RE: Is Islam the Problem? (Full Version)

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Politesub53 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (3/12/2011 12:32:42 PM)

No problem here Tweaks, in my view colonialism has to be taken in the context of the times. I wasnt trying to shoot you down, I just get exasperated at times. The Victorian empire was different from the Elizabethan, to use one example. Balfours declaration, ambiguously worded as it was, bore no resemblence to that of British foreign policy dictated to by the events of WW2. David Cesarani didnt allow for that in the article you linked to. I am not sure he should have but it would make things a bit clearer.

My problem with all the quotes about history is this. How far do you go back in time, because if you look deeply enough few come out smelling at roses at some point or the other. Do we set time limits on who done what and when, and if so, what should they be ?



tweakabelle -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (3/12/2011 1:45:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

My problem with all the quotes about history is this. How far do you go back in time, because if you look deeply enough few come out smelling at roses at some point or the other. Do we set time limits on who done what and when, and if so, what should they be ?


Pertinent questions indeed. Historians still rage over the answers. I'd be the last to suggest that I have any definitive answers either. What we can do with some degree of certainty is identify current unresolved issues whose origins lie in colonialism.

Border lines in the ME are largely the product of horse trading between competing Western interests, with little or no input from local people. This has left the Kurds completely stateless; created restive minorities, most notably in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and pre-invasion Iraq; exacerbated sectarian tensions in Lebanon and led to a complex difficult relationship with Syria; installed petty autocrats and tyrants in many States; and is a significant contributing factor to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

That's just a few of the negative effects of colonialism on the region. Please don't think that I'm suggesting colonialism is the sole cause of the dysfunctionality so common in the region. There are many significant local factors too. It is proper, it seems to me, that these matters are identified and addressed by locals, not outsiders. Prof. Kunar's scholarship is part of that project.

Equally, it seems to me, it is proper for the West and Westerners to address those issues we helped generate. This requires re-thinking and a re-calibration of Western attitudes and policies towards the region to reflect local needs and realities, not imperial hangovers, commercial imperatives or the destabilising agenda of the pro-Israeli lobby.



Jonc101 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 12:20:56 PM)


This is the ugly face of Islam we read and hear most about.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2243558/Mother-facing-life-sentence-murdering-son-set-failing-learn-Koran.html

All too common a story as they flood our countries claiming 'asylum'. It's a mental asylum this woman needs!

FJ



mnottertail -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 12:24:13 PM)

Hey, don't spew Mail asswipe all over the boards.  Nobody in any of the possible realities believes any horseshit in the Mail.



Jonc101 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 3:05:00 PM)

Hmm...another newspaper snob I see. Nowadays the Mail gets its news off the same wires as all the 'quality' press. It becomes a matter of choice and editorial comment. It's a nonsense that they just make up stories. You can usually cross check veracity if that's your problem. That's the advantage of having the internet. Learn to use it properly. That's the advantage of having the internet. Learn to use it properly.



Owner59 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 3:10:25 PM)

Adoration for the truth,facts and reality is not snobbery



jlf1961 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 3:21:09 PM)

There are 1.6 Billion Muslims in the world. Best estimates put the number of Islamic terrorists at less than a million.

That is roughly the same percentage of violent fundamentalist christians to the total number of Christians.



Jonc101 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 7:20:30 PM)

Difference is that the Xns are not militantly dedicated to evangelising by sword or bomb! Not all Moslems are either, I know, but a sufficient number are! Abd they only have to be lucky once to bring about another 9/11 or something similar in many different parts of the world.

FJ



jlf1961 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 7:22:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jonc101

Difference is that the Xns are not militantly dedicated to evangelising by sword or bomb! Not all Moslems are either, I know, but a sufficient number are! Abd they only have to be lucky once to bring about another 9/11 or something similar in many different parts of the world.

FJ



Neither are Muslims. Every religion has extremists, that does not make the whole religion wrong or militant.



Jonc101 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 7:27:21 PM)

Frankly as an atheist I couldn't care a damn what religion people worship either. Every cripple has his own way of walking, as the Irish say.

However, I'm damned if I'll tolerate people forcing their religion OR their cultural norms down my throat in my own country.

And once they threaten violence they've made another active enemy out of me!



jlf1961 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 7:31:37 PM)

Gee and I thought the Islamaphobic paranoia was bad in the US.

The majority of Muslims are not forcing their religion down any countries throat. There is no movement to introduce Sharia Law in any non-Muslim country.

Might I suggest you avail yourself to a good psychiatrist?



Jonc101 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 7:39:19 PM)

Obviously someone who doesn't pay attention to creeping Islam. Just look at what's happening across Africa from the Maghreb to Nigeria and Kenya. Transfer your gaze across to Pakistan and Afganistan, hence to Indonesia and the southern Philippines.

It doesn't have to include the whole of Islam, just a few thousand with enough dedication to give their own lives, killing many of the rest.

Try checking out the ambitions of Abu Bakir, currently in an Indonesian prison, and read about the division of the globe into 'mantikis' or regions of Islamic government around the world.

They don't even have to win in this generation, just the striving gets them into paradise and access to those 72 virgins.

Don't Americans have any interest in the rest of the world?

FJ



tazzygirl -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 7:41:47 PM)

72 virgins... sadly no one told them they were men.



naughtynick81 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 7:45:20 PM)

Hey Jon, did you see this?

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/detail/the-sanity-of-islamophobia

57 Muslim countries are pressuring the western world to take away their democracy by making it an international crime to criticize Islam or Mohammed.




Jonc101 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 7:58:33 PM)

Reality is that those countries take support when they see our Govts clamping down on Xn norms like Xmas displays, carols in the park, Xmas trees in town centres etc, all in the name of 'not giving offence' to Moslems!

We're weak and they know it.

Huntington's 'Clash of Cultures' is on the way!

FJ



jlf1961 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 8:06:51 PM)

I am going to let you in on a secret, Christianity has a history of using force to convert people. Charlemagne had over a thousand pagans executed for practicing their religion.

Christians sacked and raped Jerusalem killing thousands until the horses legs waded in blood.

Lets not forget the Inquisition.

The British Empire was built on religious oppression and force, look at what was done to the Aboriginal people in Australia.

And let's not forget the Christians that colonized America and spread across North America, look at what they did, even after the Native Americans were on reservations, children were sent to boarding schools to be "Americanized."

Give it a fucking rest.



Jonc101 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 8:10:36 PM)

That 'history' argument has whiskers on it. Nobody is trying to pretend otherwise about Xnty but that's all in the past. Apart from a few reigious nutters in the US and the bog Irish battling it out in Ulster amongst themselves, it's hundreds of years since Xns tried to win hearts and minds by the sword.
In case you haven't realised it we're in the 21st century now and don't wish to withstand the violence of Islamic revolutions, one of which is underway in Egypt as we write.



jlf1961 -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 8:14:45 PM)

Violence and Christianity is a thing of the past? I guess you have not heard about anti-abortion christians killing abortion doctors and bombing abortion clinics.

Try again



dcnovice -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 8:14:59 PM)

You necroed an almost-two-year-old thread to start another chapter of Islamaphobes Anonymous? Wasn't one enough?



tazzygirl -> RE: Is Islam the Problem? (12/5/2012 8:15:13 PM)

In the case of Catholicism, they dont need to try an convert anymore. They own a massive fortune, tax free bennies galore, hands deep into politicians pockets in virtually every country... and all the sex they can get (to say more about that would be against TOS)



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