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RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard - 2/28/2011 6:44:40 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I still don't know much about Alinsky.

I don't know whether my education was lacking or whether this guy was just dredged up in the last few years by people like Beck to create controversy.



For the first, maybe read the thread, and the links that come in to it.

For the second, no reason it can't be both.


That is what is so funny though, the links.

I have read them and all they tell me is this is some obscure person that the right is using to demonize the left.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard - 2/28/2011 7:16:00 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

That is what is so funny though, the links.

I have read them and all they tell me is this is some obscure person that the right is using to demonize the left.




What's really funny, RML, is that using some obscure person to demonize the opposition could be considered a defining characteristic of the Alinsky method.



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RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard - 2/28/2011 7:18:46 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

That is what is so funny though, the links.

I have read them and all they tell me is this is some obscure person that the right is using to demonize the left.




What's really funny, RML, is that using some obscure person to demonize the opposition could be considered a defining characteristic of the Alinsky method.




I asked this before and you never answered.

Did you really ever hear of old Saul before Beck started babbling about him?



(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard - 2/28/2011 7:23:57 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

That is what is so funny though, the links.

I have read them and all they tell me is this is some obscure person that the right is using to demonize the left.




What's really funny, RML, is that using some obscure person to demonize the opposition could be considered a defining characteristic of the Alinsky method.




Or it could be that your common obscure person only knows other obscure persons, and is not privy to the closed circles of the vainglorious elite.

Just offering an alternative credible explanation.

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RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard - 2/28/2011 9:05:02 AM   
luckydawg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Does that sound like a legitimate public meeting?

Or a perversion of the process?


Why would it not be a legitimate public meeting?

Why is Delphi an approved method and Alinsky not?

Why did the author feel he upset?

The obvious intent of the counting-off, I realized later, was to break up groups of friends who might have sat down together, thus virtually ensuring that each "facilitated" group would consist almost entirely of people who had never met.

Isnt this part of the Delphi method... just a smaller scale? I mean, if people coming in are friends, then utilizing the Delphi method, which the author seems to approve of, would be useless, no?



You really should read better, the author was quite upset. That was the point of the blog.

It was a way of marginaliizing and de-empowering the participants of public meeting, in order to push a predetermined agenda.

It is a radical tactic.

A perversion of the democratic ideal.



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RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard - 2/28/2011 9:07:34 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I still don't know much about Alinsky.

I don't know whether my education was lacking or whether this guy was just dredged up in the last few years by people like Beck to create controversy.



For the first, maybe read the thread, and the links that come in to it.

For the second, no reason it can't be both.



Sounds like he thinks I have some type of, "allegience" to Beck.
I do not.

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(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard - 2/28/2011 9:12:26 AM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline 		popeye, are you still wasting time talking WITH him.....

Just talk past him, and let's get on with topics.


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RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard - 2/28/2011 12:46:02 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

popeye, are you still wasting time talking WITH him.....

Just talk past him, and let's get on with topics.



Shhh!

Bad puppy.

(in reply to luckydawg)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard - 2/28/2011 12:54:29 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I still don't know much about Alinsky.

I don't know whether my education was lacking or whether this guy was just dredged up in the last few years by people like Beck to create controversy.



For the first, maybe read the thread, and the links that come in to it.

For the second, no reason it can't be both.



Sounds like he thinks I have some type of, "allegience" to Beck.
I do not.


Popeye, it's really astounding how you can come up with these conclusions.

The only thing I was referring to was my lack of knowledge of Alinsky and what you told us was your lack of knowledge about Beck.

But as long as we are on the subject, Beck himself admits to not knowing about Alinsky.

Beck...Saul Alinsky play book -

Edited to add that my favorite part of this video is when Glenn says there is "dangerous talk" coming from the administration while he conveniently adds that he is allowed to say the same things, which apparently have no dangers when he says them.

The 2:15 mark of the video.




