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Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/25/2011 6:13:48 PM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
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Status: offline 		Do you think Dominance and leadership come together, or do you think you can excel at one without excelling at the other? Do you think these are learned skills? What do you think of the concept of a natural leader/natural Dominant? Are leadership skills important to your brand of Dominance? How do these things intertwine and work for you in your relationships/life?

------

on the "F-site which shall not be named" a friend posted that he believed people are born with a desire to lead/dominate, but not inborn skills for it. i guess you learn constructive ways to express each, or you learn which techniques make you a more effective leader.
just something i've been thinking about since reading the friend's post, and thought i'd drag it over here for all you snazzy people to comment on.
For me, i see them as two sides of the same coin, though i can think of all sorts of times when i was a leader of something, even though i'm submissive. There are actually a lot of submissive women who end up in charge of things, so i can see that leadership and Dominance don't ALWAYS come together.


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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/25/2011 6:20:16 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Any smart person knows that at times, they have to take charge even if they don't want to. You do what's necessary to get the needed results. The fact that we step up to the plate to see that things get done doesn't have anything to do with it. It doesn't automatically mean you're a great leader, just that you're more pro-active than anyone else.

I'm submissive and I'm also a parent. I do what's necessary to get my kids to succeed. Doesn't make me a great leader or a natural dominant, just a dedicated mother.

And yes, most people lack the necessary skills to be good leaders. Has to do with learning from experience and having the right experience to learn the right things from, as well as being smart enough to learn them. But then, most people lack the necessary skills to be good in anything in my experience and very jaundiced view.


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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/25/2011 6:23:56 PM   
FukinTroll


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From: Under a bridge
Status: offline 		Hmmm.... muh luvly lil strumpet, you raise yet another yummy topic.

I am very dominant, have very good leadership skills, am smarter than the average bear and my ability to reason through problems is off the charts. Now for the other shoe, most of the time I prefer to leave people to their own devices providing they are not fukin up my picnic. As I have said a time or two before, ignorance can be educated but stupid is forever... sometimes I just let nature deal with the free ranged stupid cuz the ignorant, less learned or unaware, tend to follow me as the path of least resistance/greater reward for energy expended.

Most people are predictable as predictable can be, and when you get a group of them together almost any situation can turn comical as they give their best effort... it is the greatest show on my tv. However when it comes down to the shit getting done I step up and lay it on the table. People listen cuz when I chime in, my hat is full. Sure I would rather watch the natural order of life and death dwindle the group into a manageable herd, but sometimes you have to preserve the stupid... I think it is a federal thing... but sometimes there is that one person that is just too stoopid to live and he/she starts walking backwards, bitching up a storm, hands flying here and there to emphasize their point and nature takes over... the 5:30 bus ends the argument.

So... I think leadership and dominance is very integrated, however I feel that a lot of D's just rather see what happens at 5:30.

YMMV
SLURP~


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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/25/2011 6:37:21 PM   
OsideGirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
a friend posted that he believed people are born with a desire to lead/dominate, but not inborn skills for it.
This pretty much what I believe. You can have dominant personality, but being a Dominant is a learned skill. Being an alpha is a personality trait, but leadership is learned. No one is naturally A submissive or naturally A dominant.

I've met many people with dominant personalties that are poor decision makers. So, no being one doesn't automatically mean that you're also the other.

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/25/2011 6:37:41 PM   
littlewonder


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Status: offline 		I know quite a few dominant people but very few who can lead. They both don't always go hand in hand. This is why many times I refer to the fact that what I always sought in a man was a dominant personality man with leadership abilities.

Leadership is the one thing that I need because I hate to lead and like men who are strong enough, confident enough to have those kinds of skills. It works out quite well for us.

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/25/2011 7:06:12 PM   
LillyBoPeep


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I know quite a few dominant people but very few who can lead. They both don't always go hand in hand. This is why many times I refer to the fact that what I always sought in a man was a dominant personality man with leadership abilities.



same here; i've been stressing that a lot lately due to feeling like something's always missing or coming up short.
it's easy to see the overlap; it's harder to see where the two things diverge...


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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/25/2011 9:52:40 PM   
NihilusZero


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In terms of WIITWD, the two overlapping can often seem incidental. From there, things get more complicated.

