it's less painful, and that style of kneel can be easier to get back up out of, too.

I'm not a member. Should I be? Are you allowed to say that? I often notice people self censoring when talking about fetlife and similar, and I wonder if CM has some draconian policy against "advertising other sites". Maybe we should discuss that matter in private :/

quote:

There are a variety of stretches you can use for these -- hop on google and poke around. i've always been pretty flexible and thanks to belly dance and yoga, i dont have a lot of flexibility problems, but i know plenty of people who do.


I'm too scared to do stretches now ;-;
I feel rather apprehensive about doing anything but sitting still (and even then I'm scared I'm doing it wrong), at least until I have a knowledgeable answer to previous questions on the subject

quote:

also, kneeling mats are EASY to make if you've got a sewing machine, a square of fabric and something heavy/durable for the bottom side, and some polyfil. they take like 10 minutes, and can really save your knees, especially when kneeling on less than ideal surfaces.
is it the knee itself that needs cushioning? is there any need to cushiion the ankle, or the rest of the lower leg?



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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 6:16:41 PM   
Nanako


Posts: 222
Joined: 2/7/2011
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I'm 56 years old. Of course it's painful and I can't do it for long periods. If we're watching tv and he decides he wants a blow job then I get a couple of thick pillows to cushion my knees. Otherwise, I just sit on the floor cross legged instead. If I kneel for more than a few minutes then I can't stand back up, he has to haul me up and I'll be in a lot of pain until I can walk again.


Can you tell us anything about your background with regards to athletics, exercise, and longterm kneeling ? Is it merely age that's causing these issues, or what you've done specifically with those 56 years ?

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RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 7:53:23 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanako

now I'm scared ;-;
This doesn't look good, is there any way to avoid it? I find plenty of mention of "treatment" but none of "cure". It does seem to be possible to have surgery for it though, would that provide a permanant cure I wonder?


Great questions for your doctor. :D


quote:


And there was me thinking that exercising throughout life might prevent issues later. Are you telling me it causes it, instead?
If I spend a lot of time kneeling am I doomed to have health problems? Would taking up gymnastics makeit worse? as that's something I've wanted to do for a while :(


Gymnastics can damage the knees because of the hard landings. Your knees absorb all the impact of your dismount so that's a combination of gravity plus your own weight going on to your knees. The human body just wasn't designed for that particular manuever and when you practice 4 or 5 hours a day, that's a lot of landings. Same with horse racing. All the pressure is on the knees because you actually hold yourself up out of the saddle so the weight and movement is all impacted in that spot. I doubt if normal, every day exercise would impact the knees the same way but again, talk to your doc if you have concerns about it.

quote:




How young are we talking, miss? What did you do to "screw them up" ? was it any specific incident?
The first time I really screwed up my knee, I missed an eagle catch and landed in an awkward position that twisted my knee. I was about 15 or so when that happened. That coupled with years of riding and landings just caught up with me.

quote:

what is meant now by "a mess". Do you have the aforementioned condition? Has a doctor mentioned any possible cure ?


Eventually I will probably have to have at least my right knee replaced. By mess, I mean that I can't do *normal* every day activities with the ease of someone who doesn't have knee issues like climb stairs (or kneel!!) and stuff like that without some support. When it gets really bad, I do have a cane to use. One of the perks of being a toy collector.. I didn't have to go out and actually purchase one. hehe

quote:


Me too <3
But do you think it's worth it ?


Hmm.. hindsight. Would I have given up horseback riding and competitive gymnastics so that I could kneel easier now.. hmm.. No, I don't think so. I loved those, too and I loved the competition, the way my body obeyed my commands and the affinity I had with my horses. I can't change my past and given the option, I doubt I would if I could. Might be someone else entirely if even one thing changed and I rather like how I have turned out despite the ravages of older age. :D I'll live with my choices and I might grumble a bit when stairs seem daunting but overall, life is pretty damn good where it's at and I have things that take precedence over my knees right now anyway.

quote:


Now I'm very confused. I don't understaaand.