< Message edited by rulemylife -- 2/28/2011 1:19:26 PM >

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RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard - 2/28/2011 5:56:34 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I still don't know much about Alinsky.

I don't know whether my education was lacking or whether this guy was just dredged up in the last few years by people like Beck to create controversy.



You're not the one whose education is lacking here, I promise you.



quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

That is what is so funny though, the links.

I have read them and all they tell me is this is some obscure person that the right is using to demonize the left.



Bingo. That's all there is. That's what I keep trying to tell these guys, but you can't tell them a thing once they've decided what they want to believe.

In all my years as a community organizer and political organizer (most of the 90s), I doubt I heard Saul Alinsky referenced in a conversation even  a dozen times - probably less than 10 times, but let's say a dozen just to be generous. Because he just wasn't relevant.

But in the last few months, I've seen him discussed here in P&R by the conservatives far more times than  I heard organizers mention him in the entire decade that I was in the same line of work as he was. Because they'll believe anything they're told to believe, and be terrified of anything they're told to be terrified of.  That's what makes them happy, for some bizarre reason. Fuck it. They can't live in a world that doesn't have a bogeyman under every bed, and if they need Alinsky to be their bogeyman, I'm sure there's nobody who'd find it more hilarious and more gratifying than Saul.


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RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard - 2/28/2011 6:16:53 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

You really should read better, the author was quite upset. That was the point of the blog.

It was a way of marginaliizing and de-empowering the participants of public meeting, in order to push a predetermined agenda.

It is a radical tactic.

A perversion of the democratic ideal.


Yes, the author was quite upset. He kept pointing out that his ideas were not listened too... almost whining. Yet he gave no examples. Could it have been just sour grapes?

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RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard - 2/28/2011 7:05:52 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
I asked this before and you never answered.

Did you really ever hear of old Saul before Beck started babbling about him?




Not only did I answer, RML, you responded to my answer with a dumb crack.

Do you recall if these memory lapses are becoming more frequent?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard - 2/28/2011 10:17:30 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

In all my years as a community organizer and political organizer (most of the 90s), I doubt I heard Saul Alinsky referenced in a conversation even  a dozen times - probably less than 10 times, but let's say a dozen just to be generous. Because he just wasn't relevant.


I believe you, Panda, but I disagree about why his name doesn't come up so often, and usually with some sort of qualifier, when it does. Saul Alinsky wrote his book without the filters being turned on. He says in the introduction that he can't keep doing the all-night conversations with the young idealists forever. "Rules for Radicals" is composed of the things that come up when the true believers gather in the back rooms. Not really for public consumption, and the darker bits, especially when he rationalizes the ethics, separate the pragmatists from the fluffy.

I am not calling him Voldemort. He was a visionary, and right about a great many things, and brilliant in how he condensed and formulated the tricks of the trade into a concise, and fun, volume. I'm not sure what ever happened to my copy. I can remember the last place I lived where it was on the shelf, but that was a long time ago.

His legacy is very much alive. When Michelle Obama reminisces about her husband quoting fundamental Alinsky in her convention speech, please don't tell me he is irelevant to the conversation. (The world as it is, and the world as it should be. HERE at 6:08.)

Now, a common deflection of Alinsky is that his ideas are dated. That may be true right now, but his model called for steep climbs followed by plateaus. The late nights now are spent writing desperate grants, not impassioned manifestos. If it was time for the next steep bit, I'd pick up another copy, even if I do think he's completely wrong in demanding that nothing good can ever be attributed to the opposition. And who knows? A moment might come when that's the way it needs to be.




< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 2/28/2011 10:19:54 PM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: The Alinsky Way - NYC Abortion Billboard - 3/1/2011 12:09:40 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

popeye, are you still wasting time talking WITH him.....

Just talk past him, and let's get on with topics.



LD, true. No threads about Ted Kennedy and the whorehouse rental yet? Perhaps RML could start one!!!

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to luckydawg)
Profile   Post #: 74
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