The perception of competent leadership is entirely subjective to the person perceiving. Despite the fact that it should conceivably fall onto a simple equation (percentage of decisions made that yielded the desired result), people can conflate "dominance" (see: assertiveness, boisterousness, aggression, boldness) with the ability to adequately assess situations and determine the best path.

The skill sets involved in BDSM are typically tactile. Those involved in leadership are typically psychological. Presuming one will exist because the other is present is a touch of folly.

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/26/2011 12:48:51 AM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

Do you think Dominance and leadership come together, or do you think you can excel at one without excelling at the other? Do you think these are learned skills? What do you think of the concept of a natural leader/natural Dominant? Are leadership skills important to your brand of Dominance? How do these things intertwine and work for you in your relationships/life?


Greetings,

I have encountered many men that call themselves dominant, but the majority do not embody the leadership skills I find necessary for effective personnel management. Notice the emphasis on yours truly. For someone else they could be more than enough. I could care less what he calls himself or the credentials he references with pride. At the end of the day I have one concern - is he my complement?

In terms of natural leadership, I think along these lines. An individual that has been blessed with a talent or natural ability in an area benefits significantly from further instruction. They're working within their element and the progression is markedly different from one who's going against the grain. That doesn't suggest he cannot excel, but he'll have to put in a concerted effort to receive similar results. Being in possession of leadership skills is one portion of the equation. Knowing when and how to use them is another matter altogether.

The failure to grasp this philosophy often results in excessive heavy handedness, inconsistency, and an over dependence on outside perspectives. Wise leaders use reputable sources to augment their deficiencies. It is part of his arsenal and something he doesn't undertake without sincere thought beforehand. When considering prospects, I look to individuals that are leaders rather than self professed dominants. I'm looking for an man with architectural skills that can take a project from the conceptual stage to its conclusion. I will not subject myself to anyone that does not exercise sound leadership in their lives. I cannot be their makeshift guinea pig. Experience is paramount.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/26/2011 2:31:46 AM   
TotalDiscipline


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

Do you think Dominance and leadership come together, or do you think you can excel at one without excelling at the other? Do you think these are learned skills? What do you think of the concept of a natural leader/natural Dominant? Are leadership skills important to your brand of Dominance? How do these things intertwine and work for you in your relationships/life?



There is a difference between Dominance outside the lifestyle and inside.
It is pretty complex.
For my work I have to lead, guide, train and correct. Not sure if I do this the same way as in the lifestyle.
I am ofcourse the same person private and at work, just my goals are different.

Besides that...in the lifestyle every one can see himself as leader or dominant. At a job, you know soon enough if you are or not.
But..on the other side....in the lifestyle...you audience you need to satisfy is smaller. If 1 or 2 persons see you as dominant, you are ok.



< Message edited by TotalDiscipline -- 2/26/2011 2:51:56 AM >

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/26/2011 7:20:35 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		They come together for Me, but I'm not every Dominant.  I absolutely believe that you can excel in leadership in certain areas of your life (i.e. work) and not be Dominant in your personal life.  The same holds true the other way around.  A person might be a Dominant in their dynamic but may not display leadership skills in any other area of their life. 

I do believe that there is a quality that some folks are born with that gives them the inclination to be a good leader.  At the same time, I don't think it's enough.  How to be an effective leader also has to do with acquiring the skills to be one.  Having people naturally defer to you is great.  The difference is can you get people to follow you?  Some of that, I believe, is acquired.



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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/26/2011 10:57:42 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		In my mind I see dominance as just a personality trait with nothing really special about it. If anything, when combined with other, less admirable traits, I think it can make for a very unpleasant human being. Our prisons are full of examples.

A person with leadership skills is also nothing special to me. Much like the dominance, if that person has other traits that are, less than wonderful, they are only leading people wrongly. Consider again the habitants of prisons, gang leaders...... Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, etc... Leaders absolutely, but not the sort I would admire or emulate.

I do believe that domimance, leadership, are personality traits but how that is developed will depend upon external influences. Who the person admires and respects, wishes to emulate. It will depend upon their morals, even their personal needs and desires. How they've learned to discipline themselves.

That all being said,I feel that the skills of leading sucessfully, are what is learned over time and shaped by environment, personal desires, morals..... the things that shape all of us.

