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RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:25:40 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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what is a state?


what is a county?


what is a city?


collective bargaining power.  :)

(usually against its own constituency)


51% forces the 49% to do something they do not want to do!


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:29:45 PM   
Sanity


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Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
If the teachers are already striking the kids are already without their precious education, so why not fire them and start from scratch.

Giving in to the outrageous union demands has already led to unsustainable budgets and the brink of bankruptcy, so there is really no choice.


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:31:27 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

Democrats can remain holdouts for that deal.


What You Never Learned from Schoolhouse Rock
Read more: http://www.newsbusters.org/cartoons#ixzz1GAiDRTCI



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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:31:29 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Wouldnt you think part of his budget shortfall is his own fault?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:31:42 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

you equate 'public servant' to 'slave of the taxpayer'.




Here's some reading for you, Eterna.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/01/12/class-war/singlepage



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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:33:27 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Although the Republicans believe they have scored a coup d'etats by passing the collective bargaining piece without the budget-requiring quorum, there really is nothing new that has happened in the balance of power.

The deal has always been: accept the public-sector financial concessions in exchange for no change in the collective bargaining rights.

Democrats can remain holdouts for that deal. Republicans would have to repeal what they passed, not much different than agreeing to the compromise before they passed it. In fact, they can make repeal a precondition to returning.

Actually, the above is true. There were no financial changes in what they passed, no budget changes. What happened was Walker removed the financial part, and just went after the collective bargaining. It does nothing to help with the budget shortfall.

a stale mate seems to still be in effect.



that does not make sense either.

in this state it only takes 4 people to be a quorum.

they might mean equal suffrage?




and what is so bad about that?

the 14th amendment was passed without equal suffrage and no one seems to care about that?






< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/9/2011 9:34:50 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:34:17 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Don’t you think they would have trouble replacing them with competent teachers? You really think teachers will drop their jobs and move to a state that will freeze their wages with no rights?

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:35:54 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Don’t you think they would have trouble replacing them with competent teachers? You really think teachers will drop their jobs and move to a state that will freeze their wages with no rights?

Butch



we do not have teachers here.

we have social indoctrination squads.





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:36:37 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Now on that, Im not sure. I believed they were saying they had to have all republican senators in attendance, and at least one democrat, to have enough people to make a quorum.

Under the Wisconsin state Constitution, each chamber of the legislature needs 3/5 of the members present for votes on budgetary matters. That means 20 Senators. Republicans have only 19.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:38:14 PM   
EternalHoH


Posts: 791
Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline 		A couple of quotes from your link:


"There was a time when government work offered lower salaries than comparable jobs in the private sector but more security and somewhat better benefits. These days, government workers fare better than private-sector workers in almost every area"


"One would think that a “3 percent at 50” retirement would be a good enough deal for most people. Most workers in the private sector would probably jump at such an opportunity. But many public safety officials aren’t satisfied with a system that allows them to retire with 90 percent or more of their final year’s pay at young ages."



You notice a theme here?  The private sector got screwed out of similar perks by their corporate bosses, so now apparently its the public sector's turn. 

Its a pity party being held by the "new poor" of the private sector.

They got the wrong enemy in their gun sights.

Is it the public sector's fault that the private sector was first sold on the idea of a steak dinner that turned out to be a popcorn fart all along?





< Message edited by EternalHoH -- 3/9/2011 9:46:15 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:41:32 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Unsustainable pay and benefit packages is a problem across the nation taz, Wisconsin isnt an anomaly.

Look at Californias ongoing public unions disaster, for example. Its already driven california so deep into the hole that there may be no hope other than bankruptcy and starting over, cancelling pensions and the whole nine yards. Something has to give, before everything breaks. The standard Dem answer is raise taxes until every business goes broke and the last wealthy individual has left the state, but thats not a real solution.

Cutting some of these outrageous compensation packages is. 

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:42:50 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Now on that, Im not sure. I believed they were saying they had to have all republican senators in attendance, and at least one democrat, to have enough people to make a quorum.

Under the Wisconsin state Constitution, each chamber of the legislature needs 3/5 of the members present for votes on budgetary matters. That means 20 Senators. Republicans have only 19.



Its just a fucking piece of paper!

we also have

ARTICLE 1
SECTION 14. All lands within the state are declared to be allodial, and feudal tenures are prohibited. Leases and grants of agricultural land for a longer term than fifteen years in which rent or service of any kind shall be reserved, and all fines and like restraints upon alienation reserved in any grant of land, hereafter made, are declared to be void.

allodial means NO PROPERTY TAXES and we ALL PAY PROPERTY TAXES!

Its just a fucking piece of paper!




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/9/2011 9:43:32 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:43:00 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
The likeliest scenario is that most of the teachers would go back to work in the same classroom they had abandoned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Don’t you think they would have trouble replacing them with competent teachers? You really think teachers will drop their jobs and move to a state that will freeze their wages with no rights?

Butch


< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/9/2011 9:49:10 PM >

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:45:17 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		HERE is a good link to read... it is one of many that will confirm its facts.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to EternalHoH)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:47:38 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		yeh instead of doing it right and abolishing the public indoctrination system altogether

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The likeliest scenario is that most of the teachers would likely go back to work in the same classroom they had abandoned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Don’t you think they would have trouble replacing them with competent teachers? You really think teachers will drop their jobs and move to a state that will freeze their wages with no rights?

Butch



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:47:38 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		140 million in tax cuts... without a way to make up the shortfall they were already projecting. Not very fiscally sound to me.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:49:37 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Its just a fucking piece of paper!


If that were true, then why didnt they just vote without the last person? Why not have all the republican senators vote on it and pass it into law?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:50:32 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		You wish! Well it's not going to be that easy. All of them  Republicans are going to be recalled, especially Mr. Walker. And people in Wisconsin, hopefully the country, will not vote Republican for a generation. And you will have Gov. Walker to think it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

FR

Stalemate broken. They strike, they get fired, and the whole pension problem goes away. There are plenty of school districts that have laid off young teachers that would love a crack at those jobs, even if they do have to take a sustainable benefits package, and you can clear 20-40% deadwood out of any public works dept, anywhere, anytime. Most likely, the ones making the most noise will be coming from that group anyway.

What part of "public servant" are we not clear on?

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:50:39 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

HERE is a good link to read... it is one of many that will confirm its facts.

Butch


care to point out the FACTS?  I did not see any


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining - 3/9/2011 9:52:11 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
It is if youre trying to attract business and grow the economy, which that strategy beats the Dem alternative (driving out business and choking the economy) every time its tried.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

140 million in tax cuts... without a way to make up the shortfall they were already projecting. Not very fiscally sound to me.


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 60
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