RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (Full Version)

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stellauk -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (3/1/2011 7:56:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

Is there a next step to personal change that influences that kind of change in the world?



I can give an example from late last year.. A day before Christmas there were Facebook appeals and I received e-mails with an execution alert concerning Kurdish student Habibollah Latifi who was scheduled to be hanged on Dec. 26 in Iran for 'moharebeh' (enmity with God). I know that there were a number of people sending e-mails to various people, politicians, ministers but also directly to the Iranian government. I know I spent most of Christmas Day writing e-mails to various people. I cannot even imagine how many others were also and what was happening diplomatically.

A few hours after the scheduled time for Latifi's execution it became known that the Iranian authorities had stayed the execution.

This is where I feel that next step is. You can change your way of thinking or attitudes or beliefs in a split second. That's all it takes. But then to actually bring about those changes in your behaviour and actions you usually need to interact with other people.

You can tell people things all you like, and if you're lucky they'll listen to you. But usually when you put yourself forward as an example, and stand up and show people they usually start paying attention.

And if you can be there for even one person, and help them overcome something or change their own circumstances, the world immediately becomes a better place.




LaTigresse -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (3/1/2011 8:00:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

That is just one example of how I personally, have not necessarily made peace with what exists, but by changing myself, feel I am changing the status quo.


Not to knock your example, because I think it is certainly a legitimate place to start; but, I’m wondering where the change actually occurs with that approach.

I could do as you suggest with a coworker of mine, and I suspect, it would get him to stop making racist comments, to some degree; either, all together; only in my presence; or, most likely, sometimes in my presence, with periodic reminders. My point is, it will influence his behavior, but I don’t think it will actually change him. In order for that to happen, he must do as you said, look in the mirror, and realize, what is really bothering him is a reflection of himself; the affects of what he sends out, as a result of his lack of willingness to accept his limits.

Is there a next step to personal change that influences that kind of change in the world?

I’m curious about your statement of hating bigots and prejudice; what causes you to feel so strongly about them?

Kim



I am going to answer from the bottom up. I hate it because I have been on the receiving end. I hate it because it is an attempt to remove an individual's value as a human being by lumping them in with preconceived, usually wildly incorrect, ideas. I hate it because it is such an easy and lazy trap to fall into. I hate it because it is a gang mentality that sucks insecure, uninformed people into the trap that are not necessarily bad people........just insecure and ignorant.

As for where the change occurs. It has been my experience that the people I have admired most in MY life, lead by example. They did not preach it, they simply lived it. They were/are people that other people admire and looked up to.

Consider the very basics of today's celebrity driven advertising. If the current biggest sports star wears Xbrand of sports apparel that is a boon for the brand. It is obvious that 'leading by example' works. If it didn't advertising wouldn't work.

I strive to be the best ME I can be. I already know I am a natural leader simply based upon my life experiences and the reactions I create in those around me. I have found that the more aggressive I am in trying to affect change in others, the more it has the opposite effect. Which is understandable, if you think about it.

However, if I become to them, a person they admire and respect.......and they see me living my standards, and constantly setting my own personal barre higher, perhaps it will inspire them to follow.

In addition, on the rare occasion when I feel the need to stand up and be more vocal or active, I get a better response. Hopefully because there has already been a foundation created. They know that if I am saying/doing something, it is a very big deal to me. It has more impact.

It works. I've seen it work. I've seen it change mindsets. And it has done so without creating more negativity.



cpK69 -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (3/5/2011 8:03:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

This is where I feel that next step is. You can change your way of thinking or attitudes or beliefs in a split second. That's all it takes. But then to actually bring about those changes in your behaviour and actions you usually need to interact with other people.



This, I’m noting, sometimes takes lots and lots of practice, reassessment, and more practice, just to get the idea to stick.

quote:

You can tell people things all you like, and if you're lucky they'll listen to you. But usually when you put yourself forward as an example, and stand up and show people they usually start paying attention.


Maybe ideas and opportunities for standing up become more obvious, the more successful a person becomes with practicing?

quote:

And if you can be there for even one person, and help them overcome something or change their own circumstances, the world immediately becomes a better place.


I think, for now, I’ll stick with practicing in my immediate environment. I have a pretty good grasp on my new perspective, but can see, I have more to do in working through habits that are part of the old. In the mean time, I’ll be considering possibilities for the future.

Thank you for sharing your example.

Kim



cpK69 -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (3/5/2011 8:05:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am going to answer from the bottom up. I hate it because I have been on the receiving end. I hate it because it is an attempt to remove an individual's value as a human being by lumping them in with preconceived, usually wildly incorrect, ideas. I hate it because it is such an easy and lazy trap to fall into. I hate it because it is a gang mentality that sucks insecure, uninformed people into the trap that are not necessarily bad people........just insecure and ignorant.



I apreciate your honesty. Thank you.

I don’t mean to imply that I think leading by example doesn’t work at all. I suspect results vary depending on technique, the individual(s) involved, and to some degree, the new perspective being presented.

I agree that aggression tends to have adverse affects, and that preaching is often a repellent; fortunately, I wasn’t advocating either of those. I wasn’t even suggesting assertiveness, though, I agree here, as well, it has it’s time and place, and is likely to be most effective when used infrequently.

I’m having a hard time relating the celebrity advertising analogy to ‘leading by example’; my mind can’t get past the idolizing of celebrities by popular opinion, and the manipulating nature of advertising. However, word of mouth is a type of advertising I could work with, and I wouldn’t advise underestimating the contagiousness of an idea, when it is relevant to large numbers of people.

What isn’t clear to me, yet, is how to relay a fairly complex idea, simply by behaving according to my changed perception. I’ll think on it some more.

Kim



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