Sorry. I didn't mean to confuse you. The nutshell is do your research then make your choices after you are armed with knowledge. Talk to your doctors, your friends and get a wide range of opinions, experiences and the like to have has much information as you can so that your choices are as informed as they can be.

quote:

Is exercising throughout life going to cause me health problems, or prevent them?


All things in moderation. It's the excess that generally will start to cause problems.. like landings in gymnastics. Most folks don't land off the balance beam onto their knees 50 times a day for 10 years. That's excess and that's what can cause some damage if you're not careful.. or, even if you are. You know what they say.. no risk, no reward and I find kneeling very rewarding so would take the risk for the benefit which I gain. That's just me. You may make different choices and that's okay.


quote:

I mean no offence but your post has made me feel like a rabbit caught in headlights ;-;



That's good, actually. Will probably make you do your homework and that's rarely a bad thing.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 10:40:48 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanako

How long ago are we talking, miss. and how long for ? :o
Would you recommend yoga as a good activity to take up for those seeking flexibility ?


Greetings,

He was quite the sadist and had some idea about diminishing my ego and delighted in my frustration. I was rather spoiled back then and preferred the lap to the floor. It was not a short stint.

As for yoga, I find it beneficial for many reasons. It promotes a kind of slowing that emphasizes stillness which is very helpful when you're on the kneel (figuratively and literally).

quote:

what about in his mind?


I have a penchant for attracting men that emphasize the same.

quote:

I don't suppose you might know an online resource of such positions?


You needn't be concerned. They're a friendly lot. Cuffmaster addresses the subject on his site and the second resource offers a description and illustration.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 11:22:53 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
I had one sub who could comfortably kneel for over an hour with knees together but with feet spread wide enough to place her butt cheeks on the floor.

I just tried that. I'm sending you the medical bill.


And you just know the cheque's already in the mail. Trust me....

I kid you not, that was her default and preferred method of watching tv etc, except with a throw cushion under her butt. Btw, her insteps lay flat on the floor in that position, too. Yousta creep me out at first, wondering if the sound of fracturing bones was imminent etc. Her mum says she's been sitting like that forever, yet she looked typically normal standing and walking etc. Was all in the joints, I guess....

Ahhhh, the good ol days.... She was absolutely the best to tie up, too. Could really bunch her up in a neat, taut package without causing discomfort. Stupid other issues.... *sigh*

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 11:35:39 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanako

quote:

prepatellar bursitis
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I had one sub who could comfortably kneel for over an hour with knees together but with feet spread wide enough to place her butt cheeks on the floor. I even tried it myself but had to conclude that even though females are generally more flexible than males, she was more rubber than bones and joints.... lol


Wow, that position hits the knee tendons pretty hard :(

I'm scared to do it without medical advice. I gave it a try and I couldn't get all the way down without feeling like I was going to break something ;-;


You don't need any medical advice to know your own individual limitations. Pain is the clue.... We're all the same species but we simply aren't all the same.

I read somewhere on a resource site that western women aren't so physically predisposed to kneeling for long periods as compared to Asians, for eg (the oriental variety, for lack of a better term). But those same Asians had difficulty in the elbow or shoulder joints when it came to arms bound behind. Dammit, it's too long ago now to remember the finer details....

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to Nanako)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Kneeling - 2/20/2011 2:19:16 AM   
petmonkey


Posts: 1053
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline 		i can't kneel for any length of time, really, not for a resting pose anyway.  Bad circulation, bad knees, bad ankles. i wish i could as it sounds like a pleasant thing to do. i can, however spend an in-ordinate amount of time in what is referred to in Yoga as "child's pose", for some reason stretching my body forward relieves whatever issues kneeling alone poses (heh).  
i'm okay sitting on a zafu, or sitting with my legs folded up to my chest.  This is an oft-preferred position when sitting on a floor (or even in a chair) for me.  It's not particularly "lady-like" but then, neither am i.