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/26/2011 11:49:22 AM   
leadership527


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Status: offline 		I see "leadership" as the civilized version of "dominance". They are tightly related but not exactly one and the same.

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/26/2011 1:31:10 PM   
TotalDiscipline


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quote:

domimance


yes!!! finally

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/27/2011 5:15:07 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		Don't get too excited there dude, it was just a typo. Nothing more, nothing less.

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/27/2011 6:07:43 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
The skill sets involved in BDSM are typically tactile. Those involved in leadership are typically psychological. Presuming one will exist because the other is present is a touch of folly.


very true -- can't really add anything to that. =p

porcelaine -- i agree with you for the most part; it's important that the person's "brand" is complementary to your own. even if he doesn't run for president tomorrow, he has willingness and the natural inclination, plus the judgment to learn to
use the skills effectively. likewise, you have to have the judgment to seek something that really fits. everyone's definition of "experience" is a little different; people change and grow over time, and i don't mind being a part of that.

TotalDiscipline -- good point on the differences of "in the lifestyle" vs. outside. a position at a job may require specific skills, you can't just wander around calling yourself a CEO, but you can do that pretty well with the "Dom" title, plus if you find someone who believes in you, too, there you go.

LadyPact -- i agree, there's a difference when talking about effective leadership, which i think LaTigresse really elaborates on. or really, someone can be a pretty effective leader, i.e. setting out goals and accomplishing them, but other traits make their chosen directions questionable. a dominant person can easily become domineering (generally considered negative =p) or just a flat out asshole depending on whatever outside influences have the greatest effect.




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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/27/2011 9:12:02 AM   
Selectivelight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

The skill sets involved in BDSM are typically tactile. Those involved in leadership are typically psychological. Presuming one will exist because the other is present is a touch of folly.


I agree with this, exactly. Nicely said, NZ.

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 2/28/2011 12:55:50 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

Do you think Dominance and leadership come together, or do you think you can excel at one without excelling at the other? Do you think these are learned skills? What do you think of the concept of a natural leader/natural Dominant? Are leadership skills important to your brand of Dominance? How do these things intertwine and work for you in your relationships/life?

------

on the "F-site which shall not be named" a friend posted that he believed people are born with a desire to lead/dominate, but not inborn skills for it. i guess you learn constructive ways to express each, or you learn which techniques make you a more effective leader.
just something i've been thinking about since reading the friend's post, and thought i'd drag it over here for all you snazzy people to comment on.
For me, i see them as two sides of the same coin, though i can think of all sorts of times when i was a leader of something, even though i'm submissive. There are actually a lot of submissive women who end up in charge of things, so i can see that leadership and Dominance don't ALWAYS come together.



I couldn't care less about leading anyone outside of my home. It just so happens that my career demands I manage people, but I don't take a great deal of pleasure from it - it can be energy sapping with the wrong type of people and life's too short. Although it can be satisfying with people who want to learn, granted. In my experience, the majority of people who enjoy managing at work are people who like power and status as opposed to having a genuine concern for someone's development.

There's a world of difference between leading someone whom you think the world of, and leading a bunch of acquaintances.

In sum, there's a time and a place for leadership and dominance.

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 3/13/2011 8:06:25 AM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		i think i should've clarified, i wasn't talking about leadership in the outside world, i'm talking about within a power-exchange relationship. not everyone who professes dominance and gets into a relationship is a good leader in that relationship, either. people have all sorts of different definitions and different things they're looking for; i guess i'm just wondering how many people think leadership is an important skill to have. 

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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 3/13/2011 8:31:42 AM   
Arpig


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quote:

Don't get too excited there dude, it was just a typo. Nothing more, nothing less.


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RE: Dominance vs. leadership -- skill? - 3/13/2011 9:14:15 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep
i think i should've clarified, i wasn't talking about leadership in the outside world, i'm talking about within a power-exchange relationship... i guess i'm just wondering how many people think leadership is an important skill to have. 

I guess for me I don't get what the outside world does or does not have to do with this. If I am dominant in any context whatsoever then I am also the defacto leader. If I'm the leader and I suck at leading, then we can all expect things to go poorly for everyone involved.


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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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