Past Dominants haven't been particularly specific about it nor were particularly interested in sitting me for display purposes--for themselves or others.  Being at hand and heeling immediately when called was more important than my resting position between moments of direct service. If a certain pose interfered with my being able to get up unaided and on my way, they would rather have had me fidgeting and slouching then pretty. 

If i did kneel temporarily it was to make it easier for them to put restraints on me, or helping them dress somehow, in which case, it was more about "the gaze" we were giving each other and their actions, not about my specific position.

That was them and that was then--who knows what the future holds.


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Be excellent to each other.


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RE: Kneeling - 2/20/2011 2:37:40 AM   
TotalDiscipline


Posts: 225
Joined: 5/5/2010
Status: offline 		I don't mind kneeling, but don't find it so special.
But someone kneeling is not persé submissive. Submission is in your heart/mind.
Kneeling is just an expression people connect to submission.

..and it is not something you need to worry about so much..as in practicing it.

( you can google for "position nadu" )
http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/positions/nadu.html

*sorry, saw that some questions were already answered....my explorere didn't show the second page of replies**

< Message edited by TotalDiscipline -- 2/20/2011 2:44:39 AM >

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Love is the law, love under will.

shorten your answers to the essence

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RE: Kneeling - 2/20/2011 3:12:39 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline 		i do alot of kneeling as part of my job, im a podiatrist and being on the ground, grovelling about is part of my day on a regular basis.  i had a patient whose knees were severely phucked because she'd been a cleaner in her youth and was on her knees alot scrubbing floors, she used to get really upset with me and warn me id have problems later in life.  its worth consideration i think, in terms of what we might be amassing for ourselves later on down the line.

i was born with a knee that pops out if i kneel in a certain way.  the only way to pop it back is to kick my lower leg forward - and that is complete and total agony. so im adept at kneeling in a way that doesnt mean the knee is bent completely back and that the weight of my body isnt pulling at the ligaments supporting my knee.  so i tend to sit on my heels until my toes complain or i lean forward a little until my hams complain or i spread my knees out and sit on my bum, which is the most comfy.

i do fidgit when i kneel but its never been a problem.  i sustain as long as i can and then change position.  im thinking that only a serious hardass would expect you to keep a stress position for so long that youre circulation and ultimately nerve supply gets cut off to such a degree that when you finally stand youre wobbling around like a new born giraffe.

i knew a guy who wanted me to learn all of the various positions of kneeling and greeting which was fine because they were never sustained for long anyway. 

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to TotalDiscipline)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Kneeling - 2/20/2011 6:23:24 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Kneeling is quite nice, I'm very comfortable doing it almost all of the time, mentally.......and it's a requirement sometimes, but the sentiment is actually much MORE of a requirement and more appreciated. My willingness to kneel is by far the greater thing.

Therefore, I don't care whether I can or cannot kneel for endless hours because my MIND CAN kneel for as long as it wants to...and it's my mind kneeling that matters.

M couldn't kneel for endless hours either, so he knows that, prettily D/s as it is, it's not going to make the slightest difference if I have to squidge over to the side , or shift into a cross-legged sit.

The kneel is just symbolic....just as many other things I do are.

When you get older, the wear and tear on your knees throughout your life will affect how comfy it is to do it. I can't say that I've ever considered that kneeling, per se, might be some health issue, I think that washing floors has had a far greater impact.....lol

I kneel because it's rather lovely in sentiment, it might mess my knees up if I had to kneel on hard floors continually FOR someone that insisted on it.......but hey, washing floors has had the same impact with less reward.......lol

I CAN do it, I'd just think I'd been a bit of a twit if I'd chosen someone for whom it was THAT big a deal.

agirl





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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Kneeling - 2/20/2011 6:36:33 AM   
txurinal


Posts: 209
Joined: 9/26/2009
Status: offline 		i see a MASTER occassionally and always kneel in HIS presence. i find it a natural position to be in and cannot imagine not kneeling in front of a DOMINANT. When owned, i was required to kneel whenever addressing my MASTERS.

Usually HE keeps me on my hands and knees or will have me lean forward so my head is touching the floor for discipline. However, i am getting older and cannot stay on my knees for a prolonged period. When servicing MASTER'S cock i usually start out on my knees but if HE wants extended service, i have to shift to sitting on the floor

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Kneeling - 2/20/2011 7:39:51 AM   
phoenixmoonn13


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/11/2010
Status: offline 		i have alwasy since childhood knelt or sat on teh floor my family always said why can ti sit on a chair tehy sued to think i made teh place look untidy.

i am now 50 and 4 years ago had half of my meniscus cartladge removed form my knew due to an accident it kept locking. it took me a while to get back comfy with kneeling. i couldnt kneel like the second picture on your first post. i kneel with my feet like in the other pictures. if hes sitting on teh couch then i sit next to him he llikes to have me close. if he is at the pc then i kneel on the floor till it gets too uncomfy then i sit however i feel comfy with, becuase i have knee problems i am free to choose when to switch unless i have done somthing or master decides that he doesnt want me to but he will tell me if this is the case. i can kneel for a couple of hours if i fidget a bit. but usually i am kneeling for about an hour at a time. if we are going to play or hes decided that i have to kneel then no matter how uncmfy i find it i have to stay but then i have to be in perfect posture so tends to hurt a lot soner, master will push the time i have to stay then but hes alwasy mindful of my knees.

i have tried using cushions etc but find the floor easiest.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Kneeling - 2/20/2011 7:46:58 AM   
phoenixmoonn13


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/11/2010
Status: offline
quote:

4. i've never really had problems with kneeling. for me, the most awkward part is getting up. are you a member of submissiveguide, by any chance? there was a writing there about different ways to kneel, different ways to put your feet, graceful ways to get up, etc.
some people kneel and kick their lower legs out to the side, like casually sitting on your knees. for some it's less painful, and that style of kneel can be easier to get back up out of, too.


i have given up on getting up gracefully i get up as best as i can usally usin masters knees as a leverage only becuase since my op i dont have as much power in them as i used to.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Kneeling - 2/20/2011 8:03:54 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		I am not into kneeling; never was something that was expected or needed.

Somehow, I managed to be submissive without it.

(in reply to phoenixmoonn13)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Kneeling - 2/20/2011 8:18:36 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		The only time he has me on my knees is to perform a certain task.
Other than that he takes pity on my poor aching, popping joints in my knees and shoulders.


_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Kneeling - 2/20/2011 8:28:25 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		if you have any worries about your joint health, by all means, speak with your doctor.
kneeling isn't the worst thing i've ever done to my knees;  marching band in high school wasn't all that nice to them either (especially when i lived out east and had a brief stint in a high-stepping band -- i HATE high-stepping, give me glide-stepping any day of the week).
so i've gotten a little problem with one of my knees, but i actually take osteo-biflex, which helps a lot! haha
it had gotten to a point where it was locking up or making level changes in dance REALLY hard, but osteo-biflex is some helpful stuff. i actually realized that i was more capable with levels than i previously thought, which really adds a nice layer to dance, but it also helps with basic everyday functionality.

and noooow to sign up for AARP. =p

(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Kneeling - 2/20/2011 12:04:00 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

i do alot of kneeling as part of my job, im a podiatrist and being on the ground, grovelling about is part of my day on a regular basis. 



My podiatrist sits on a low stool and has the clients sitting up high enough so he's at foot level.

No specific exercise history. Just gravity I guess.  My knees do hyperextend naturally which isn't good for me. But I've always lived in houses with stairs and just carrying kids, groceries, laundry and what not up and down repeatedly is enough stress on the joints.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 40
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